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Post by deltadube on Dec 3, 2013 15:05:24 GMT -5
XPA-1L FTW. The XPA-1 is definitely more amp than I will need (as if the XPA-2 isn't already more than I need). Okay, now I just have to save for a pair of XPA-1Ls after having just purchased a DC-1 a few days ago. Too bad the sale will be over by then. BTW, the DC-1 is a noticeable improvement (to my ears) over the DAC in the ERC-2. Well-recorded classical CDs seem to exhibit cleaner separation of the instruments, and the distortion (if that's the right word) seems toned down. I'm not sure if I would notice any improvement from the 1Ls beyond what the DC-1 fed into the XSP-1 is giving me...but monoblocks in a balanced set-up still sounds appealing. it has been said here before .. you can never have enough amp power... xpa 1s or xpr 1s cheers
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Post by linvincible on Dec 24, 2013 10:17:04 GMT -5
Hello everyone, As said previously some friends and I tested a few amps yesterday, in different setups. Amps at our disposal : 2x XPA-1 G1 2x XPA-1 G2 2x XPA-100 2x XPA-1L yes, that's 3200W of monoblock power and 440 pounds to move around ;o) Our main goal was to test bi-amping and see what it was worth using in bi-amping configuration. Then we wanted to compare the XPA-1 G1 to G2 and some speaker cables, which was a bit too much for our brains after 5 hours of tests! Setup: - speakers were a pair of Triangle Magellan Cello - interconnect were 4x Vovox Sonorus Direct XLR - speaker cable 4x Emo X SS speaker cables 2m Playlist (all FLAC 16/44.1): - Led Zeppelin, Mothership, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You - Katie Melua, Collection, Closest Thing to Crazy - Joe Satriani, Live in San Francisco, Bass Solo (actually Stuart Hamm) - Kylie Minogue and Nick Cave, Where The Wild Roses Grow - Buena Vista Social Club, Chan Chan - Dido, Life For Rent, White Flag - Muse, Origin of Symmetry, New Born Plus a few others when we felt like it, but these ones we listened to in every config. We started with just the 1L's, that were warmed up in the main room. The G2's were warming up in another room. We listened to them for a while, going through our reference playlist. We tried switching the class-A switch but none of us could tell a difference. Then we brought the G2's over, plugged them in and listened to just that. We found a noticeable difference, as if the 1L's were reined-in in comparison. Whatever was reined-in with the 1L's was let loose with the G2's. Here to we tried to find a difference with the class-A switch but failed to hear anything. Either it needs an educated ear which we don't have or class-A mode needs more warming up... Then we tested bi-amping, G2's for the bass and 1L's for medium/treble. Very noticeable change, more separation between the highs and lows, a bit more volume on the bass. Very nice improvement, we were sure by then this was the direction to go. We played some tracks just for the enjoyment of it before resuming the tests. We replaced the 1L's by the XPA-100 for the medium/treble, to see if the symmetry and class A capability were really needed in such a usage : yes, they are. We returned quickly to the 1L's. Then, just to be sure, we used the G1's for the highs, instead of the 1L's. We hesitated to do this test as it meant moving the massive amps again and it was certainly overkill anyway. Well, turns out there's no overkill in that matter! That was beautiful! balanced, dynamic, clear, and all the medium/treble that we were unaware to be eaten up during loud parts were completely present. Major difference in Newborn and Babe I'm Gonna Leave You. By then our ears were a bit tired and the joy of the experience left us without focus to do the other tests. We continued nevertheless, not to have done the effort of gathering all this gear for nothing, to compare the G1's and G2's and some speaker cables. We found no major difference in the speaker cables we wanted to compare, and same thing with G1 vs G2. maybe we were just deaf by then, or the difference is so subtle that we could not tell them apart after the time neede to turn off unplug/ turn on replug. Today we did the same bi-amping G1+G2 setup at another place, with a friend owning a pair of B&W 802, same wow effect! All in all, with the pricing of each product, you really get what you pay for. Now I know what I want for christmas ;O) I hope this answered a few questions! Edit : picture of the setup in attachments
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Post by audiobill on Dec 24, 2013 10:51:07 GMT -5
Having just bought the G1's on sale, I'm much relieved!!!!!
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Post by cardiffkook on Dec 24, 2013 11:26:28 GMT -5
Awesome comment, linvincible.
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Post by deltadube on Dec 24, 2013 12:00:09 GMT -5
Having just bought the G1's on sale, I'm much relieved!!!!! nice to know I got real value in my g 1s too need to hear about a few more comparisons too Merry Christmas
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Post by milsap195 on Dec 24, 2013 12:05:23 GMT -5
There just does not seem to be much difference between the gen 1 and gen 2 amps. The Xpa-2 gen 2 has been out for quite some time and nobody has talked about any kind of difference.
