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Post by soundmaster on Nov 16, 2014 8:52:31 GMT -5
Thanks Garbulky.........that's exactly the sound signature I'm looking for, warm full and detailed without harshness and glare, it's time to get the credit card out!
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Post by bluemeanies on Nov 16, 2014 11:19:21 GMT -5
Garbulky...Excellant review done in a professional manner that would leave someone considering buying this hi-end DAC from Emotiva without hesitation.
Even though I myself am not in the market for a DAC it was an interesting read having to come back twice to finish.
It's my lack of attention span.
Do you think it possible to give a crictical listen to the XSP1?
Thanks garbulky
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Post by garbulky on Feb 7, 2016 18:05:18 GMT -5
LIVING WITH THE DC-1: After spending a long time with this unit I have had the chance to try it out with several pieces of equipment. And my impressions has changed abouit it. So I thought I would do an update because some of the "negatives" aren't actually accurate for every piece of gear. And this is because of the revelation the XPA-1 gen 2 brought for me with the DC-1. The XPA-1 is a different animal to the other amps I've tried. It is FANTASTIC in my setup. It brings about a heightened amount of detail and 3d soundstage and allows me to run fully balanced in class A mode. It also extends the bass and allows for additional dynamic swing with the power and control it has on tap. Experience with Preamps: I got to try the DC-1 out with a variety of preamps - the XSP-1, the Mcintosh C220, Muse Model 3A, An Adcom preamp etc. Long story short: for some reason or another the DC-1 doesn't act too thrilled being paired to any of these preamps. There is always some veiling of detail in different degrees. Maybe it's the ability of the preamp maybe it's some mismatch thing going. The DC-1 may have been meant to run as the preamp instead of being run to a praemp. I don't know. I'm not an engineer. Now don't get me wrong the sound is still GOOD. But in terms of synergy, it just doesn't work. That last bit of transparency is missing. The XSP-1 which previously sounded absolutely fantastic, just didn't gel with the DC-1. The best it has sounded was with the McIntosh C220 Tube preamp. This produced an excellent "tube" sound to things which was eminently listenable. The kind of music that makes you just want to sit back and enjoy it. But even it is ultimately not the last bit of transparency which I was looking for. Now I heard it reported that the particular preamp just recieved a new set of Genelex Lion Tubes which has elevated its ability back to original manufacturer conditions. And I assume it sounds even better now. I know through headphone listening this preamp was spot on. So I have no reason to doubt its good performance. But...basically overall so far the sound has been best....and I am eating my words here from previous posts on preamps .... DC-1 direct to Emotiva XPA-1 has been the best pairing for it. The sound now: Previously I mentioned the preamp functionality of the DC-1 was good for a DAC but not good compared to a standalone preamp. I also takled about how the bass was bumped up too much. How the treble was recessed slightly. And also how I wouldn't use this DAC for mastering as it doesn't produce "everything". Well...I got to eat my words. None of these criticisms are applicable. The bass is not bumped up. The treble is not recessed (though it can be depending on speaker positioning,), and I would use the DAC for pro work - at least for my newbie amateur production stuff which is all I can speak for. The sound is FANTASTIC. It is very balanced. It's ridiculouisly detailed. More importantly the tone and stuff sounds natural. Emotiva really did hit the ball out of the park with this DAC. There is some serious bass. The bass is quite extended. It's ability to portray 3d soundstage is pretty amazing imo. I listened to voices of music on youtube and it has very good recording quality. Before I could hear the instruments have a 3d sound and tied to each other in the same space. Now I can see more about how it not just ties to each other....everything ties in to the space. For instance if they are in a cathedral I can literally hear the size of it - like a big square that sort of imrpession. In this big deep square you can see with your minds eye where the instruments are located. The room is portrayed to a degree I hadn't heard before. Maybe a slight critic is if you turn up the volume a LOT then things may have the tendency to get slightly harsh in the treble. But all this time I've had it with the XPA-1 gen 2 this has not made me think - uh it's a little harsh. I tend to play things not terribly loudly. So if you are looking for a very solid DAC to pair with your powerful amp and hopefully resolving speakers, this DAC gets my qualification. For the price it is selling at, this DAC is a steal. It just is. Enjoyment: This DAC provides me a sense of depth and naturalness that I enjoy the music. I now really like to sit back and listen to the music. Let the DAC impress me, watch the expertise of the performers. I listened to Jewel perform live on DVD and I was stunned at what she was able to do. It felt very live. Now the whole caveat is that I experienced this with an XPA-1 gen 2 in balanced mode with class A switch enabled. With my UPA-2 which is a lovely amp, it wasn't able to do this. The sound felt more strained at high volumes and there was some bloat and smear. Not obviously audible but it is the omission that