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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2013 22:00:21 GMT -5
Whoop, I hope you don't mind if I post below a photo of the JBL 4430's. They are so gorgeous I drool just looking at a photo of them!  These babies weigh in at a feather weight 175 lbs with a 19 lb magnet on the 15" driver. Your post is a good question. I'm not an expert on the more powerful Emo amps as I own the XPA-5. However, this does get my attention based on specifications. These JBL's are quite efficient and according to JBL will handle up to 2000 watts, short term peak (less than 10 ms). We know nothing about your room size and sound absorption which of course would have a significant effect on how much power you need. Therefore any recommendation is strictly a rough approximation without having more information on your room. I would go for an amp with as low a residual noise level as possible and as much power as you can afford based on your room size. I think a call to Emotiva, like Lonnie or Keith, would be most helpful for the best match for the 4430's. The fact that you say the XPA-2/Gen1 played very loud might mean you were quite happy with the power level. Then you seem to indicate you want some extra power for EQ adjustments. Be careful with dips and peaks in the in-room frequency response (REW). Lowering peaks is fine to level out the FR, but raising dips can be very taxing on the amp. For example leveling a 6 db dip can require 4 times as much power at that point. Tough on the amp especially in the bass range. Based on what we know here and your possible budget I would consider the XPR-1's, XPR-2 or XPA-1's and XPA-2, in that order. I understand the cost of shipping heavy amps and for a smaller room the lower models on my list might be OK. I'll be very interested in what you end up buying and how you like the match. Great speaker!   |
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Post by deltadube on Sept 25, 2013 23:01:11 GMT -5
Thanks for digging that out, Jim. That's quite a bit different than "the XPA-1 would remain SQ champ over the XPR line", as suggested earlier. I have no experience with XPR-2, but had XPA-1s and XPR-1s at the same time, and preferred the XPRs for bass impact and control and what seemed a less fatiguing, easier to listen longer sound. I believe we would all feel that the OP won't go too wrong with either of his proposed choices. Good luck! By Saying "SQ champ" (my words not Lonnie's) I didn't mean to suggest that the XPA-1 was far superior to the XPR line, just that in Lonnie's opinion the XPA-1 sounded slightly better than the XPR amps. I'll see if I can dig up that thread. maybe Lonnie said that before the final xpr product was developed? sure would like to see that..! people that upgrade from xpa 1 say the xpr 1 is better.. they do also say something like the xpa 1 pretty good tho.. cheers |
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Post by garbulky on Sept 27, 2013 16:37:16 GMT -5
Actually I read that on the forums too early on before the XPR's were released that the XPA-1 was meant to be the sound quality champ. Not sure whether it was a member quoting Emo or Emo itself.
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 27, 2013 18:13:24 GMT -5
I wonder how would they sound (both the XPA and XPR)if you drop them from a 10 story building...  |
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Post by novisnick on Sept 27, 2013 18:34:01 GMT -5
I wonder how would they sound (both the XPA and XPR)if you drop them from a 10 story building... $ Cha Ching! 10 stories up you would have to wait for the sound. Then it would be a faint.......... Clunk,,,, Cubang I think! |
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Post by novisnick on Sept 27, 2013 21:28:53 GMT -5
I have now had in my possession, 2 XPR-1s for one day and a total of five listening hours. Pandora, Oppo 103 2 channel and analog DVD and SACD and CD. Also a little FM. I know this is not much time with the Rs but I'm in love. I've been through PA-5 200 the XPA-5 gen 2 I still own and the XPA-1Ls all threw this same beating but over a month period for each amp? Yes class A only as well. God has been good to me. I do not still have them all in my possession any more just what's on my sig. The speakers you have BEG for power! Let me repeat, the Beg for power. As you can see , my Klipsch will sound ok on three AA batteries, they now sound as if I purchased new speakers at 3 or 4 times the price! Fanboy, I sound it but one of my many human faults is that I don't sugar coat things at all. The Fraise "Brutally Blunt " comes to mind. So, I ask you , do you want my opinion? Peace, Nick |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2013 1:46:11 GMT -5
I wonder how would they sound (both the XPA and XPR)if you drop them from a 10 story building... $ Cha Ching! 10 stories up you would have to wait for the sound. Then it would be a faint.......... Clunk,,,, Cubang I think! I think they would both hit the ground at the same time, so it would be one loud boomy sound (but not a standing wave sound). |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 1, 2013 4:36:59 GMT -5
