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Post by Chuck Elliot on Sept 15, 2013 12:09:57 GMT -5
I can detect no difference regardless of where I have the A/AB switch.
I usually listen at around 85dB and I'm wondering if the efficiency of my speakers allows the 1Ls to stay in Class A even in the AB position up to some lower level than 35W?
My speakers are around 96 dB/1W/1M.
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Sept 15, 2013 12:15:13 GMT -5
Yes , I believe so. The first 35 watt are class A no matter the switch and you most likely never surpass that wattage, my Klipsch did the same. But oh what a nice tone and sound that amp makes!
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Sept 15, 2013 12:31:13 GMT -5
Yes , I believe so. The first 35 watt are class A no matter the switch and you most likely never surpass that wattage, my Klipsch did the same. But oh what a nice tone and sound that amp makes! I don't thinks so. The 35W is the point it transitions to A/B when in the A position. What I'm wondering is if say the first few W are Class A even in the A/B position? Regardless, they sound just awesome!!!!!!!
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Sept 15, 2013 12:34:09 GMT -5
Good question for Kieth? But I'll bet ten cents I'm rite. He,,He,,
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Sept 15, 2013 12:36:18 GMT -5
I bet the same dime that the switch is the placebo affect!
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Sept 15, 2013 12:44:45 GMT -5
I bet the same dime that the switch is the placebo affect! If this is true, the function must be to turn on the Emotiva Space Heater 'cause with my fans they run ice cold in A/B, but pretty warm in Class A.
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Sept 15, 2013 12:50:58 GMT -5
The class A is not a separate unit, rite? My fans blew forward and I never noticed a temp change, could just be me. I've seen your fan build, Nice job and then the C12 s went on sale and I he'd room above my -1Ls to use them. They are very nice units as well. I highly respect the job you did on your solution though. Nick
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Post by garbulky on Sept 15, 2013 13:36:53 GMT -5
The class A is not a separate unit, rite? My fans blew forward and I never noticed a temp change, could just be me. I've seen your fan build, Nice job and then the C12 s went on sale and I he'd room above my -1Ls to use them. They are very nice units as well. I highly respect the job you did on your solution though. Nick The XPA-1 L does 35 watts only with the class A switch. In AB it does less, likely about as much as other emo amps - I have no idea. The class A is not a separate unit. The switch simply transitions the point when it goes from class A to class AB.
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Sept 15, 2013 14:05:31 GMT -5
Lesson learned, Big thankyou! Will the XPA-1 Gen 2 have a space heater switch as well?
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Post by Dark Ranger on Sept 16, 2013 17:15:09 GMT -5
Hi Chuck, I wrote about this same thing when I first listened to my XPA-1L back in March. I could not detect any difference between "high-bias" and "low-bias" at my normal listening volumes. None at all. And it's not like I was using a $50 speaker from Best Buy. The only differences I heard manifested while comparing the 1L to my other amps, the UPA-500, XPA-200, and mini-X. I have not yet been able to discern an improvement when just switching the toggle between "A" and "A/B." Because the XPA-1L runs noticeably warmer than my other amps even when switched to A/B mode, I have a theory that the amp is biased a little higher than other Emotiva amps. In other words, even when running in "low-bias" mode aka switched to Class A/B, it's possible that the amp hasn't actually left Class A yet if one is running high-efficiency speakers with low listening levels. With your speakers (96 dB/1 watt/1 meter), that may be the case considering your reasonable listening levels. You didn't say how far away the listening position was, though. I suppose one could test this theory with lower efficiency speakers combined with higher listening levels. However, the experiment still assumes one could actually hear the difference when the amp is running in Class A versus A/B. One of these days I'd like to try the test just for fun. I think Keith summed it up rather well, and I agree with him on this. In context, he was comparing the XPA-2 with the 1L, but it still fits here. Emphasis mine: I'll make a blanket statement - and totally muddy the water To anybody who can hear a difference, the XPA-1L in Class A mode will sound better (when compared to itself in Class A/B mode, OR to the XPA-2); but the difference will be subtle. The annoying thing is that the XPA-1L sounds so good in Class A/B mode that many people can't hear the difference when you switch to Class A mode anyway (I'll admit it: on most days, with most speakers and rooms, that includes me). HOWEVER, I've never heard anybody say that Class A sounds worse; either you'll like it better, or you won't notice a difference.
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Post by tweed on Sept 16, 2013 18:37:12 GMT -5
I must say that I have not noticed a big difference between the A and A/B modes soundwise, it is just a sweet sounding amp.
My speakers are efficent as well(94db)so this may play into the equation.
I'm looking at it this way...summertime here in CA it's alot of A/B and during the winter I'll utilize the A mode space heater funtion more ;-)
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Post by Dark Ranger on Sept 16, 2013 18:58:39 GMT -5
Oh, I completely agree. It's a fantastic sounding amplifier in either mode. I, too, have been using a lot of A/B as well thanks to legendary Florida summers. That said, I still have a big, wet kiss waiting for Lonnie since he gave us the option to run it according to our preference instead of being "forced" to run in "space heater" mode. I'll be playing around with Class A more in a couple of months once I "supercharge" my main speakers with a soon-to-be-release DIY upgrade package. Oh, and I'll be purchasing two more XPA-1Ls. I love this amp.