shows. The 3d sound space isn't quite there. Also I tried taking out my single acoustic panel (done by accident) and it completely bollocksed the soundstage. I was wondering why I was so displeased with the sound, wondering if I had imagined it. Until I realized I had removed the acoustic panel. So I think in this case it does matter what equipment you associate it with and the results won't be the same for everyone. So I think if you pair it with a less pricey emo setup, then the results may be similar to my original observations. But what it does mean is that the DC-1 is capable of very good sound which I can reccomend with no reservations. Especially at its fantastic price. Upgrades: When I upgrade I try to do so to get a significant jump in quality. I am not a fan of incremental upgrades as I feel that they end up wasting more money than saving. My planned upgrade to this setup is a Schiit Ygdrassil Audio GD HE-1 Possibly dual power sound audio S15 subwoofer. Summary: Fantastic unit. I now have NO reservations about its sound quality. It's just darn good at what it does. Thanks for reading. Feel free to comment.  |
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Post by audiobill on Feb 7, 2016 18:14:41 GMT -5
Good thoughts, Gar.
Through my extensive listening and testing, I think the DC-1 beats all comers up to about $1,200 where it is bested by certain others.
A very real accomplishment, and a great dac/preamp for real high end sonics.
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 8, 2016 9:17:29 GMT -5
Having heard garbulky's setup over several opportunities and several iterations, I'd have to agree with him. The DC1 with his previous equipment was good (but only that). With the new XPA-1 amplifiers, the system is transformed into something else entirely. Is it the amplifiers that made the difference? To some extent, yes. But my feeling is that the pairing of the DC1 and the XPA-1 amplifiers is highly synergistic - the whole is more (and in this case, far more) than the sum of the individual parts. The amps are very good amps, the DAC is an OK DAC, but when the two team up, the combination is an order of magnitude better than any of the parts on their own. So what does this mean for the audiophile at large? Simply that a $2,697 expenditure can put one into business with a world-class DAC/Amp combo that will drive ANY speaker on the market. Considering the price of the "competition," and that one can spend (far) more on a DAC alone, this is an unprecedented value! What one gets with this combo is a stunning soundstage, deep and clean bass, and enough transparency to take on any recording. Now the caveat - Will this combo work with any (good) speaker, or is there further synergy between the XPA-1s and Gar's Axiom M80 speakers? I can't answer that definitively, but I can say that the XPA-2 (Gen. 2) that I'm using with my Axiom M100 speakers is a good match also (but still not as snazzy as Gar's). In any case, Gar's system now sounds as good as anything I've heard. Congratulations! Boomzilla |
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klinemj
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Official Emofest Scribe
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Post by klinemj on Feb 8, 2016 18:55:56 GMT -5
I hear what you guys say on synergies, and maybe it is real. But, personally, I have never experienced what people describe as "synergy" of components when it comes to things like preamps or DAC's. And, by synergy, I mean, some things sound good together and other things don't. That said, I have heard a component be great in one system but not have its greatness be revealed by another system...because the other system had a weak link that obscured the otherwise good component. The only exception to this is switching out speakers, but I would not call what I have heard there to be "synergy". I have heard some hard to drive speakers that were not properly powered by an amp sound bad, but properly powered speakers sounding awesome. I guess one would call that synergy, but I would call it having the appropriate power for the job. In the case of the DC-1 coming to life with the XPA-1's, perhaps what happened was the XPA-1's are allowing the DC-1 to shine to its fullest. Having heard the DC-1/XPR-1 combo (with Dirac through Maggie 3.7's), my vote is that Gar buys a used XPR-1 and some Maggies and gets at least the PC version of Dirac. Mark |
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Post by garbulky on Feb 8, 2016 23:50:15 GMT -5
I hear what you guys say on synergies, and maybe it is real. But, personally, I have never experienced what people describe as "synergy" of components when it comes to things like preamps or DAC's. And, by synergy, I mean, some things sound good together and other things don't. That said, I have heard a component be great in one system but not have its greatness be revealed by another system...because the other system had a weak link that obscured the otherwise good component. The only exception to this is switching out speakers, but I would not call what I have heard there to be "synergy". I have heard some hard to drive speakers that were not properly powered by an amp sound bad, but properly powered speakers sounding awesome. I guess one would call that synergy, but I would call it having the appropriate power for the job. In the case of the DC-1 coming to life with the XPA-1's, perhaps what happened was the XPA-1's are allowing the DC-1 to shine to its fullest. Having heard the DC-1/XPR-1 combo (with Dirac through Maggie 3.7's), my vote is that Gar buys a used XPR-1 and some Maggies and gets