|
Post by boomzilla on Sept 23, 2013 6:18:47 GMT -5
None of my stand-alone DACs ever had delays. Only the DAC in this Sherbourn. Apparently is isn't just me. I've had other AV preamps (Rotel, Classé, etc.) where this didn't happen. I've also owned a variety of AV receivers (Yamaha, HK, Pioneer, etc.) where I don't remember this happening.
KeithL - Would you comment on this for us please? Does this happen with all Sherbourns? Do the majority of users not care? Will it happen with the XMC-1? What causes this effect on the Sherbourn and can it be fixed?
Thanks - Boomzilla
|
|
|
Post by milt7350 on Sept 23, 2013 6:20:23 GMT -5
Since my Sherbourn is brand new I'm suspecting that I have the 14 firmware myself. It doesn't really matter per KiethL because the ONLY thing that changed in 14 was how the room correction results got reported. It wouldn't change the song delay. I'm running the TOSLINK output from my Airport Express into the Sherbourn. That damned one-second delay happens at the start of EVERY song, and has since I first turned the unit on. I've run in both "Direct" and non-Direct modes - No difference. I know the issue is not caused by upstream equipment because when I use my Jolida DAC, this doesn't happen. The cause is the Sherbourn. That first second is really important for some songs. If this doesn't change, I'll be selling a Sherbourn 7020 SOON. Now that I retested with closer attention to 7020a status display through TOSLINK and also HDMI, I noticed that it is really almost the start of every track has a little bit delay and an indication of no audio on the screen sometimes during the delay. I agree this is quite a serious issue and I hope there is a firmware for addressing this. I need to correct myself, I think I don't have the one-second delay for every song that your TOSLINK output from the Airport Express had. I did have some delay on first start but it is very quirky and seems to happen to some disc but not other. I think if your issue is reproducible, it is better to report the problem to support directly.
|
|
|
Post by boomzilla on Sept 23, 2013 18:23:21 GMT -5
Sorry, folks -
I just won't let this one go. I have a brand new Sherbourn 7020a processor that skips the first second or so of each and every song that I play via TOSLINK input. This is a MAJOR DEFECT in my opinion. Some others say theirs does the same thing but on an intermittent basis - others say it happens all the time to them too.
WHAT'S THE DEAL?
Have I just bought a $400 boat anchor? I can't use this processor with this defect. I've emailed Sherbourn customer service but had no reply yet.
A very, Very VERY unhappy Boomzilla!
|
|
|
Post by monkumonku on Sept 23, 2013 18:29:13 GMT -5
Have you tried calling Emo and asking them? Why wait for an e-mail or for Keith or someone to respond on the Lounge? The best way would be to call them and that way you can give them immediate feedback on what they say.
|
|
|
Post by deltadube on Sept 23, 2013 18:39:27 GMT -5
Have you tried calling Emo and asking them? Why wait for an e-mail or for Keith or someone to respond on the Lounge? The best way would be to call them and that way you can give them immediate feedback on what they say. yes indeed Monkumonku.. cheers
|
|
|
Post by jdskycaster on Sept 23, 2013 18:50:47 GMT -5
I remember this same complaint from some UMC-1 owners. I thought one of the later firmware updates fixed it though.
|
|
|
Post by boomzilla on Sept 23, 2013 19:09:03 GMT -5
I'm currently out of the country on business & working LONG hours. I'll call them if I can.
|
|
|
Post by brubacca on Sept 23, 2013 19:26:30 GMT -5
My XDA-1 skips the first second of every song when the sampling rate changes...
So when I switch from standard cd rips to 24/96 music I lose the first second.
Maybe the Sherbourn is trying to renegotiate the sampling frequency for every song? Is there any kind of polling or auto-polling setting?
|
|
|
Post by boomzilla on Sept 23, 2013 19:58:19 GMT -5
Not that I've noticed, but when I get home I'll look again.
|
|
|
Post by monkumonku on Sept 23, 2013 20:16:40 GMT -5
I'm currently out of the country on business & working LONG hours. I'll call them if I can. Well you seem to have plenty of time to write stuff in the Lounge.
|
|
|
Post by boomzilla on Sept 23, 2013 20:17:40 GMT -5
Yeah, but customer support isn't open in the evenings.
|
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Sept 24, 2013 8:31:32 GMT -5
Now you you can sympathise with non-US customers when issues come up......
