A tube buffer

[GreenKiwi]

I would love to have a tube buffer that had the following features.

• Bypass mode - when not on OR when on with a bypass enabled the sound just goes straight through
• 2 RCA jacks & 1 XLR - It can either be used in stereo mode, or two can be used in balanced/mono mode - or two models, single ended and balanced
• 12V triggers (this isn't so high up on my list, but I think others would really like it)

So maybe I'm missing something, but I'd rather not have a whole separate line of tube preamps, the USP, XSP, XDA-2 & DC-1 are great and I'd love to have a tube option with them. If I could add a tube buffer, I could have my cake and eat it too... when I wanted to.

[emovac]

I do not know of a TB which matches all of your criteria. With respect to bypass, my method is run the XLRs from my DAC through the tube buffer to the integrated amp, and run the RCAs direct from the DAC to the integrated amp. My TB has to be on, or it will not allow signal to route through.

Not sure if a trigger would be of much value to me. I always like to warm up the TB before using it. What I'm using is in the link below.

www.audio-horizons.com/pages/tube_buffer.html

[brubacca]

Pre-Amp here.

[Porscheguy]

I'm for solid state electronics because of their superior sound quality and reliability. I do have some tube equipment but they are guitar amps. Tubes excel at distortion.

Then again I'm not much for turntables either. Nostalgic at best..

[KeithL]

A few considerations and comments...

First, congratulations for understanding how the world really works You've acknowledged that "tube sound" is a coloration that is added to the way something sounds - and so a single tube buffer (say, between the preamp and power amp) can therefore serve to add it to whatever you like - and do a really excellent job of it. This is exactly what I believe (based on a lot of experience and technical training), and so is what I am convinced is '"the way to go".

However, the reason for entirely separate tube components is that some tube lovers still insist that solid state circuitry also "adds" something, and so prefer the option of having their audio pass through ONLY tube equipment and to avoid having anything solid state in their signal chain... so they want a tube preamp, and a tube power amp, and.... well.... a CD player is digital and has way too much circuitry in it to make it with tubes.... ahh, well....

Making a good balanced tube buffer is a significantly more complicated proposition than an unbalanced one. For one thing, it has a much higher parts count; for another, though, since gain matching is critical in a balanced circuit if you don't want to sacrifice the benefits of its being a balanced circuit, the circuit design itself is both more critical and more limited. (A simple cathode follower has very predictable gain, and makes for an excellent performing buffer, but is so transparent it won't add much if any "tube sound"; a triode will add more "tube sound", but will require a more complex design to do so and still maintain a well-controlled and matched gain characteristic.)

I wold agree that putting trigger control on the power circuitry wouldn't make sense because of the turn-on and warm up delay. However, combining a trigger with the bypass option might be useful (so, for example, the tube buffer could be bypassed automatically when your pre/pro is switched to a surround sound input).

And... nobody even mentioned the possibility of a multi-channel (surround sound) tube buffer for home theater systems...

Oct 30, 2013 11:51:44 GMT -5 GreenKiwi said:

I would love to have a tube buffer that had the following features.

• Bypass mode - when not on OR when on with a bypass enabled the sound just goes straight through
• 2 RCA jacks & 1 XLR - It can either be used in stereo mode, or two can be used in balanced/mono mode - or two models, single ended and balanced
• 12V triggers (this isn't so high up on my list, but I think others would really like it)

So maybe I'm missing something, but I'd rather not have a whole separate line of tube preamps, the USP, XSP, XDA-2 & DC-1 are great and I'd love to have a tube option with them. If I could add a tube buffer, I could have my cake and eat it too... when I wanted to.

[AudioHTIT]

Well to play along I chose the buffer, and since I already have an XSP-1 with a processor loop I wouldn't want all that bypass stuff (but I understand why you do).

[GreenKiwi]

AudioHTIT I'd actually be totally cool if it just was bypassed when off, but I think that a triggered or otherwise controlled bypass would be useful. And having a buffer so one could experiment with the sound with the XSP-1 sounds just about right.

@emokeithl Regarding HT and multiple channels - I was just assuming one could just get N of these devices for a tube HT sound. =D

I guess I had been assuming that balanced was just 2x single ended, didn't know that the circuits end up needing to be more complex, but that all makes sense. I was thinking (which appears correct) that getting the gains to all match is very important.

Also regarding control, I was thinking that there are two functions Power & Bypass and it could/would be useful if both of these were controllable via Trigger and potentially IR.