at least the PC version of Dirac. Mark The XPR-1s are fine amps but I find myself preferring the XPA-1s. If I were to move on up I would get a second pair and bi amp. That class A sound feels great to me. I would love to hear a pair of 3.7s. I've heard some 1.6's and though they had resolving power they didn't give a 100% natural tone and there was a slight fuzz around things. But they did very well on depth and that open window feel to the sound. It almost felt like they were headphones that were speakers. I'm not sure if Maggies are the route I'd take. But I can see why people are intoxicated with the sound. I heard the .7 series were an improvement. Now in terms of looks, I think the Maggies look great! I think cone speakers are in my future. But I wouldn't be opposed to Open Baffle cones. Right now I think dual subs would improve things with anchoring things in the soundstage. And a course better DAC and preamp. (Schiit Yggy and Audio GD HE-1). But I also think I am overlooking applying more room treatments in my room. |
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Post by novisnick on Feb 9, 2016 0:01:19 GMT -5
I hear what you guys say on synergies, and maybe it is real. But, personally, I have never experienced what people describe as "synergy" of components when it comes to things like preamps or DAC's. And, by synergy, I mean, some things sound good together and other things don't. That said, I have heard a component be great in one system but not have its greatness be revealed by another system...because the other system had a weak link that obscured the otherwise good component. The only exception to this is switching out speakers, but I would not call what I have heard there to be "synergy". I have heard some hard to drive speakers that were not properly powered by an amp sound bad, but properly powered speakers sounding awesome. I guess one would call that synergy, but I would call it having the appropriate power for the job. In the case of the DC-1 coming to life with the XPA-1's, perhaps what happened was the XPA-1's are allowing the DC-1 to shine to its fullest. Having heard the DC-1/XPR-1 combo (with Dirac through Maggie 3.7's), my vote is that Gar buys a used XPR-1 and some Maggies and gets at least the PC version of Dirac. Mark The XPR-1s are fine amps but I find myself preferring the XPA-1s. If I were to move on up I would get a second pair and bi amp. That class A sound feels great to me. I would love to hear a pair of 3.7s. I've heard some 1.6's and though they had resolving power they didn't give a 100% natural tone and there was a slight fuzz around things. But they did very well on depth and that open window feel to the sound. It almost felt like they were headphones that were speakers. I'm not sure if Maggies are the route I'd take. But I can see why people are intoxicated with the sound. I heard the .7 series were an improvement. Now in terms of looks, I think the Maggies look great! I think cone speakers are in my future. But I wouldn't be opposed to Open Baffle cones. Right now I think dual subs would improve things with anchoring things in the soundstage. And a course better DAC and preamp. (Schiit Yggy and Audio GD HE-1). But I also think I am overlooking applying more room treatments in my room. Gar, you do realize that you are preferring one amp over another without comparing it with the same gear and room. Fair?,,,,,,,hummmmm. This should be stated when making such a btoad statement. |
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Post by garbulky on Feb 9, 2016 0:06:57 GMT -5
Hi novisnick: You are absolutely right! You should know I think the XPR-1s sounded GREAT in your system. There's just something about the XPA-1s I prefer that's all. It's a subjective preference thing. Specs wise I like the ginormous power supply on the XPR-1s and a healthy dose of class A. But dislike the class H power supply architecture. The XPA-1 I like the 60 watts class A and the class A AB switch which I;ve come to really like .I find that the class A - and I could be wrong here - but over time I feel there is a more immersive sound with it. If I had the money for the power bills I would get something like Krell's pure class A monoblocks that Harri009 was selling! I think class A power and me just gel |
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Post by novisnick on Feb 9, 2016 0:24:05 GMT -5
Hi novisnick : You are absolutely right! You should know I think the XPR-1s sounded GREAT in your system. There's just something about the XPA-1s I prefer that's all. It's a subjective preference thing. Specs wise I like the ginormous power supply on the XPR-1s and a healthy dose of class A. But dislike the class H power supply architecture. The XPA-1 I like the 60 watts class A and the class A AB switch which I;ve come to really like .I find that the class A - and I could be wrong here - but over time I feel there is a more immersive sound with it. If I had the money for the power bills I would get something like Krell's pure class A monoblocks that Harri009 was selling! I think class A power and me just gel My friend, you've still missed my point. A fair judgment of a comparison is to compare all the gear together in person,,,,,,with your actual ears, otherwise,,,,it's just a guess. That all I'm saying.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,No, I'm not bringing them there!! Even though that's most likely the only way to prove any of what I speak. Attachment Deleted |
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Post by JKCashin on Feb 9, 2016 0:30:29 GMT -5
Any thoughts on how the DC-1 would pair with XPA-1Ls?