I have now had in my possession, 2 XPR-1s for one day and a total of five listening hours. Pandora, Oppo 103 2 channel and analog DVD and SACD and CD. Also a little FM. I know this is not much time with the Rs but I'm in love. I've been through PA-5 200 the XPA-5 gen 2 I still own and the XPA-1Ls all threw this same beating but over a month period for each amp? Yes class A only as well. God has been good to me. I do not still have them all in my possession any more just what's on my sig. The speakers you have BEG for power! Let me repeat, the Beg for power. As you can see , my Klipsch will sound ok on three AA batteries, they now sound as if I purchased new speakers at 3 or 4 times the price! Fanboy, I sound it but one of my many human flats is that I don't sugar coat things at all. The Fraser "Brutally Blunt " comes to mind. So, I ask you , do you want my opinion? Peace, Nick Nick, how does the XPR-1 compare to the XPA-1 L's in terms of sound quality? |
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Post by dingdong on Oct 10, 2013 18:15:31 GMT -5
Hello guys, this is the OP. Thank you all for the interesting replies. I'm still in the research process of which amplifier to get, and this thread has been very helpful so far. I took your guys' advice and contacted technical support on which one (XPR-2, XPA-1 or XPR-1) to get for the 4430's, and here is the reply i received from Chad. My question Tech support reply: I don't think 4430 will be going anywhere, but I might pick up some new and bigger JBL's because this is really the way to go if you have the option! As has been mentioned in this thread the room size is of importance. Now, the room the system will be set up in is subject to change in the near future, so I don't want to build the system around that room, other than doing acoustical treatments based on measurements from REW. I'm almost satisfied with SPL from Emotiva XPA-2 already, but I rather have some more headroom. XPA-1 will provide for this, but then again; room is subject to change, and there might be some ugly dips that require EQ'ing, and I don't want to sit there with a lack of power when trying to make the frequency response linear. Also, I'm contemplating doing active crossover (with miniDSP gear) in the future. This will reduce power requirement from the amps (but require four channels [one for each 15" and one for each horn]), hence I was thinking about using Emotiva XPx-1 on the 2235H 15" and maybe some tubes on the horns. I checked some measurements of the XPR-1's, and they have as little distortion as XPA-1 until 400-500w output, then Class H kicks in and you have a little spike in distortion. As a noob, I have been doing some reseach on this too, and there seems to be some controversy as to how much (harmonic) distortion there needs to be before it is audible. Seems like that little spike is insignificant. Unfortunately, I have not been able to figure out the topology of the single ended and balanced inputs and which amplifier(s) have opamps and which are discrete as of yet. Anyone who can shed some light on this, please do. PS: Sorry about the slow reply, but please understand that a lot of this is new to me (4430 is my first pair of speakers in about 10 years), so I try to do my homework on what you guys are talking about. |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 10, 2013 21:06:23 GMT -5
I have now had in my possession, 2 XPR-1s for one day and a total of five listening hours. Pandora, Oppo 103 2 channel and analog DVD and SACD and CD. Also a little FM. I know this is not much time with the Rs but I'm in love. I've been through PA-5 200 the XPA-5 gen 2 I still own and the XPA-1Ls all threw this same beating but over a month period for each amp? Yes class A only as well. God has been good to me. I do not still have them all in my possession any more just what's on my sig. The speakers you have BEG for power! Let me repeat, the Beg for power. As you can see , my Klipsch will sound ok on three AA batteries, they now sound as if I purchased new speakers at 3 or 4 times the price! Fanboy, I sound it but one of my many human flats is that I don't sugar coat things at all. The Fraser "Brutally Blunt " comes to mind. So, I ask you , do you want my opinion? Peace, Nick Nick, how does the XPR-1 compare to the XPA-1 L's in terms of sound quality? I'm not sending the XPR-1s back, that's for sure. I really liked the XPA-1Ls but if you can find the budget, in a heart-beat go for the XPR-1s. |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 11, 2013 0:01:21 GMT -5
Ok guys I'm sorry, I was not fair to the XPA-1Ls, for the money I would say there the best SQ product that I have heard from Emotiva. They are refined and detailed. Very nice highs and lows. More then you might expect, even compared to the XPA-5 or PA -5 200. It's another level, if that make sense. The form factor can not be beat, small, light and manageable. Fit almost anyplace, warning, if you plan on running a lot of class A I recommend breathing space and most likely a cooling fan, Sherbourn C-12 rebranded for Emotiva would be nice, You hear that Big Dan?,.