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Post by leonski on Sept 25, 2013 20:08:19 GMT -5
I'm thinking 4 of these guys and BiAmp my Magnepan MG1.6s.... I'll have the electrician run ANOTHER line to my stereo and so I'll have 2 dedicated 20 amp lines....one for EACH amp and use the house line for everything else, which is TV, DAC, Small Dish, and my PS3. All of the house line stuff goes thru a Panamax power conditioner while the low current / digital stuff is thru a 400va isolation transformer.
I'll leave 'the switch' in A/B for the first couple hundred hours at least. In the Winter, I'd expect the additional heat kicked out in 'A' will help warm the house.
I'll try to get a true RMS voltmeter so I can estimate power to the speakers. But again, that'll have to wait for later.
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Post by garbulky on Sept 25, 2013 21:24:18 GMT -5
I'll be playing around with Class A more in a couple of months once I "supercharge" my main speakers with a soon-to-be-release DIY upgrade package. Oh, and I'll be purchasing two more XPA-1Ls. I love this amp. What do you mean by DIY upgrade? BTW, exciting news about the XPA-1 L's. I would be curious to hear your thoughts vs the xpa-200 when you get stereo monoblocks in. It's an upgrade path I'm considering too.
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Post by Golden Ear on Sept 25, 2013 21:33:17 GMT -5
I can detect no difference regardless of where I have the A/AB switch. I usually listen at around 85dB and I'm wondering if the efficiency of my speakers allows the 1Ls to stay in Class A even in the AB position up to some lower level than 35W? My speakers are around 96 dB/1W/1M. There is a possible why you can't hear the difference including how good is your hearing, how well your brain translate these frequencies and if your associated gear are very revealing.
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Sept 25, 2013 23:19:24 GMT -5
I can detect no difference regardless of where I have the A/AB switch. I usually listen at around 85dB and I'm wondering if the efficiency of my speakers allows the 1Ls to stay in Class A even in the AB position up to some lower level than 35W? My speakers are around 96 dB/1W/1M. There is a possible why you can't hear the difference including how good is your hearing, how well your brain translate these frequencies and if your associated gear are very revealing. Thanks for asking about my hearing, brain and equipment! I think I'll restate my original post in different words. If the XPA-1L stays in Class A regardless of the switch setting for the first few watts, let's say 5W, then with high efficiency speakers I don't think I would expect to hear any difference at the levels I listen at. I've just been trying to find out what that wattage level is out of curiosity. Regardless, I am extremely pleased with these amps!
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Post by Dark Ranger on Sept 25, 2013 23:46:06 GMT -5
I think I'll restate my original post in different words. If the XPA-1L stays in Class A regardless of the switch setting for the first few watts, let's say 5W, then with high efficiency speakers I don't think I would expect to hear any difference at the levels I listen at. I've just been trying to find out what that wattage level is out of curiosity. That's exactly what I was talking about in my first post. I'm thinking of contacting Emotiva about this very thing. I'm pretty darn sure it stays in Class A for more than ~1 watt in low-bias mode. If it is indeed several watts, that would explain why some cannot tell the difference (based on listening levels and/or speaker efficiency).
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Post by Dark Ranger on Sept 25, 2013 23:47:41 GMT -5
What do you mean by DIY upgrade? BTW, exciting news about the XPA-1 L's. I would be curious to hear your thoughts vs the xpa-200 when you get stereo monoblocks in. It's an upgrade path I'm considering too. I'll send you a PM about this so I don't derail the thread too much. Give me a few minutes to type it up.
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Post by audiosanity on Oct 5, 2013 23:44:05 GMT -5
...summertime here in CA it's alot of A/B and during the winter I'll utilize the A mode space heater funtion more ;-) My father-in-law has an old Yamaha integrated amp that has the class A switch mode good for up to 10W (I think). That's quite a bit lower than 35W but it already feels like you could cook an omelette on its chassis, so I can imagine how hot 35W will get. I honestly wouldn't spend money on a class A amp nowadays. I suspect the notion that class A is vastly superior to A/B is just a holdover of the very early days of lass A/B amplifiers when they weren't quite right yet.
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Post by leonski on Oct 6, 2013 12:20:03 GMT -5
Audio, The EMO won't run any HOTTER...measured with a thermometer...probably. You can only run transistors so-hot before they cook themselves into junk. What you WILL get is much more HEAT. Where your 10watt (A) yammie may heat up a good sized closet, the EMO will heat up a small den or even a well-insulated living room. A pair of 100 watt 'A' monoblocs running to the same conditions will REALLY put a dent in the AirConditioning bill!
The EMO 'a' amps will come in handy during winter time in the 'great white north'.
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