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,937
|
Post by KeithL on Sept 24, 2013 9:39:36 GMT -5
Just a thought, and some clarification... When a DAC receives a "new" signal, it has to lock onto the new signal's sample rate. This is true when a new stream of data starts, and when a new song starts that is at a different sample rate than the old one (which IS the beginning of a new data stream at the new sample rate). This does ALWAYS take a short but finite amount of time - and, yes, some equipment does it a bit quicker than others - and, yes, a pre/pro is doing a lot more stuff than just a DAC, so it takes one a bit longer to lock on. Some time ago there was a patch for the Sherbourn PT-7020a that shortened this acquisition time as much as we could... but it still isn't zero. (We can either mute over this time - in which case you risk losing a split second of music, or we can not mute it - in which case you may get a loud tick or pop.) There are two reasons you usually don't notice it: 1) It is usually a very short amount of time 2) Most creators of digital files are smart enough to put a split second of "digital silence" at the beginning of the track (and you don't notice if a tiny bit gets bitten off) This is true for most CDs themselves, and I suspect that most rippers (and some players) do it as well. (Older rippers were notorious for "blowing the transition" and either biting off parts, or adding junk which was audible as a pop or burst of noise between tracks - modern ones avoid this pretty well.) We're NOT talking about "gapless playback" since there is no possible legitimate reason to care about gapless playback of two tracks of different sample rates (think about it). Tracks on a single album are always at the same sample rate; if you're DJ'ing a serious mix, you're going to have to match levels and other stuff, so you're going to have to adjust things anyway, and, again, you're almost certainly going to end up with the same sample rate throughout. (Not that I would bother personally but) there are also a few pretty easy workarounds you could do if it really bugs you ... 1) If you have a particular digital audio track that always gets a note or two "bitten off", you could insert a few tenths of a second of digital silence at the beginning of it. (And, a proper digital editor can do this without altering any of the bits of the music itself. This is what I would do.) 2) You could create a few short "silence files" - each with a split second of silence at a certain sample rate. (If the first note of a certain 24/96 file gets bitten off when you play it after a 24/44 file, then play a file containing 2/10 of a second of silence at 24/96 after the first file; now the silence file will be the first file at the new sample rate, and who cares if the first tiny bit of it gets bitten off? If you do playlists, you can just "drop" the "transition" file into the few spots where you notice a nibble ) Sorry, folks - I just won't let this one go. I have a brand new Sherbourn 7020a processor that skips the first second or so of each and every song that I play via TOSLINK input. This is a MAJOR DEFECT in my opinion. Some others say theirs does the same thing but on an intermittent basis - others say it happens all the time to them too. WHAT'S THE DEAL? Have I just bought a $400 boat anchor? I can't use this processor with this defect. I've emailed Sherbourn customer service but had no reply yet. A very, Very VERY unhappy Boomzilla!
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Sept 24, 2013 9:56:08 GMT -5
I find if I use the optical digital on my PT-7030 there is none to very minimal delay but HDMI there is a second or 2, I also notice no difference in using the Oppo dac instead of the 7030 dac and by doing so with an analog connection from the Oppo to the 7030 there is no delay. That being said it is frustrating when I pause a movie and then hit play to resume and I have to rewind to hear what I missed in the audio after hitting play, why does the video not have a delay but the audio does, is it that audio is that much more difficult to process ? Chad
|
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Sept 24, 2013 11:59:28 GMT -5
Sorry, folks - I just won't let this one go. I have a brand new Sherbourn 7020a processor that skips the first second or so of each and every song that I play via TOSLINK input. This is a MAJOR DEFECT in my opinion. Some others say theirs does the same thing but on an intermittent basis - others say it happens all the time to them too. WHAT'S THE DEAL? Have I just bought a $400 boat anchor? I can't use this processor with this defect. I've emailed Sherbourn customer service but had no reply yet. A very, Very VERY unhappy Boomzilla! So I hear you decided to get rid of it? I've owned two of Emotiva's AV preamplifiers - the UMC-1 and the Sherbourn 7020a. Both had problems that made me not keep them. Cordially - Boomzilla
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,937
|
Post by KeithL on Sept 24, 2013 13:15:00 GMT -5
Actually, in most instances, the pre/pro pretty much just routes the video to the display (it doesn't "process" it at all), but it does process the audio. And, yes, this does take longer. I find if I use the optical digital on my PT-7030 there is none to very minimal delay but HDMI there is a second or 2, I also notice no difference in using the Oppo dac instead of the 7030 dac and by doing so with an analog connection from the Oppo to the 7030 there is no delay. That being said it is frustrating when I pause a movie and then hit play to resume and I have to rewind to hear what I missed in the audio after hitting play, why does the video not have a delay but the audio does, is it that audio is that much more difficult to process ? Chad
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Sept 24, 2013 14:21:23 GMT -5
Actually, in most instances, the pre/pro pretty much just routes the video to the display (it doesn't "process" it at all), but it does process the audio. And, yes, this does take longer. I find if I use the optical digital on my PT-7030 there is none to very minimal delay but HDMI there is a second or 2, I also notice no difference in using the Oppo dac instead of the 7030 dac and by doing so with an analog connection from the Oppo to the 7030 there is no delay. That being said it is frustrating when I pause a movie and then hit play to resume and I have to rewind to hear what I missed in the audio after hitting play, why does the video not have a delay but the audio does, is it that audio is that much more difficult to process ? Chad Yeah I get what your saying, I guess I meant more locking on to the signal be it the video or audio side, not sure if that is the right word haha. I understand the audio is being processed by the 7030 but it must still have a handshake for the video side as well right ? even to pass it along to the TV, which I'm guessing takes a second or two less CHad
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,937
|
Post by KeithL on Sept 24, 2013 14:37:28 GMT -5
Yup... exactly. Actually, in most instances, the pre/pro pretty much just routes the video to the display (it doesn't "process" it at all), but it does process the audio. And, yes, this does take longer. Yeah I get what your saying, I guess I meant more locking on to the signal be it the video or audio side, not sure if that is the right word haha. I understand the audio is being processed by the 7030 but it must still have a handshake for the video side as well right ? even to pass it along to the TV, which I'm guessing takes a second or two less CHad
|
|
|
Post by Dark Ranger on Sept 24, 2013 17:55:08 GMT -5
So I hear you decided to get rid of it? We all know Boom was going to sell it eventually, even if it had worked perfectly. Now it'll be listed in the Emporium just a little bit sooner. EDIT: I just had a great idea. How about we create a sub-forum in the Lounge Emporium and call it Boomzilla's Bazaar...
|
|