klinemj
Emo VIPs
Honorary Emofest Scribe
Posts: 14,742
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Post by klinemj on Apr 23, 2021 19:48:30 GMT -5
Looks like fun! Enjoy!
Mark
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Post by jackfish on Apr 23, 2021 20:02:18 GMT -5
Which 2-in / 1-out switch will you use?
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Post by boomzilla on Apr 23, 2021 21:22:44 GMT -5
Which 2-in / 1-out switch will you use? The subwoofer switch is a $9.99 "Panlong." I'll use but one of the analog channels for switching the monophonic subwoofer outputs of the two integrated amplifiers: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KXVBB8Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1The speaker switch is a $64.99 "Specialty AV" brand switch with banana jacks. The speaker wires from the amps to the switch will be about 3' long (I built them myself). The wires from the switch to the speakers will be Carnare bi-wire cables. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KXVBB8Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1The only caveat with this rig is that I'll need to avoid having the tube amp on with an input signal while having the speakers disconnected from the outputs. The other option would be to wire about a 16 ohm resistor in parallel with each of the the speaker outputs. That would make the rig "dummy-proof" and avoid unforeseen consequences of ill-advised actions by whomever was using the rig. Purists will sneer at the complexity of this, but I think that any reduction of sound quality will probably be inaudible. If I'm wrong, then I'm back to swapping interconnects and wires when I want to switch between tubes and transistors, but that isn't the end of the world either. The main thing that I like about these switches is that they're both "passive." Neither has a power supply nor a pilot light. Just straight on mechanical switching. Boomzilla
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Post by boomzilla on Apr 25, 2021 9:49:43 GMT -5
To tell the truth, I'm really enjoying my Emotiva BasX TA-100 integrated amplifier! I'd almost forgotten how good this thing is. It benefits from about a 15-minute warmup before use, but once "on song," it's an excellent match with my current Klipsch RP-600m speakers and RP-12SW sub. And before anyone smears the idea of cheap speakers & sub, let me tell you that they're competitive with many if not most of the FAR more expensive speakers I review - in my room!
In a bigger room, or at a higher volume, they might not be so good, but I listen softly, and my room isn't auditorium-sized. My wife even likes them, and she's notoriously picky about speakers. Who am I to blow against the wind?
Boomzilla
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Post by cheapthryl on Apr 26, 2021 10:01:18 GMT -5
Hey Boom, Danny Richie (GR Research) redesigned the crossovers for those speakers. Claims a large improvement. Sells them out the door for owner install or you send him your speakers to Texas. Has a you tube video.
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Post by boomzilla on Apr 26, 2021 10:27:27 GMT -5
Hey Boom, Danny Richie (GR Research) redesigned the crossovers for those speakers. Claims a large improvement. Sells them out the door for owner install or you send him your speakers to Texas. Has a you tube video. If I recall, the primary driver for crossover redesign was a dip that occurred if (and only if) the tweeters were below ear level. I've got mine up on 29" stands, and the woofers are at ear level with the tweeters slightly higher. At that height, the dip disappears, and the speakers are FAR more linear. But I'll check out Mr. Richie anyway - thanks for the suggestion! Boom
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Post by mgbpuff on Apr 26, 2021 10:33:07 GMT -5
Which 2-in / 1-out switch will you use? The subwoofer switch is a $9.99 "Panlong." I'll use but one of the analog channels for switching the monophonic subwoofer outputs of the two integrated amplifiers: www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KXVBB8Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1The speaker switch is a $64.99 "Specialty AV" brand switch with banana jacks. The speaker wires from the amps to the switch will be about 3' long (I built them myself). The wires from the switch to the speakers will be Carnare bi-wire cables. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KXVBB8Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1The only caveat with this rig is that I'll need to avoid having the tube amp on with an input signal while having the speakers disconnected from the outputs. The other option would be to wire about a 16 ohm resistor in parallel with each of the the speaker outputs. That would make the rig "dummy-proof" and avoid unforeseen consequences of ill-advised actions by whomever was using the rig. Purists will sneer at the complexity of this, but I think that any reduction of sound quality will probably be inaudible. If I'm wrong, then I'm back to swapping interconnects and wires when I want to switch between tubes and transistors, but that isn't the end of the world either. The main thing that I like about these switches is that they're both "passive." Neither has a power supply nor a pilot light. Just straight on mechanical switching. Boomzilla I have that same Specialty AV switch which I use to switch a pair of Zu speakers between a Cary solid state Integrated or a Melody tube integrated amp. Works great and don't worry about the tube amp becoming unloaded - there are built in minimum load resistors in the switcher.
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Post by boomzilla on May 12, 2021 8:05:03 GMT -5
I want a device that will take two stereo channels and output a mono combined channel without reducing the separation of the original stereo channels. Any idea who makes one of those?
Thanks - Boomzilla
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Post by mgbpuff on May 12, 2021 8:24:36 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2021 8:44:00 GMT -5
I want a device that will take two stereo channels and output a mono combined channel without reducing the separation of the original stereo channels. Any idea who makes one of those? Thanks - Boomzilla Minidsp 2x4 and 2x4 HD as well as DDRC24 w/ added Dirac Live room correction. The two in and four outputs allow each channel in or both channels in to be summed or mono to one or more subs through the software plugin. Seen below are each stereo input 1 or 2 and 4 outputs - one may mono output to two-four subwoofers. One can easily select a single mono output rather than two mono outputs.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on May 12, 2021 8:51:10 GMT -5
Unfortunately, while the requirement is simple, the solutions often are not.