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novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,230
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Post by novisnick on Dec 24, 2013 12:13:00 GMT -5
Having just bought the G1's on sale, I'm much relieved!!!!! nice to know I got real value in my g 1s too need to hear about a few more comparisons too Merry Christmas Repeat after me,,,,,,, monos Baby!!!!!!!!
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Post by bluemeanies on Feb 22, 2014 11:30:19 GMT -5
Nice....review and thanks for taking the time. I myself could not tell the difference between A/B mode to pure Class A mode. Of course my ears are not the same as they use to be some forty years ago. I know when switching from A/B mode to Class A mode I was expecting to hear a revelation with my music. I could not....it still sounded amazing to me the difference I have with theXPA1 GEN2 compared to using my Outlaw 7700 amp at 200 watts. The XPA's delivered in my situation.
Again thanks for the review ...good job and take care of your back.
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 22, 2014 11:35:31 GMT -5
Nice....review and thanks for taking the time. I myself could not tell the difference between A/B mode to pure Class A mode. Of course my ears are not the same as they use to be some forty years ago. I know when switching from A/B mode to Class A mode I was expecting to hear a revelation with my music. I could not....it still sounded amazing to me the difference I have with theXPA1 GEN2 compared to using my Outlaw 7700 amp at 200 watts. The XPA's delivered in my situation. Again thanks for the review ...good job and take care of your back. If there was such a revelatory change in the sound when switching from class A to AB mode, then as long as your hearing is still decent, wouldn't you still expect to hear something? Also, if there was such a great change I would think that this would be bothersome to people, for their music to sound one way then all of a sudden decline because it switched to AB mode, which would then lead them to play at lower volumes so as to always stay within class A limits. Which would then defeat the purpose of having an awesome system that did class A mode.
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Post by bluemeanies on Feb 22, 2014 17:24:47 GMT -5
You know what you are right about the changes from A/B mode to A. However my perceived notion before I bought my XPA1's from reads on the forum were that there are a lot of people pumped up about class A. Therefore I assumed there would be a noticeable difference. I guess I had to find out myself. Everybody's hearing is different. Personally I enjoy the XPA's...period. Makes no difference to me what mode I think it is a great amp.
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Post by garbulky on Feb 22, 2014 18:22:06 GMT -5
There's multiple ways of looking at this. For instance one could say there is no audible difference between class AB and class A for this amp in their setup. Or they could also say..... Emotiva has managed to make their class A/B mode (which btw is probably assumed to be at least 10 watts class A bias as per XPA-1 gen 1) sound as good as the class A mode. Which is a really nice achievement. Neither would be wrong.
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 22, 2014 20:24:19 GMT -5
Time for a bit of controversy perhaps................... Playlist (all FLAC 16/44.1): - Led Zeppelin, Mothership, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You - Katie Melua, Collection, Closest Thing to Crazy - Joe Satriani, Live in San Francisco, Bass Solo (actually Stuart Hamm) - Kylie Minogue and Nick Cave, Where The Wild Roses Grow - Buena Vista Social Club, Chan Chan - Dido, Life For Rent, White Flag - Muse, Origin of Symmetry, New Born The items on the play list are not what I would be choosing to demonstrate a Class A amplifier, nor am I convinced that FLAC 16/44.1 files would be suitable source. Having owned quite a few Class A amps the benefits that I hear are in the upper mid to tweeter range. I'd be looking to use music with clarinets, flutes, violins, trumpets, right hand piano etc Whilst I'm am not familiar with every track on the playlist, personally I wouldn't even bother using any Lead Zeppelin (and I'm a Zep fan) recordings as a Class A test, they are simply not quality masters in the area that Class A excels. That said I'm somewhat surprised that the violins in Where The Wild Roses Grow weren't more noted in the Class A listening. Perhaps it's the almost 20 year old recording with its rampant compression and FM radio ready sound that is the route of the missing sound difference. A Class A listing session that doesn't have some vinyl, quality CD player and SACD sources is probably not going to reveal all that is there to hear. That said the quality of Emotiva Class AB amplification doesn't leave a lot of room for anything above it. Cheers Gary
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 22, 2014 22:06:48 GMT -5
Time for a bit of controversy perhaps................... Playlist (all FLAC 16/44.1): - Led Zeppelin, Mothership, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You - Katie Melua, Collection, Closest Thing to Crazy - Joe Satriani, Live in San Francisco, Bass Solo (actually Stuart Hamm) - Kylie Minogue and Nick Cave, Where The Wild Roses Grow - Buena Vista Social Club, Chan Chan - Dido, Life For Rent, White Flag - Muse, Origin of Symmetry, New Born The items on the play list are not what I would be choosing to demonstrate a Class A amplifier, nor am I convinced that FLAC 16/44.1 files would be suitable source. Having owned quite a few Class A amps the benefits that I hear are in the upper mid to tweeter range. I'd be looking to use music with clarinets, flutes, violins, trumpets, right hand piano etc Whilst I'm am not familiar with every track on the playlist, personally I wouldn't even bother using any Lead Zeppelin (and I'm a Zep fan) recordings as a Class A test, they are simply not quality masters in the area that Class A excels. That said I'm somewhat surprised that the violins in Where The Wild Roses Grow weren't more noted in the Class A listening. Perhaps it's the almost 20 year old recording with its rampant compression and FM radio ready sound that is the route of the missing sound difference. A Class A listing session that doesn't have some vinyl, quality CD player and SACD sources is probably not going to reveal all that is there to hear. That said the quality of Emotiva Class AB amplification doesn't leave a lot of room for anything above it. Cheers Gary Maybe someone can briefly post what the advantage of class A is over class AB? What sort of audible improvements is it supposed to make?
