how often does emotiva have these sales?

[Priapulus]

If everything is on a 10% discount when on sale, and it is on sale 40% of the time; then the 10% off price is the defacto price for everyone (except for the few that are unaware of the sales cycles.

However, all vendors have sales, because sales are useful. During the slow season to boost sales; to generate interest in a product or the company, or to move slow/discontinued products.

I understand why EMO deciding to discontinue their regular sales, as it just cannibalizes regular prices (though I hope they don't start the new policy until 2014 so I can get my XPA-2). I expect they will discover it is useful to have some limited sales, for the reasons suggested above; I hope so...

[stiehl11]

Sept 3, 2013 20:43:07 GMT -5 Dan Laufman said:

Hi guys,
Enjoy the sales this year, as this is coming to an end.

Beginning in 2014, Emotiva wil not be offering sale prices on our products.

We feel the same as you do. Sales just make everyone sit on the fence until the next one, and they guys that didn't purchase at the sale price resent us.

So, be aware that this change of policy is coming. Our prices are already so reasonable, there is really no need for a sale. We will, of course, be keeping our Upgrade For Life program, but other then that, we will not offer price reductions as a matter of course.

Cheers,
Big Dan

Maybe introductory price/sale for new gear hitting the cart (thinking ERC-3)?!?

[chicagorspec]

Sept 3, 2013 21:03:00 GMT -5 Dan Laufman said:

Jason and I are good friends and we have spoken about this many, many times... I believe he is correct in this regard.

The best, most highly valued brands do not go on sale all of the time. Think apple, Bose, Cartier, Rolex, etc.

Our prices are very fair and I want people to purchase with confidence, and with the feeling that they have not been "ripped off" by missing a sale.

IMHO this is a great move for the standard approach to A stock items, and I agree with whomever suggested that "sales" don't make sense for new product intros, as that's opposite the market forces of supply and demand...early adopters tend to be willing to pay a higher price when the supply is still building.

Still would be cool to have B stock, scratch 'n' dent and discontinued item sales on the Lounge once in a while when conditions warrant. Overall, Bravo concerning this decision Big Dan.

[burn]

Sept 3, 2013 21:03:00 GMT -5 Dan Laufman said:

Jason and I are good friends and we have spoken about this many, many times... I believe he is correct in this regard.

The best, most highly valued brands do not go on sale all of the time. Think apple, Bose, Cartier, Rolex, etc.

Our prices are very fair and I want people to purchase with confidence, and with the feeling that they have not been "ripped off" by missing a sale.

It is a fair enough position but one that I personally won't respond to. I have Apple products because I needed to use them for work, but I find their marketing strategy and attempts to manufacture the perceptions of their products obnoxious. I find less successful companies who try to chase Apple style branding even less charming. But that is me.

I would, however, suggest that the psychological justifications for "splurging because it is a good sale" drives a handsome percentage of the buyers of high value entry level gear like Emo.

Maybe Emotiva's next phase will be as "vanity" gear with logos everywhere, (I mean, the prices have only been going up after all) but I suspect I will be curiously watching from the sidelines.

In the end, I will blame the people who genuinely wanted to buy the clock.

Cheers.

[LCSeminole]

I have never waited on a sale with Emotiva. If it just so happened that it was on sale then great(I'll be honest here and this is just my opinion as everyone has one), but Emotiva's prices are extremely affordable to begin with, not to mention they have different levels of gear. There are other options with Emotiva, if a customer really wants to stay with Emotiva there is always B-Stock or used but still warrantied gear as well, thus the sky won't be falling anytime soon.

[KeithL]

As someone already commented:
If you have sales all the time, then the sale price becomes the de-facto "actual price".

We run sales; people know we run sales; so, when a new item comes out at full price everybody waits to buy it until it's on sale; so we have to release items at "special introductory prices".
It goes around and around when the fact is that most people buy the item at a certain price.

It' s bit like the diamond store, where "everything in 40% off all the time"; and nothing EVER sells for "full price".

After a while, it gets annoying to "have to wait for a sale" to buy something, and buying something NOT on sale feels a bit like paying EXTRA.
Wouldn't you rather just buy it for a great price when YOU want to buy it, instead of waiting for a "sale"?

Unfortunately, so many people have become so obsessed with the idea of sales that having sales has become a "marketing gimmick".
(Studies have shown that sales for an item will go up if you advertise it as "on sale"; even if you keep the price the same; it's the WORD "sale".)

