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Post by novisnick on Nov 24, 2013 18:11:17 GMT -5
Hi all, my Paradigm Monoter cc-390 v6 sound muddy sometimes. Especially during speech. Other times not so much. The clarity in the beginning of Transformers DS of the Moon, the oping dialog isn't that clear. Is it my speaker or is this what you have heard? Can my center be underpowered? Or is it just that poor of a speaker?
most of the time it's ok and shows no problem, I'm thinking the opening dialog is difficult for any speaker but I'm not sure.
im running an XPA-5 to it and the surround speakers and the L/R are powered by XPR-1s but this shouldn't matter, should it? Should I be feeding it 250, 300, 500, 1000 watts?
Do I need to upgrade this speaker? The Studio cc-690 is a lot of $$$$$ but if that's the problem!,,,,,,,,,,
any suggestions on a fix or something I've overlooked.
Thanks for looking.
Peace,
Nick
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Post by Gary Cook on Nov 24, 2013 18:33:40 GMT -5
When problem solving audio I prefer the reverse direction attack. Pick a particular part of movie (your example TDSotM would do) and swap speakers. Say, plug the LF into the centre out from the XPA-5 and see if it sounds better through the LF. If it does, then it's a speaker problem. If it doesn't then move back up the chain, try an amp channel swap. Say swap the LF and centre channels from the XPA-5. If it follows the XP-5 channel then move back up the chain again and try sapping the centre channel output from the Yamaha. If it follows that channel then it's a pre map problem.
Personally I have found a few movies that are a bit dialogue soft, so I run the centre channel 2db to 4db hot to compensate. That's works, of course, if it's volume related not clarity related.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by audiobill on Nov 24, 2013 18:40:29 GMT -5
Hi all, my Paradigm Monoter cc-390 v6 sound muddy sometimes. Especially during speech. Other times not so much. The clarity in the beginning of Transformers DS of the Moon, the oping dialog isn't that clear. Is it my speaker or is this what you have heard? Can my center be underpowered? Or is it just that poor of a speaker? most of the time it's ok and shows no problem, I'm thinking the opening dialog is difficult for any speaker but I'm not sure. im running an XPA-5 to it and the surround speakers and the L/R are powered by XPR-1s but this shouldn't matter, should it? Should I be feeding it 250, 300, 500, 1000 watts? Do I need to upgrade this speaker? The Studio cc-690 is a lot of $$$$$ but if that's the problem!,,,,,,,,,, any suggestions on a fix or something I've overlooked. Thanks for looking. Peace, Nick Nick, I think 2-3,000 watts may do it.... |
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Post by novisnick on Nov 24, 2013 18:44:21 GMT -5
Hi all, my Paradigm Monoter cc-390 v6 sound muddy sometimes. Especially during speech. Other times not so much. The clarity in the beginning of Transformers DS of the Moon, the oping dialog isn't that clear. Is it my speaker or is this what you have heard? Can my center be underpowered? Or is it just that poor of a speaker? most of the time it's ok and shows no problem, I'm thinking the opening dialog is difficult for any speaker but I'm not sure. im running an XPA-5 to it and the surround speakers and the L/R are powered by XPR-1s but this shouldn't matter, should it? Should I be feeding it 250, 300, 500, 1000 watts? Do I need to upgrade this speaker? The Studio cc-690 is a lot of $$$$$ but if that's the problem!,,,,,,,,,, any suggestions on a fix or something I've overlooked. Thanks for looking. Peace, Nick Nick, I think 2-3,000 watts may do it.... I think not, it's prob. The speaker but could be the recorded material. Nick |
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Post by novisnick on Nov 24, 2013 19:04:27 GMT -5
Thank you for the PMs , I ( we ) have found the problem I believe. After checking all connections and inspection there is a tweeter that is not responding. I hesitate to pull the tweeter because of the warranty. It looks like an easy fix, or I may be that dumb! There are two tweeters in the center side by side. I wander if there is an upgrade I can look into, perhaps tweeters from the studio line? I'll call my local rep in the morning to see what steps to take next.
Thanks all to those that responder.
audiophill, maybe next time on the 3000 watt amp !!!,,,,,He,,,,,He,,,,,,
Peace,
Nick
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klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,083
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Post by klinemj on Nov 24, 2013 19:36:46 GMT -5
Nick...if it is muddy, wash it off!
Mark
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Post by novisnick on Nov 24, 2013 19:41:43 GMT -5
Nick...if it is muddy, wash it off! Mark I need to watch where I put that thing!,,,,,,,He,,,,,,,,,He,,,,,,,,, does Paradigm solder there speakers into the crossover? I hope not, and do you think an upgrade in tweeter is possible? If so what tweeter? Nick |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 24, 2013 20:13:47 GMT -5
Nick...if it is muddy, wash it off! Mark I need to watch where I put that thing!,,,,,,,He,,,,,,,,,He,,,,,,,,, does Paradigm solder there speakers into the crossover? I hope not, and do you think an upgrade in tweeter is possible? If so what tweeter? Nick Call paradigm for their advice especially if it's in warranty. You risk jiggly puffing things by accident otherwise. I've had experience with changing tweeters and let me tell you. They are darn flimsy things. It's not impossible at all to change. You just have to be really careful. The silver foil is very very flimsy. |
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Post by novisnick on Nov 25, 2013 17:38:58 GMT -5
Called about repair and asked if I could open it up to see if it was a loose wire. I did same after asking permission.,,,,,,I immediately closed it back up the way I found it.