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Post by deltadube on Feb 22, 2014 22:31:56 GMT -5
Hello everyone, As said previously some friends and I tested a few amps yesterday, in different setups. Amps at our disposal : 2x XPA-1 G1 2x XPA-1 G2 2x XPA-100 2x XPA-1L yes, that's 3200W of monoblock power and 440 pounds to move around ;o) Our main goal was to test bi-amping and see what it was worth using in bi-amping configuration. Then we wanted to compare the XPA-1 G1 to G2 and some speaker cables, which was a bit too much for our brains after 5 hours of tests! Setup: - speakers were a pair of Triangle Magellan Cello - interconnect were 4x Vovox Sonorus Direct XLR - speaker cable 4x Emo X SS speaker cables 2m Playlist (all FLAC 16/44.1): - Led Zeppelin, Mothership, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You - Katie Melua, Collection, Closest Thing to Crazy - Joe Satriani, Live in San Francisco, Bass Solo (actually Stuart Hamm) - Kylie Minogue and Nick Cave, Where The Wild Roses Grow - Buena Vista Social Club, Chan Chan - Dido, Life For Rent, White Flag - Muse, Origin of Symmetry, New Born Plus a few others when we felt like it, but these ones we listened to in every config. We started with just the 1L's, that were warmed up in the main room. The G2's were warming up in another room. We listened to them for a while, going through our reference playlist. We tried switching the class-A switch but none of us could tell a difference. Then we brought the G2's over, plugged them in and listened to just that. We found a noticeable difference, as if the 1L's were reined-in in comparison. Whatever was reined-in with the 1L's was let loose with the G2's. Here to we tried to find a difference with the class-A switch but failed to hear anything. Either it needs an educated ear which we don't have or class-A mode needs more warming up... Then we tested bi-amping, G2's for the bass and 1L's for medium/treble. Very noticeable change, more separation between the highs and lows, a bit more volume on the bass. Very nice improvement, we were sure by then this was the direction to go. We played some tracks just for the enjoyment of it before resuming the tests. We replaced the 1L's by the XPA-100 for the medium/treble, to see if the symmetry and class A capability were really needed in such a usage : yes, they are. We returned quickly to the 1L's. Then, just to be sure, we used the G1's for the highs, instead of the 1L's. We hesitated to do this test as it meant moving the massive amps again and it was certainly overkill anyway. Well, turns out there's no overkill in that matter! That was beautiful! balanced, dynamic, clear, and all the medium/treble that we were unaware to be eaten up during loud parts were completely present. Major difference in Newborn and Babe I'm Gonna Leave You. By then our ears were a bit tired and the joy of the experience left us without focus to do the other tests. We continued nevertheless, not to have done the effort of gathering all this gear for nothing, to compare the G1's and G2's and some speaker cables. We found no major difference in the speaker cables we wanted to compare, and same thing with G1 vs G2. maybe we were just deaf by then, or the difference is so subtle that we could not tell them apart after the time neede to turn off unplug/ turn on replug. Today we did the same bi-amping G1+G2 setup at another place, with a friend owning a pair of B&W 802, same wow effect! All in all, with the pricing of each product, you really get what you pay for. Now I know what I want for christmas ;O) I hope this answered a few questions! Edit : picture of the setup in attachments this sure is a great comparison.. wish I could have so many amps to play with... thanks..