[cawgijoe]

I think having an occasional sale, say around Christmas does generate interest and move product. As consumers we are all looking for a good deal. Not all people will be willing to wait a whole year to save 10 - 15%. So this should not drag down sales for the rest of the year.

I understand that the current selling model has too many sales and that folks know they can just wait. So unless you really need something, you just wait.

Having sales on slower moving or older products is also a good thing. Get it out of the warehouse, generate cash, and bring the new in.

I understand that the products are a great deal and value even at full price, but everyone wants a bone thrown at them to make them feel better about spending the money.

You even see this in sales of other products such as appliances. We bought a Samsung washer and dryer set about a year ago from HHGregg. The prices were consistent across the different vendors, but what pushed us to buy from them were the half price pedestal stands.

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that it always feels good to get something extra no matter what you buy.

Sorry for the rambling thoughts!

[PGT]

It is marketing spin but only because its overused. If you sell at price X, then have set sale events only once or twice per year, there's tangible urgency in buying at the better price. If you need a good example, look at REI and their annual sale over Memorial Day. Generally, 10% off storewide and its the only time they do it.

Another good example would be the EmoFest pricing. It apparently was well worth travelling to Franklin for killer deals during this annual event in previous years. Outside Area 51, and with a few exceptions, the pricing I saw this year was basically close to the "sale" price on the website (after factoring in shipping of TN state tax if cash/carry).

Actual value and perceived value are powerful tools in the marketplace.

[clearear]

When I was in the market for a ss preamp the USP-1 was in the running along with others both new and used. When it went on sale it clinched the deal for me. Just saying.

[TKO]

My own personal opinion, FWIW

Emotiva should continue to have sales linked to their business situation/strategy and to take advantage of holidays and/or events, such as:

1) US Thanksgiving/XMas/CEDIA/
2) when (too much) surplus stock is on hand
3) when products are being phased out or when versions are being refreshed
4) EMOFest
5) introductory/new models

    and for some of these perhaps to add bundles like they did with the Sherbourn amp/AVR bundle.  They are a business and a sale is a proven method for enabling certain key business objectives (e.g. reducing surplus or end-of-line stock).

    Then offer some price protection for new products (e.g. if purchased within the last 7 days prior to the sale price). 

    Cheers.

Tony

[burn]

Sept 16, 2013 9:30:22 GMT -5 KeithL said:

As someone already commented:
If you have sales all the time, then the sale price becomes the de-facto "actual price".

We run sales; people know we run sales; so, when a new item comes out at full price everybody waits to buy it until it's on sale; so we have to release items at "special introductory prices".
It goes around and around when the fact is that most people buy the item at a certain price.

It' s bit like the diamond store, where "everything in 40% off all the time"; and nothing EVER sells for "full price".

After a while, it gets annoying to "have to wait for a sale" to buy something, and buying something NOT on sale feels a bit like paying EXTRA.
Wouldn't you rather just buy it for a great price when YOU want to buy it, instead of waiting for a "sale"?

Unfortunately, so many people have become so obsessed with the idea of sales that having sales has become a "marketing gimmick".
(Studies have shown that sales for an item will go up if you advertise it as "on sale"; even if you keep the price the same; it's the WORD "sale".)

Yeah, but phrased like that, this sounds like it is just another permanent price increase. (Unless I missed something and Emo is dropping everything to their "sale" price, which would seem to defeat the purpose)

Last year we got a bump, fair enough. Gen2 gets a bump, fair enough. No more sales, effectively a bump. Not saying these aren't completely warranted prices increases, but they add up and take the zing out of the "bang for the buck" reputation.

There was an interesting conversation over on Bluray dot com about the XMC price increase, where people were talking about how the 500 increase "felt" like a lot more than it was, and how it had crossed an invisible line in their heads about whether they felt they would still want to buy it. It was calm and rational, but interesting.

I'm just saying that there is another side to the coin when it comes to trying to manipulate your customers' perceptions of value.

*manipulate sounds like a stronger word that it is
*there is still plenty of Emo Bang for Buck, I know

[stiehl11]

I own several pieces of Emo gear; some used, some brand new. You can always find less expensive, but is it better? You can always find better, but is it worth the cost? To quote Cheech Martin in From Dusk til Dawn; "if you can find better... (get) it!"

