PEQ available in CS4953xx/CS4970x4

[bootman]

Keith, is the 11-band PEQ available in all 7 channels in Emotiva AVPs using this DSP?
(I listed the two Cirrus DSP that have PEQ not quite sure which one Emotiva uses in their products.)

[KeithL]

The UMC-200 has 11 bands of PEQ on each of the main channels (front left and right, front center, left and right surround).
There are three bands on the sub channel, but no EQ on the rear surrounds (where it is less critical).

The PT-7030 has ten bands on each main channel and, I believe, 4 bands on the sub.

Jun 5, 2013 13:24:34 GMT -5 bootman said:

Keith, is the 11-band PEQ available in all 7 channels in Emotiva AVPs using this DSP?
(I listed the two Cirrus DSP that have PEQ not quite sure which one Emotiva uses in their products.)

[bolle]

Hi Keith,

is there any technical reason for no EQ bands on the UMC-200 for the back surrounds and only 3 bands for the subwoofer? Or is this an artificial limitation by Emotiva, perhaps to make greater differences between the different levels of processors?

Just curious, thanks in advance!

[bootman]

Can you tell us which product uses which DSP?

[KeithL]

The fact that the rear surrounds don't have EQ is mostly due to a technical limitation (it has to do with the available data and program storage space). Since the rear surrounds only ever contain ambience information anyway, having level control for them is important, but having EQ for them was given a low priority. (We might be able to squeeze it into a later firmware revision, but no promises.) As for the sub; having more than three bands of PEQ for a frequency range that narrow would have little benefit anyway. Because of the way a PEQ works, even three bands of PEQ are plenty for anything you're likely to encounter with a sub. [In the old days, two bands of PEQ were considered sufficient for the entire audio band.]

Jun 5, 2013 14:10:22 GMT -5 bolle said:

Hi Keith,

is there any technical reason for no EQ bands on the UMC-200 for the back surrounds and only 3 bands for the subwoofer? Or is this an artificial limitation by Emotiva, perhaps to make greater differences between the different levels of processors?

Just curious, thanks in advance!

[saarg]

Jun 5, 2013 13:53:44 GMT -5 KeithL said:

The UMC-200 has 11 bands of PEQ on each of the main channels (front left and right, front center, left and right surround).
There are three bands on the sub channel, but no EQ on the rear surrounds (where it is less critical).

The PT-7030 has ten bands on each main channel and, I believe, 4 bands on the sub.

Jun 5, 2013 13:24:34 GMT -5 bootman said:

Keith, is the 11-band PEQ available in all 7 channels in Emotiva AVPs using this DSP?
(I listed the two Cirrus DSP that have PEQ not quite sure which one Emotiva uses in their products.)

It would be less confusing if it was better explained on the product page which channels have PEQ. Since there is no ISO standard for defining what a main channel is, it will be interpreted different from person to person
Since it is a 7.1 processor I believed that the 7+1 channel is the main ones

So the PT-7030 also lack PEQ on the rear surrounds? If I interpret your description of main channels correctly?

[srrndhound]

Jun 5, 2013 13:24:34 GMT -5 bootman said:

Keith, is the 11-band PEQ available in all 7 channels in Emotiva AVPs using this DSP?
(I listed the two Cirrus DSP that have PEQ not quite sure which one Emotiva uses in their products.)

I thought I saw both in there. Lonny stated as much: "the CS495314 which is driven by the CS497024."

Cirrus states: >>HD Decoder are only available on the CS4970x4 DSPs.<< So that would make it the main "codec" decoder. That implies the CS495314 is for the audio processing, like surround modes and EQ.

Just my guess.

[kurtman]

Keith, I have a question, is there any advantage of having two center channels ? same center speaker , same mono block amps one for each speaker, this is my first time on the pro boards thank you Kurtman.

[AudioHTIT]

Jun 8, 2013 10:48:23 GMT -5 kurtman said:

Keith, I have a question, is there any advantage of having two center channels ? same center speaker , same mono block amps one for each speaker, this is my first time on the pro boards thank you Kurtman.

You should probably start a new thread, maybe under speakers. This thread is about the surround chip's capabilities and is not necessarily a direct line to Keith.

I'll just say that I use double centers, one above and one below the display, it creates a phantom image in the center of the screen. I like it, but start a new thread, you'll probably get other opinions. Oh, and welcome to the lounge Kurtman.

[KeithL]

(This really should have its own thread, but I think it's a pretty simple answer.) To me, there is almost never a benefit to dual centers. The only reason I can see to do it is if the center position is occupied (say your TV sits dead center and there's no room above or below it). In that case, I would prefer to have a small center on each side of the screen than to have a single one on one side (which would be asymmetrical). This could also work out well, as AudioHTIT suggests, with one above and one below. However, given the choice, I would far prefer to have one, close to the center, vertically and horizontally, than either of those options.