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 23, 2014 1:41:12 GMT -5
Maybe someone can briefly post what the advantage of class A is over class AB? What sort of audible improvements is it supposed to make? This is what I hear, with my ears using my speakers in my room, we'll not at the moment as I don't have any Class A amplifiers currently. Class A amps don't have any cross over like a Class AB amp so they don't have any cross over distortion. Not saying that Class AB amps have lots, good ones have practically none. Just that a Class A amps have zero. With that in mind I have found that Class A amps sound better, clearer, crisper, cleaner in the higher frequencies particularly. In mid and lower frequencies I find it hard to pick any differences. As a result I find it not unusual or unexpected that listeners frequently can't pick any differences between Class A and Class AB given equally quality equipment. The source music itself, the source hardware and the speakers ability to reproduce what they are being fed all have importance. If I was doing a comparison, as I mentioned in the previous post, I would be looking to well recorded, dynamic performances with violins, clarinets, trumpets and right hand piano. As much as I am a Zep, their recordings are simply not up to such a comparison. Cheers Gary
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Post by kellys on Apr 15, 2014 0:18:01 GMT -5
Hello everyone, As said previously some friends and I tested a few amps yesterday, in different setups. Amps at our disposal : 2x XPA-1 G1 2x XPA-1 G2 2x XPA-100 2x XPA-1L yes, that's 3200W of monoblock power and 440 pounds to move around ;o) Our main goal was to test bi-amping and see what it was worth using in bi-amping configuration. Then we wanted to compare the XPA-1 G1 to G2 and some speaker cables, which was a bit too much for our brains after 5 hours of tests! Setup: - speakers were a pair of Triangle Magellan Cello - interconnect were 4x Vovox Sonorus Direct XLR - speaker cable 4x Emo X SS speaker cables 2m Playlist (all FLAC 16/44.1): - Led Zeppelin, Mothership, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You - Katie Melua, Collection, Closest Thing to Crazy - Joe Satriani, Live in San Francisco, Bass Solo (actually Stuart Hamm) - Kylie Minogue and Nick Cave, Where The Wild Roses Grow - Buena Vista Social Club, Chan Chan - Dido, Life For Rent, White Flag - Muse, Origin of Symmetry, New Born Plus a few others when we felt like it, but these ones we listened to in every config. We started with just the 1L's, that were warmed up in the main room. The G2's were warming up in another room. We listened to them for a while, going through our reference playlist. We tried switching the class-A switch but none of us could tell a difference. Then we brought the G2's over, plugged them in and listened to just that. We found a noticeable difference, as if the 1L's were reined-in in comparison. Whatever was reined-in with the 1L's was let loose with the G2's. Here to we tried to find a difference with the class-A switch but failed to hear anything. Either it needs an educated ear which we don't have or class-A mode needs more warming up... Then we tested bi-amping, G2's for the bass and 1L's for medium/treble. Very noticeable change, more separation between the highs and lows, a bit more volume on the bass. Very nice improvement, we were sure by then this was the direction to go. We played some tracks just for the enjoyment of it before resuming the tests. We replaced the 1L's by the XPA-100 for the medium/treble, to see if the symmetry and class A capability were really needed in such a usage : yes, they are. We returned quickly to the 1L's. Then, just to be sure, we used the G1's for the highs, instead of the 1L's. We hesitated to do this test as it meant moving the massive amps again and it was certainly overkill anyway. Well, turns out there's no overkill in that matter! That was beautiful! balanced, dynamic, clear, and all the medium/treble that we were unaware to be eaten up during loud parts were completely present. Major difference in Newborn and Babe I'm Gonna Leave You. By then our ears were a bit tired and the joy of the experience left us without focus to do the other tests. We continued nevertheless, not to have done the effort of gathering all this gear for nothing, to compare the G1's and G2's and some speaker cables. We found no major difference in the speaker cables we wanted to compare, and same thing with G1 vs G2. maybe we were just deaf by then, or the difference is so subtle that we could not tell them apart after the time neede to turn off unplug/ turn on replug. Today we did the same bi-amping G1+G2 setup at another place, with a friend owning a pair of B&W 802, same wow effect! All in all, with the pricing of each product, you really get what you pay for. Now I know what I want for christmas ;O) I hope this answered a few questions! Edit : picture of the setup in attachments Based on the above I decide to go with a pair of user XPA-1 G1 amps over a pair of new XPA-1Ls. Got a pretty good deal on them. I will probably never have a chance to listen to them both side by side... doesn't matter. I am very Happy with my purchase. These amps around great! Thanks for the comparison.