The XPA-1Ls did wake up my efficient Klipsch speakers witch surprised me pleasantly!
I would recommend this amp for any listening you have in mind, with detail to stereo. If you don't need, want or just need to have more power, or just have a modest room size or need, I highly recommend this amp. I'm running on and on but I could continue. PM me if you need more.
Peace,
Nick
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bootman
Emo VIPs 
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
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Post by bootman on Oct 11, 2013 12:20:20 GMT -5
I think the XPA-1 v2 with their 60W of class A would be the way to go.
They would match up nice with tubes up top if you are planning on going the DSP route.
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Post by Porscheguy on Oct 11, 2013 12:21:44 GMT -5
It really doesn't matter. All are good, all will work, all will sound great...
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Post by coolaidn on Oct 11, 2013 23:15:02 GMT -5
I know that Lonnie (the amps designer) stated some time ago, that the XPA-1 would remain SQ champ over the XPR line. I remember reading something along these lines as well but the specifics are certainly cloudy at this point. And I certainly didn't want to comb through all of the old posts to find that needle in the haystack. However, it did remind me of the Audioholics review of the XPR-1's. The reviewer had the following to say after the 1kHz Power Test on page 4 of the review... The power sweep tests revealed the Emotiva XPR-1 to be the most powerful amplifier we’ve ever reviewed to date! The XPR-1 maintains Class A/B operation right up to the Class H switch point which can be seen as a bump in the above 1kHz power sweep tests at about 340 watts (8 ohms) and 500 watts (4 ohms). The XPR-1 is essentially identical in performance to their Class A/B XPA-1 amplifier below these switch points. The modest rise in distortion once engaged in Class H is a small trade off to pay for doubling available amplifier power. Unless I'm reading this wrong, it does sound like the XPA-1 would in fact remain the SQ Champ. |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 11, 2013 23:47:29 GMT -5
::)And your driving 340 watts when and for how long?i don't think you'll hear it coming or going at that point, do you? IMHO Just saying  Peace, Nick |
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Post by coolaidn on Oct 12, 2013 0:23:51 GMT -5
::)And your driving 340 watts when and for how long?i don't think you'll hear it coming or going at that point, do you? IMHO Just saying Peace, Nick I most certainly don't think you would hear it. Aside from these testing machines, you would be hard-pressed to discern the difference! Only a bench test would reveal such blasphemy!  |
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Post by dingdong on Oct 12, 2013 18:18:15 GMT -5
I don't think the increase in distortion will be audible either. As it stands it will be XPA-1 or XPR-1. 60wpc class A operation is definitely tempting, but I can't help but wanting tons of power even though I don't need it for these particular speakers. Another consideration is I think XPA-1 looks better without the illuminating front plate, especially with a fully anodized black front plate . Another thing is the input sensitivity of XPA-1, which was measured to be 1.2Vrms by Audioholics, but was reported to be 2Vrms by Emotiva technical support. This is pretty low, and brings up the noise floor (which again can be an issue with sensitive speakers and a hot preamp). XPR-1 has 3.5Vrms input sensitivity, which is better. Tech support said both (balanced and single ended) inputs are rated at 2Vrms and 3.5Vrms respectively for the XPA-1 and XPR-1, so I would be interested to see a third party measurement of the input sensitivity of XPR-1 as there is a difference between what tech support said about XPA-1 and what Audioholics measured. Has anyone had any problem with noise using any of the monos? |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 12, 2013 20:41:45 GMT -5