The tech said there is only two wires, no big deal,,,,,,,,,,I lost count of wires,,,I'll pass. I'll be without my center for goodness knows how long.
I really don't want to move the 3 1/2 foot 50 lb oblong monstrosity!,,, but I have no choice.
It's a complicated piece of gear from the looks of it.
I'll keep y'all posted
Peace,
Nick
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Post by danny01 on Nov 25, 2013 18:14:11 GMT -5
This is a common problem with center channel speakers. When I had the Paradigm Signature C3 it would sound like that half the time. Best solution is to get a bookshelf speaker or phantom center.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using proboards
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Post by frenchyfranky on Nov 25, 2013 19:02:06 GMT -5
This past weekend I found myself that my speakers sound muddy and a few minutes after I just realized that I had drank too much Macallan... Good luck Nick for the repair and by the time you waiting for, drop your bottles.   |
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Post by novisnick on Nov 25, 2013 22:57:28 GMT -5
 Here's the three of the seven speakers in my center channel, the white one on the rite is non responsive, I assume it is the midrange speaker, I'm not sure about the tweeter now. The three speakers are in one unit with circuit board and wires everywhere. I closed it up! I'm not touching it. I can't take it to the shop until it stops raining ,,,,that will be next week! Dang! Nick |
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Post by danny01 on Nov 25, 2013 23:04:38 GMT -5
That's a midrange. It's probably just the driver that needs to be replaced if the other one is working
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using proboards
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Post by novisnick on Nov 25, 2013 23:08:09 GMT -5
That's a midrange. It's probably just the driver that needs to be replaced if the other one is working Sent from my HTC6500LVW using proboards Yep, I realize that now, but I'm not messing with it. Still not sure about the tweeter, I'll have the tech check the whole thing out while it's there. I don't abuse my gear so I guess stuff just happens. Thanks! Nick |
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Post by Gary Cook on Nov 25, 2013 23:10:11 GMT -5
View AttachmentHere's the three of the seven speakers in my center channel, the white one on the rite is non responsive, I assume it is the midrange speaker, I'm not sure about the tweeter now. The three speakers are in one unit with circuit board and wires everywhere. I closed it up! I'm not touching it. I can't take it to the shop until it stops raining ,,,,that will be next week! Dang! Nick Hi Nick, the CC-390 is a three-way design with 1 x 1" tweeter, 2 x 4.5" M-ICP midrange drivers and 4 x 6.5" carbon-infused polypropylene bass drivers. So your problem speaker is one of the midranges, rather important for a centre speaker. Cheers Gary |
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Post by novisnick on Nov 25, 2013 23:19:57 GMT -5
Important for a center speaker, I concur! This speaker is a lot more sophisticated then I thought. I guess that's why I made that purchase. That was before the deal on the 590 s.
Nick
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Post by deltadube on Nov 26, 2013 1:56:18 GMT -5
Important for a center speaker, I concur! This speaker is a lot more sophisticated then I thought. I guess that's why I made that purchase. That was before the deal on the 590 s. Nick just trade it in on some S8 and the c 5 cheers |
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spork
Emo VIPs
Posts: 152
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Post by spork on Jan 14, 2014 12:50:55 GMT -5
As others have said, the mid-range drivers on your center channel are going to be responsible for the vast majority of dialogue in a movie. As for the repair, if you send it back to Paradigm, I would not be surprised if they simply replaced the entire tweeter and mid-range assembly. I'd assume the assembly is comprised of the three drivers and their crossover network, which is most likely what the circuit board is. (This would be a common arrangement for a speaker with two pairs of input terminals, one crossover and pair of terminals leads to the woofers and the other pair of terminals handles the rest.) You would likely need to remove the circuit board/crossover to see the connections for the drivers themselves, I would guess.
Anyway, letting your dealer/Paradigm handle the repair is the right move given that the speaker is under warranty.
Given that you have identified a driver issue this advice may not be apt, but improper center channel placement can have a huge impact on dialogue as well. Sometimes all it takes to rectify a dialogue issue is to move the center channel up to the very lip of whatever cabinet it is sitting on. A decoupling pad may help as well, depending on circumstances.
Good luck!
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 14, 2014 14:07:18 GMT -5
Nick - I notice you say dialogue is muddy "some of the time?" If that's the case, then the problem is likely NOT either the center speaker or the center amp but rather the surround decoding of the processor. There are SO MANY surround schemes around that I've heard my processor make mistakes before and select the wrong decoding. The most frequent artifact of having the wrong decoding selected (in my system) has been that center dialogue can sound distorted.
Next time this happens, look at the disc jacket and note the EXACT surround decoding that it used, then look at the settings on the processor and see what surround decoding it has chosen. If the two don't match, then voila! Problem solved.
Alternately, if your processor won't tell you what codec is selected, then manually force the processor to the one matching the disc.
Hopefully, this will be the source of your problem (and no money spent to repair).
Cordially - Boom
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Post by novisnick on Jan 16, 2014 23:34:12 GMT -5
thanks boom, spork and all.The mid-range was dead and repaired by the manufacturer under warranty.Thank goodness. I was without it for7 days over the Christmas holiday. sorry for not giving yall the update.All is well and sounds fine. Thanks for the advise. I do not look forward to ever moving this speaker again unless it is to up-grade to a Studio 690 center. Peace, Nick  |
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