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Post by garbulky on Feb 9, 2016 0:45:20 GMT -5
Well I only heard them at B'zilla's house with the XPA-1 Ls. They didn't do too hot. It may ave to do with the preamp and the DC-1 or something else. But in that setup it didn't do well.
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Post by garbulky on Feb 9, 2016 0:46:56 GMT -5
Hi novisnick : You are absolutely right! You should know I think the XPR-1s sounded GREAT in your system. There's just something about the XPA-1s I prefer that's all. It's a subjective preference thing. Specs wise I like the ginormous power supply on the XPR-1s and a healthy dose of class A. But dislike the class H power supply architecture. The XPA-1 I like the 60 watts class A and the class A AB switch which I;ve come to really like .I find that the class A - and I could be wrong here - but over time I feel there is a more immersive sound with it. If I had the money for the power bills I would get something like Krell's pure class A monoblocks that Harri009 was selling! I think class A power and me just gel My friend, you've still missed my point. A fair judgment of a comparison is to compare all the gear together in person,,,,,,with your actual ears, otherwise,,,,it's just a guess. That all I'm saying.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,No, I'm not bringing them there!! Even though that's most likely the only way to prove any of what I speak. View AttachmentI hear ya. The fairest comparison is in one's own room. I doubt that's ever going to happen though. So I've got to go with what I've got even though it's not ideal. Good point though. I have heard both the XPR-2 and XPR-1 albeit in different rooms though. They share similar qualities though I felt the XPR-1 edged out a bit between the two. |
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Post by yves on Feb 9, 2016 14:29:56 GMT -5
My friend, you've still missed my point. A fair judgment of a comparison is to compare all the gear together in person,,,,,,with your actual ears, otherwise,,,,it's just a guess. Amen! |
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Post by JKCashin on Feb 9, 2016 20:02:56 GMT -5
Well I only heard them at B'zilla's house with the XPA-1 Ls. They didn't do too hot. It may ave to do with the preamp and the DC-1 or something else. But in that setup it didn't do well. Ahh, that's too bad. I was hoping they would shine with a DC-1. Thanks for the reply. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 9, 2016 22:55:42 GMT -5
After living with the XPA-1L's for almost a year now, you're right Gar, that Class A sound and staging is sneaky, hard to find, sometimes it's right there, in your face, then it's elusive, like it's hiding. As well as speaker positioning, it's definitely source material sensitive. The BBC Big Band, for example, is most revealing, I can place the instruments, right there, each one, individually. The redbook layer of the Moody Blues Seventh Sojourn SACD is not quite so precise, but the sound is big, it floods out over the room.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by JKCashin on Feb 9, 2016 23:17:24 GMT -5
Which BBC Big Band recording do you mean? I'd like to take a listen myself
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Post by novisnick on Feb 10, 2016 0:29:14 GMT -5
Which BBC Big Band recording do you mean? I'd like to take a listen myself I'd bet good money this is the one! It's a must have on this forum.   |
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Post by novisnick on Feb 10, 2016 0:30:52 GMT -5
After living with the XPA-1L's for almost a year now, you're right Gar, that Class A sound and staging is sneaky, hard to find, sometimes it's right there, in your face, then it's elusive, like it's hiding. As well as speaker positioning, it's definitely source material sensitive. The BBC Big Band, for example, is most revealing, I can place the instruments, right there, each one, individually. The redbook layer of the Moody Blues Seventh Sojourn SACD is not quite so precise, but the sound is big, it floods out over the room. Cheers Gary |
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Post by garbulky on Feb 10, 2016 1:32:40 GMT -5
I've mentioned this before. But Voices of Music has excellent soundstaging. Even though it's on Youtube. It is 4k video too on quite a few of them! They also have CD quality stuff for sale on their website.
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