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Post by amaheshw on Apr 17, 2014 13:23:14 GMT -5
Hello everyone, As said previously some friends and I tested a few amps yesterday, in different setups. Amps at our disposal : 2x XPA-1 G1 2x XPA-1 G2 2x XPA-100 2x XPA-1L yes, that's 3200W of monoblock power and 440 pounds to move around ;o) Our main goal was to test bi-amping and see what it was worth using in bi-amping configuration. Then we wanted to compare the XPA-1 G1 to G2 and some speaker cables, which was a bit too much for our brains after 5 hours of tests! Setup: - speakers were a pair of Triangle Magellan Cello - interconnect were 4x Vovox Sonorus Direct XLR - speaker cable 4x Emo X SS speaker cables 2m Playlist (all FLAC 16/44.1): - Led Zeppelin, Mothership, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You - Katie Melua, Collection, Closest Thing to Crazy - Joe Satriani, Live in San Francisco, Bass Solo (actually Stuart Hamm) - Kylie Minogue and Nick Cave, Where The Wild Roses Grow - Buena Vista Social Club, Chan Chan - Dido, Life For Rent, White Flag - Muse, Origin of Symmetry, New Born Plus a few others when we felt like it, but these ones we listened to in every config. We started with just the 1L's, that were warmed up in the main room. The G2's were warming up in another room. We listened to them for a while, going through our reference playlist. We tried switching the class-A switch but none of us could tell a difference. Then we brought the G2's over, plugged them in and listened to just that. We found a noticeable difference, as if the 1L's were reined-in in comparison. Whatever was reined-in with the 1L's was let loose with the G2's. Here to we tried to find a difference with the class-A switch but failed to hear anything. Either it needs an educated ear which we don't have or class-A mode needs more warming up... Then we tested bi-amping, G2's for the bass and 1L's for medium/treble. Very noticeable change, more separation between the highs and lows, a bit more volume on the bass. Very nice improvement, we were sure by then this was the direction to go. We played some tracks just for the enjoyment of it before resuming the tests. We replaced the 1L's by the XPA-100 for the medium/treble, to see if the symmetry and class A capability were really needed in such a usage : yes, they are. We returned quickly to the 1L's. Then, just to be sure, we used the G1's for the highs, instead of the 1L's. We hesitated to do this test as it meant moving the massive amps again and it was certainly overkill anyway. Well, turns out there's no overkill in that matter! That was beautiful! balanced, dynamic, clear, and all the medium/treble that we were unaware to be eaten up during loud parts were completely present. Major difference in Newborn and Babe I'm Gonna Leave You. By then our ears were a bit tired and the joy of the experience left us without focus to do the other tests. We continued nevertheless, not to have done the effort of gathering all this gear for nothing, to compare the G1's and G2's and some speaker cables. We found no major difference in the speaker cables we wanted to compare, and same thing with G1 vs G2. maybe we were just deaf by then, or the difference is so subtle that we could not tell them apart after the time neede to turn off unplug/ turn on replug. Today we did the same bi-amping G1+G2 setup at another place, with a friend owning a pair of B&W 802, same wow effect! All in all, with the pricing of each product, you really get what you pay for. Now I know what I want for christmas ;O) I hope this answered a few questions! Edit : picture of the setup in attachments Based on the above I decide to go with a pair of user XPA-1 G1 amps over a pair of new XPA-1Ls. Got a pretty good deal on them. I will probably never have a chance to listen to them both side by side... doesn't matter. I am very Happy with my purchase. These amps around great! Thanks for the comparison. Linvincible -- thank you very much for sharing this. Can you speculate as to what you believe caused the XPA1s to trump the 1L? Am a bit surprised that the sonic difference would be so audible. Could you also share your speakers' sensitivity and resistance to help add some context? Thank you.
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Post by amaheshw on Apr 17, 2014 13:31:26 GMT -5
Nice....review and thanks for taking the time. I myself could not tell the difference between A/B mode to pure Class A mode. Of course my ears are not the same as they use to be some forty years ago. I know when switching from A/B mode to Class A mode I was expecting to hear a revelation with my music. I could not....it still sounded amazing to me the difference I have with theXPA1 GEN2 compared to using my Outlaw 7700 amp at 200 watts. The XPA's delivered in my situation. Again thanks for the review ...good job and take care of your back. bluemeanie -- interested in learning more about the differences between your Outlaw and the XPA. Would appreciate if you could provide some specifics, as I am auditioning Outlaw amps to replace my old XPA-5.
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