[GreenKiwi]

Sept 16, 2013 9:30:22 GMT -5 KeithL said:

As someone already commented:
If you have sales all the time, then the sale price becomes the de-facto "actual price".

We run sales; people know we run sales; so, when a new item comes out at full price everybody waits to buy it until it's on sale; so we have to release items at "special introductory prices".
It goes around and around when the fact is that most people buy the item at a certain price.

It' s bit like the diamond store, where "everything in 40% off all the time"; and nothing EVER sells for "full price".

After a while, it gets annoying to "have to wait for a sale" to buy something, and buying something NOT on sale feels a bit like paying EXTRA.
Wouldn't you rather just buy it for a great price when YOU want to buy it, instead of waiting for a "sale"?

Unfortunately, so many people have become so obsessed with the idea of sales that having sales has become a "marketing gimmick".
(Studies have shown that sales for an item will go up if you advertise it as "on sale"; even if you keep the price the same; it's the WORD "sale".)

I couldn't agree more. Set the prices where you need to set them and let us buy when we want/have the desire to buy. The price doesn't need to be 5-10% above your target, so that you can lower it by 10% when it's on sale. People don't have to wait for a sale, or feel dumb for having paid extra.

It will take a while for people to get used to not having sales, but then it will be better.

[Golden Ear]

There is a reason why company place their product on "sale" to move their product faster even for less margin than having those sitting on the shelf and not generating revenue for a while.

[phil1975m]

Some interesting posts about sales and prices.
Sometimes I wonder if our American friends realize what a bargain the Emotiva products are.
Here in the UK, something of similar specification would be twice the price if not more.
For example I'm interested in the XPA-5..I've been looking at a comparable amps your looking at £2000-£2500, which is Nearly $4000.

So the price structure Emotiva have in place is fantastic, even without sale prices.

[d1sturb3d]

^ plus the fact they can demo them at home for 30 days without commitment..will never happen here.

[4Play]

You must remember this... Everyone does not have disposable income on hand at any given time. My wife has been out of a job for over two years now with no hope in sight. When you go from a two income family down to just one. Those who do not have no idea how tough it can be at times.

With that said and with sales ending starting in 2014, the only way I will be able to afford new Emotiva will be if they will allow/offer some type of payment plan. That has been the only was I was able to purchase both UPA-1 amps, the USP-1 preamp, and a turntable that will be arriving one day this week. To those who agreed and helped me purchase their components, I cannot thank you enough for your generosity that afforded me the oppportunity to own Emotiva. If this means the only way I can afford Emotiva is via the Emporium, then so be it. I am not ashamed of buying used on reliable, quality products. Whatever the case may be, I am a Emotiva fan for life.


EDIT: 

Sometimes I wonder if our American friends realize what a bargain the Emotiva products are. Here in the UK, something of similar specification would be twice the price if not more. For example I'm interested in the XPA-5..I've been looking at a comparable amps your looking at £2000-£2500, which is Nearly $4000.

Yes, we do understand that Emotiva is a bargain. The difference between you and me is the currency rate between our two countries. When I buy Emotiva at MSRP, you are getting the same product cheaper than me. The only difference is the import tax, which neither of us has any control over. When it comes to the purchase price itself, you are still getting a better deal than we are.

[KeithL]

Well, now, isn't ALL advertising or marketing "an attempt to manipulate people's perception of value"?

Personally, I HATE sales, and promotions, and rebates, and coupons.
When I want (or need) something, I don't want to wait for a sale, or use a coupon, or get a rebate.
And when I want to eat dinner, I don't want to save $2 by buying what's on sale today, or the lunch special.
All that stuff really does is prevent me from simply buying what I want when I want it.

Actually, that's not strictly true.
The coupon (and your clipping and saving of it) helps to psychologically "lock you in" to that purchase and store.
And a certain percentage of people forget to mail in the rebate (or bugger it up), and so end up paying more.
And the scheduling of the sale helps them decide when you will buy something.

All of those things I mentioned are ways of manipulating you (and I).

The simple reality is that we have a production cost, and a margin, and so a price.
And all that good stuff determines what we're going to actually charge for it.
And, yes, like someone else said, if it sits in the warehouse long enough, we'll want to clear it out.
And ten years later it'll be on eBay for half that much.
Such is life.

Other than that, it's all "theater" (which is when you pay someone to manipulate you ).
Research has shown, it's the WORD "sale" that gets people to buy stuff.
(If you take something, write the magic word on it, but leave the price the same, more people will buy it.)