I don't think the increase in distortion will be audible either. As it stands it will be XPA-1 or XPR-1. 60wpc class A operation is definitely tempting, but I can't help but wanting tons of power even though I don't need it for these particular speakers. Another consideration is I think XPA-1 looks better without the illuminating front plate, especially with a fully anodized black front plate . Another thing is the input sensitivity of XPA-1, which was measured to be 1.2Vrms by Audioholics, but was reported to be 2Vrms by Emotiva technical support. This is pretty low, and brings up the noise floor (which again can be an issue with sensitive speakers and a hot preamp). XPR-1 has 3.5Vrms input sensitivity, which is better. Tech support said both (balanced and single ended) inputs are rated at 2Vrms and 3.5Vrms respectively for the XPA-1 and XPR-1, so I would be interested to see a third party measurement of the input sensitivity of XPR-1 as there is a difference between what tech support said about XPA-1 and what Audioholics measured. Has anyone had any problem with noise using any of the monos? dingdong. You are missing a few things. The XPA-1 gen 2 has not been reviewed yet and uses a different gain struture - 29 db vs the XPA-1 gen 1 which is 32db. The gen 2 is still waiting for release. The XPR-1 takes 3.5 V to be driven to full but it has twice the power so at 3.5 V you are driving TWICE the power. So for the same amount of power output, the differences may not be as massive as you might think. I.e. at your listening volume you may be using 0.3 V with the XPR-1 and 0.4 V with the XPA-1 (as a hypotethical). Third. You really can't base your conclusions on the sound of an amplifier by small differences like gain structure. They are nice guides but experience has told me there's a whole lot more to it. So guessing these things is nearly impossible to be accurate. If I were you and I'm not, I would get the XPA-1 gen 2. I like the idea of class A and 60 watts of class A gives you 120 watts of Class A in stereo - and that's a LOT. I'm not convinced that sound is all about headroom. Don't get me wrong, it certainly plays a part but it's not all what it's about. I did a head to head with a mini-x (50 watts), an XPA-2 (300 watts) and a NAD amp (30 watts) in a reasonably unfamiliar environment. Well guess what the NAD amp didn't fall on its face at all, it sounded great and warmer than the others. I couldn't distinguish the mini-x from the XPA-2 (!) Yeah I know. I was surprised. I was epecting an absolute wipe out. But it wasn't - not even with just 30 watts of power. But later, I was able to distinguish the UPA-2 from the XPA-2 when I had it in my system. The XPA-2 was quicker. I ended up preferring the soundstage of the UPA-2 but really liked the quickness of the XPA-2 - it was a preference thing. |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 12, 2013 21:47:26 GMT -5
(rofl)Why go back to the well, just carry all you can the first time. XPR-1s the world is your oyster at that point! Peace, Nick
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Post by newguy on Oct 13, 2013 7:50:13 GMT -5
I think you would be in the 60 watts most of the time in Class A unless you want bleeding ears =/ And its going to be good for long XLR cable runs in installations since it's fully balanced assuming your preamp is fully balanced as well. Assuming it stays similar to XPA-1 GEN 1 It stays in class A/B all the way to 500 watts vs 340. www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/443035.pdfThe continuous program power is 300 W. With a peak of 2kW with a sensitivity of 93 at 1 watt @ 1M At 50 watts 110db SPL on axis @ 1M ==================================== 2nd harmonic - low med and High - Equal to or below 3% / 0.6% / 6% 3rd harmonic - low med and High - Equal to or below 1% / 1% / 1% 110 db is quite loud equivalent to a power saw at 3' the XPA-1 can do another 450. Pushing the volume might cause distortion you don't like. But then I do not own those speakers. 115 db is equivalent to a loud concert those speakers can do 119 db continuous which is the max. Most likely 300 watts program. I therefore conclude XPA-1 GEN2 once it exists is all you need...it can take 2 ohm dips too (apparently up to 1,750 watts I read from somewhere on this forum) So I'm with Bootman on this one... Errr... yeah I think I got everything right. Although having 240,000uf on one channel, 480,0000uF on both would be fun. Not sure if your ready to get 2x 20A lines and increase your cost. As stated in the Specifications "The XPR-1 requires a 20 Amp circuit and standard IEC 20 Amp outlet (which is different than a 15 Amp outlet). If you don’t have a proper circuit and outlet. We recommend you have one installed by a qualified electrician. We recommend that the XPR-1 be plugged into its own dedicated 20 Amp circuit." Your extra $$ can go to CD or a processors win win |
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These babies weigh in at a feather weight 175 lbs with a 19 lb magnet on the 15" driver. 