[pedrocols]

Oct 30, 2013 12:21:32 GMT -5 emovac said:

I do not know of a TB which matches all of your criteria. With respect to bypass, my method is run the XLRs from my DAC through the tube buffer to the integrated amp, and run the RCAs direct from the DAC to the integrated amp. My TB has to be on, or it will not allow signal to route through.

Not sure if a trigger would be of much value to me. I always like to warm up the TB before using it. What I'm using is in the link below.

www.audio-horizons.com/pages/tube_buffer.html

Those look nice but kind of pricey if you ask me considering you can find a real all out tube preamp cheaper either used or brand new.

[emovac]

Oct 30, 2013 20:12:48 GMT -5 pedrocols said:

Oct 30, 2013 12:21:32 GMT -5 emovac said:

I do not know of a TB which matches all of your criteria. With respect to bypass, my method is run the XLRs from my DAC through the tube buffer to the integrated amp, and run the RCAs direct from the DAC to the integrated amp. My TB has to be on, or it will not allow signal to route through.

Not sure if a trigger would be of much value to me. I always like to warm up the TB before using it. What I'm using is in the link below.

www.audio-horizons.com/pages/tube_buffer.html

Those look nice but kind of pricey if you ask me considering you can find a real all out tube preamp cheaper either used or brand new.

It works well in my system, plus I had access to a good supply of 6DJ8 family tubes in advance of the purchase. NOS tubes are expensive. I like my Wyred4Sound integrated amp and W4S multi-channel amp signature sound. This TB provides warm coloration on demand should I choose to introduce the tube sound. Price is a relative thing. It is a very useful device and compliments my system nicely. I bought it on a try and buy, and found that I definitely didn't want to return it. Shorter listening sessions employ solid state, since warm up time is important. I can listen to solid state or tube sound, a tube pre-amp would limit that choice.

Which tube preamp(s) are you recommending? I am curious of the choices you think are good in that price range.

[pedrocols]

Oct 30, 2013 21:35:48 GMT -5 emovac said:

Oct 30, 2013 20:12:48 GMT -5 pedrocols said:

Those look nice but kind of pricey if you ask me considering you can find a real all out tube preamp cheaper either used or brand new.

It works well in my system, plus I had access to a good supply of 6DJ8 family tubes in advance of the purchase. NOS tubes are expensive. I like my Wyred4Sound integrated amp and W4S multi-channel amp signature sound. This TB provides warm coloration on demand should I choose to introduce the tube sound. Price is a relative thing. It is a very useful device and compliments my system nicely. I bought it on a try and buy, and found that I definitely didn't want to return it. Shorter listening sessions employ solid state, since warm up time is important. I can listen to solid state or tube sound, a tube pre-amp would limit that choice.

Which tube preamp(s) are you recommending? I am curious of the choices you think are good in that price range.

I am not recommending any preamp in particular. I am just exploring the options.

[etunes]

Hi all - first post here. I signed up to be a part of this forum maybe a month ago when I first caught wind of the Carver/Emotiva partnership but haven't had a reason to say anything until now. I'm disappointed the partnership dissolved, but I would still be interested in a tubed preamp from Emotiva. I can't really see any reason to buy a standalone buffer as that's just one more piece of equipment to find room for in the equipment rack, not to mention that it would require additional cabling. I'd propose that the best of both worlds would be something like what Peachtree Audio does with their pres and integrateds - the tube section of the preamp can be engaged or disengaged by the user at the touch of a button. If Emotiva can produce a preamp like this with a built-in DAC that has more input options than the Peachtree (for example, the same amount that the current XDA-2 has) and maybe two analog inputs (as opposed to Peachtree's single input) they would have a serious winner on their hands.

[novisnick]

Welcome etune, glad to have you on board

Peace,

Nick

[Nodscene]

I have to vote for the buffer. I currently use one now and since my system is used for music and movies it's the only practical way to go. Whenever I need to replace my preamp/processor due to changing technologies, I can still keep the tube sound no matter what I decide to get. I would also like a 3 channel buffer so I could either use it on the 3 channels (L, C, R) or even buy a 3 and 2 channel so I get the tube effect on all speakers.