Jun 8, 2013 10:48:23 GMT -5 kurtman said:

Keith, I have a question, is there any advantage of having two center channels ? same center speaker , same mono block amps one for each speaker, this is my first time on the pro boards thank you Kurtman.

[Absolute]

1. The Parametric EQ in the UMC-200, is it manually adjustable?
2. Emo-Q (auto) is using that PEQ right?
3. The Back surround channels (#6 & #7), aren't part of the mains?
4. Technical, or financial limitation, bit of both? ...Someone said "mostly" technical.
5. The UMC-200 instruction manual, it doesn't indicate that you cannot equalize the back surround channels?
6. The headphone 'channel', does it get his own EQ? ...And depending of the audio surround mode you select?

Thank you very much.

[DYohn]

The only technical reason to use multiple center channels is if the listening area is large, such as a 20-seat or larger theater, and you need to maximize the dispersion field.

[Absolute]

Should the multiple center channels all equalize the same, or differently?

[Absolute]

Sorry; "... all be equalized the same".

[AudioHTIT]

Since you only have one center channel, it's more of a theoretical question (though you could use two separate amp channels and eq between the preamp and amp). You could argue that each position in a room should have a unique EQ, but the speakers are equalized as a pair and the result seems to be reasonably flat. This seems to work in my room with identical center speakers that are equidistant to the primary listening position. My goal was to try and simulate the sound of a speaker behind a transparent projection screen, your goal may be different.

[Absolute]

Yes, I only have one center channel speaker. But still was wondering when using more than one if both should be equalized the same or differently because of their different locations, and the sound coming to your ears from those two different locations.
...Very valid question I believe.

And sorry for the off-topic subject. It came about because there was a good mention from an above member, and the center channel speaker (or two of them) is/are still a "main" channel that is 'parametrically' equalized (PEQ) using one of them Cirrus Logic DSP chip.

[KeithL]

Offhand, I don't know of any pre/pro (or receiver) that has separate outputs for two separate center channel speakers - so you would be talking about an external equalizer. I can't imagine it would be worth the extra bother (and extra stuff in the signal path). The various surround sound standards refer to "a center channel" and not "two center channels".

Jun 11, 2013 23:11:46 GMT -5 Absolute said:

Yes, I only have one center channel speaker. But still was wondering when using more than one if both should be equalized the same or differently because of their different locations, and the sound coming to your ears from those two different locations.
...Very valid question I believe.

And sorry for the off-topic subject. It came about because there was a good mention from an above member, and the center channel speaker (or two of them) is/are still a "main" channel that is 'parametrically' equalized (PEQ) using one of them Cirrus Logic DSP chip.

[Absolute]

Yamaha, Anthem, Meridian, ...

Lexicon, McIntosh, Classe?

[Absolute]

Bryston?

[KeithL]

Answers inline......

Jun 10, 2013 14:16:58 GMT -5 Absolute said:

1. The Parametric EQ in the UMC-200, is it manually adjustable?

Yes, the UMC-200 has both auto-EQ (EmoQ) and manual EQ.
(You can choose to use the manual EQ, or the EmoQ EQ, and you can manually tweak the EmoQ EQ adjustments - within limits.)

2. Emo-Q (auto) is using that PEQ right?

EmoQ has its own "EQ bank" - and has more extensive capabilities than the manual EQ (EmoQ results live on their own page, and are not directly comparable to the settings you can do with the manual EQs).

3. The Back surround channels (#6 & #7), aren't part of the mains?

In this context, no. The rear surrounds on the UMC-200 do NOT have PEQs.

4. Technical, or financial limitation, bit of both? ...Someone said "mostly" technical.

Both correct. The software and information storage banks on the UMC-200 do not currently have "room" to do EQ for the rear surrounds. This was not considered important because the rear surrounds deliver almost entirely ambience information anyway - and so matching them in terms of level is important, as is getting the correct distance settings, but not having PEQ for them isn't much of a loss.

5. The UMC-200 instruction manual, it doesn't indicate that you cannot equalize the back surround channels?

Again, we didn't consider it important.... (we will - and do - cheerfully tell anybody who asks )

6. The headphone 'channel', does it get his own EQ? ...And depending of the audio surround mode you select?

The headphone channel does NOT get its own EQ.
The headphones are fed a copy of the "mix down" signal, and the UMC-200 doesn't see them as "separate channels".

Thank you very much.