If you want to totally avoid being manipulated, then look at the item, look at the price, and buy it if you want it.
(Don't read the adverts, the "s word", the news about prices going up next year....)


As you noted, Emotiva gear is a really good deal.
It works very well, and we sell it for a very good price.
And that should be enough.


I'll leave you with a really sinister story about manipulation.

Did you ever go to the toy store right before Christmas and wonder why the popular toy seems not only to be out of stock, but sometimes isn't even available yet?

Let's say you promise your kid the new super cool toy they're advertising for Christmas ("here in time for the holidays for only $299").
But, come Christmas, they aren't on the shelves yet (or the ten that were are long gone).
So, what happens?
Well, first, you have to buy the poor little kid SOMETHING for Christmas - as a consolation prize.
Then, two months later, when the cool toy he really wanted  IS in stock, you buy THAT for him....
(And it's probably not even on sale for Christmas any more.)
After all, you did promise.....

Hmmmmm.......
It almost sounds like you'd have bought less stuff, and spent LESS money, if the toy had been on the shelf when they promised.
Interesting how that worked out so well, now isn't it.

Sept 16, 2013 19:26:54 GMT -5 burn said:

Sept 16, 2013 9:30:22 GMT -5 KeithL said:

As someone already commented:
If you have sales all the time, then the sale price becomes the de-facto "actual price".

We run sales; people know we run sales; so, when a new item comes out at full price everybody waits to buy it until it's on sale; so we have to release items at "special introductory prices".
It goes around and around when the fact is that most people buy the item at a certain price.

It' s bit like the diamond store, where "everything in 40% off all the time"; and nothing EVER sells for "full price".

After a while, it gets annoying to "have to wait for a sale" to buy something, and buying something NOT on sale feels a bit like paying EXTRA.
Wouldn't you rather just buy it for a great price when YOU want to buy it, instead of waiting for a "sale"?

Unfortunately, so many people have become so obsessed with the idea of sales that having sales has become a "marketing gimmick".
(Studies have shown that sales for an item will go up if you advertise it as "on sale"; even if you keep the price the same; it's the WORD "sale".)

Yeah, but phrased like that, this sounds like it is just another permanent price increase. (Unless I missed something and Emo is dropping everything to their "sale" price, which would seem to defeat the purpose)

Last year we got a bump, fair enough. Gen2 gets a bump, fair enough. No more sales, effectively a bump. Not saying these aren't completely warranted prices increases, but they add up and take the zing out of the "bang for the buck" reputation.

There was an interesting conversation over on Bluray dot com about the XMC price increase, where people were talking about how the 500 increase "felt" like a lot more than it was, and how it had crossed an invisible line in their heads about whether they felt they would still want to buy it. It was calm and rational, but interesting.

I'm just saying that there is another side to the coin when it comes to trying to manipulate your customers' perceptions of value.

*manipulate sounds like a stronger word that it is
*there is still plenty of Emo Bang for Buck, I know

[KeithL]

Hmmmm.

But why is that item sitting on the shelf so long?
It is because it is a truly bad product?
Or, maybe, because nobody bought it because they were all waiting for it to go on sale?



But seriously, yes, every once in a while there is a legitimate benefit to clearing out "stale" products.
But, if you look, I'll bet that accounts for a very small percentage of all "sales".
(In fact, many stores seem to order EXTRA merchandise for sales, now don't they.)

Sept 16, 2013 23:01:23 GMT -5 Golden Ear said:

There is a reason why company place their product on "sale" to move their product faster even for less margin than having those sitting on the shelf and not generating revenue for a while.

[snacker]

Sept 17, 2013 11:49:04 GMT -5 KeithL said:

(In fact, many stores seem to order EXTRA merchandise for sales, now don't they.)

Not necessarily, many times it's a set number that the company orders from the vendor and then distributes to the stores.

Now maybe they ship it all to their different locations in equal quantities, or maybe they ship different quantities based on the store trends. Maybe the store gets more after they've sold x amount or maybe not, the other stores could have already taken it. Maybe the manufacturer can only make a certain amount in a given time, and it's less than what companies wish to purchase from them.

If the product doesn't sell well, the company will still ship more to stores because they promised to buy x amount from vendor. Then it sits and they may eventually have to make little or nothing on it to move it out before the next newest thing comes out.