[4krow]

I have used tube buffers for years with SOME of the CD players that I have owned. I did a little modding by adding two inputs and a volume control, essentially making it a pre-amp of sorts. My understanding is that it has to do with matching impedences between the CD player and the amp/integrated amp. Having said that, I almost always think that CD recordings need some sort of help. Now, I am going to switch gears because I am the new owner of an ERC3. Wow, seems to be the only word that I can find for this unit. I have owned my share of audio equipment, both good and BAD, regardless of price. This unit out performs most of them. No need for a TB here. No need for a Carver Sonic hologram C9 unit either. This time, simple is better.

[jedinite24]

If Emotiva would do a tube buffer I hope they can put a different spin on it. Maybe different tubes used or something that is tube rectified. I have a Yaqin made tube buffer that used 6sn7 tubes and it is good. I've also seen all sorts of 12AU7 based tube buffers as well as 6922 based tube buffers. I'd love for Emotiva to make either a tube preamp or buffer that is pretty solid and will set itself from the rest at a wonderful price point.

[lehighvalleyjeff]

I've been using a Musical Fidelity X-10D tube buffer since 1998 and honestly I really enjoy the sound. Have used it in many systems with several CD players and have since had it modded with better tubes and caps. I am hopeful that emotiva might consider making such a product.

[lionear]

Why would you need a hardware tube stage, with all the challenges that throws up? Wouldn't you just need an EQ setting on your sound processor for "Warm & Tubey"?
That way, there's no need for a trigger. And if it's in the processor, there are no problems with the number of inputs or outputs, and there should already be a "Bypass" setting.

Now the question is: which piece of tube equipment would one model the processor settings on? VTL power amps have never been warm and tubey, and the Audio Research "Reference" series is getting a lot of rave reviews, right? (A couple of weeks ago, I heard a system that had a VTL phono stage, VTL pre, and the 800W VTL power amps - all tube - the sound was amazingly good!) So it can't be VTL or Audio Research.

I suppose the cliche "warm and tubey" sound is the stuff you'd hear from amps dating from the 40's, with worn out tubes, etc. Any specific nominations?

Perhaps it could be conrad-johnson gear - the old gear definitely had a warmth to it (I haven't heard later designs). But after a while, it drove most of us crazy and we couldn't stick with it. There was a certain "authority" with c-j gear which was very nice, and I guess those who wanted that could hear past the warmth. And then we had better tube units (VTL, etc.) which had the authority without the coloration, anyway.

So which gear would give us a benchmark "warm & tubey" sound?

PS: I just found out there's a whole industry for synthesizer presets - just as there are people who sell workflows and settings for Photoshop. May be what we need from Emotiva is a programming interface for their processors, and an "app store" for settings. Then one can shop around and find the exact sound one is after, then load into an Emotiva preamp.

[GreenKiwi]

LHLabs has a tube buffer now available... don't know too much about it, but it could be interesting.

bit.ly/GeekPulse

[MikeWI]

Nov 26, 2014 0:51:28 GMT -5 GreenKiwi said:

LHLabs has a tube buffer now available... don't know too much about it, but it could be interesting.

bit.ly/GeekPulse

I was just going to post that also.
Just posted more details last night and today.

Mike



(bold added, after I saw prior discussion of balanced tube buffers above...)

Geek Tube Buffer (GTB) is a dedicated device that's placed between your audio signal chain. In our designed scenario, GTB will best be implemented between Geek Pulse DAC and your pre-amplifier or power amplifier.

Geek Tube Buffer features the warm and charming sound of tubes while also providing a high input impedance and low output impedance allowing it to buffer your audio signal. The circuit in use here is a similar yet simplified one from those that are in use with our $130,000 Sire DAC tube output. Its active biased parafeed tube circuit uses 6922/6DJ8 to give you the highest bandwidth and lowest noise.

GTB Single-ended is outfitted with two audio grade Switchcraft RCA single-ended inputs and two single-ended output as well.
GTB Balanced features two Neutrik XLR balanced inputs and two XLR balanced outputs. Both versions will use a pair of 6922/6DJ8 tubes.

Just a heads up, GTB needs to be paired with Geek LPS4 as it will use TWO of its super clean 12V DC outputs.

For those of you that don't have the space required for Geek Soul Tube but still want your Geek Pulse to highlight the warmth of tube audio, GTB is the device is for you!

[405x5]

Happy Thanksgiving to all and I would like to thank all the "Tube Nuts" here....with all the snow coming today, I needed a good laugh. Never ceases to amaze me how people can be so deluded as to throw money away and actually pay to have an audio system where distortion is the number one priority!

Enjoy and good holiday to all!

Bill