The simplest way to do this involves a pair of resistors (net cost about $1). This way provides no isolation, but also introduces no distortion or noise. (And you do have to select appropriate values to avoid reducing the separation on the source signals.)
In contrast, both of the products in that link seem to contain TRANSFORMERS. Transformers provide an extra layer of isolation - which can offer additional benefits. HOWEVER, transformers, and especially low cost ones, also tend to introduce distortion, and sometimes noise, to the signal.
I think I would be looking at something like this instead:
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Post by boomzilla on May 12, 2021 9:22:49 GMT -5
Thanks, gents! After further consideration, I'm thinking that it may not matter for my particular case. Resistors / transformers / dead short may all produce the same result. Why?
The preamp outputs that I want to mono come from a preamplifier with two types of output jacks. One set is balanced. These will be feeding mono power amps. The other set is unbalanced RCA. But this is a fancy preamp, and I've no doubt that even the unbalanced outputs have an output buffer amplifier per channel. Even if I just shorted the two positive channel signals (but not the grounds), the internal buffer amps of the preamp would maintain separation and the balanced outputs to the power amplifiers would be completely unaffected.
Of the solutions mentioned, the transformer option should provide the most gain to the mono output. The Douk Mixer would have rheostats in the signal path and some of the preamp output voltage would be lost (presumably) to the ground taps of the pots? That wouldn't be a problem either, because I can compensate with the gain pot on the subwoofer amp.
Since the mono feed is going to an already relatively high distortion subwoofer, there should be no distortion concerns. The deciding factor may be price. The transformer model costs twice as much as the simple mixer. I already have ground isolation by way of the Emotiva wireless transmitters I use, so I'm not sure that the noise-isolation virtues of the transformer model mean anything to me.
Thanks for the feedback - it's appreciated!
Boom
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Post by boomzilla on May 12, 2021 9:27:17 GMT -5
Minidsp 2x4 and 2x4 HD as well as DDRC24 w/ added Dirac Live room correction... Since I'm working with an analog signal coming out of the preamp, and since I don't want the room correction, I'm thinking that the MiniDSP isn't for me. It would work, and work well since this is to be a subwoofer feed, but it seems a lot of complication and cost for little gain. I'll keep it in mind, though should I want to go full crossover in the future. Thanks! Boom
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2021 9:28:29 GMT -5
Thanks, gents! After further consideration, I'm thinking that it may not matter for my particular case. Resistors / transformers / dead short may all produce the same result. Why? The preamp outputs that I want to mono come from a preamplifier with two types of output jacks. One set is balanced. These will be feeding mono power amps. The other set is unbalanced RCA. But this is a fancy preamp, and I've no doubt that even the unbalanced outputs have an output buffer amplifier per channel. Even if I just shorted the two positive channel signals (but not the grounds), the internal buffer amps of the preamp would maintain separation and the balanced outputs to the power amplifiers would be completely unaffected. Of the solutions mentioned, the transformer option should provide the most gain to the mono output. The Douk Mixer would have rheostats in the signal path and some of the preamp output voltage would be lost (presumably) to the ground taps of the pots? That wouldn't be a problem either, because I can compensate with the gain pot on the subwoofer amp. Since the mono feed is going to an already relatively high distortion subwoofer, there should be no distortion concerns. The deciding factor may be price. The transformer model costs twice as much as the simple mixer. I already have ground isolation by way of the Emotiva wireless transmitters I use, so I'm not sure that the noise-isolation virtues of the transformer model mean anything to me. Thanks for the feedback - it's appreciated! Boom The minidsp is analog or digital in and analog output. You can select from various inputs... if analog the unit will go between your preamp and amps..... The nice thing about the minidsp is you'll not only have the ability to trim the gain, add crossover of the mono output but also Eq as well as load Rew filters or utilize Dirac Live. The 2x4 HD runs round 250 bucks new with custom charges if purchased from minidsp but it is available on Amazon..... you have the option of either upgrading the 2x4 HD to a DDRC24 for another 200 which includes Dirac Live or you can just purchase a DDRC24 new. I recently purchased a 2x4HD used for 80 bucks...... Lastly, because you're mentioning voltage the 2x4 has selectable 2 or 4 volt outputs for the RCAs. Think about the flexibility Boom and how it can be integrated for future additions and changes in your system!
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Post by mgbpuff on May 12, 2021 9:38:32 GMT -5
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Post by boomzilla on May 12, 2021 9:42:51 GMT -5
The minidsp is analog or digital in and analog output. You can select from various inputs... The nice thing about the minidsp is you'll not only have the ability to trim the gain, add crossover of the mono output but also Eq as well as load Rew filters or utilize Dirac Live. The 2x4 HD runs round 250 bucks new..... you have the option of either upgrading the 2x4 HD to a DDRC24 for another 200 which includes Dirac Live or you can just purchase a DDRC24 new. I recently purchased a 2x4HD used for 80 bucks...... Lastly, because you're mentioning voltage the 2x4 has selectable 2 or 4 volt outputs for the RCAs. If I'm going to bother with DSP, I'd want to apply it upstream of the DAC. But I just noticed that I already own a solution to the entire issue (I'd forgotten about it). My Dayton Audio DSP-LF uses stereo unbalanced inputs and can be configured (via its iPhone app) to output either stereo or mono signals. It also has highly flexible room correction! And best of all, it doesn't affect the satellite speakers at all. So the easiest lineup for me is: Stereo unbalanced outputs of the preamp directly into the Dayton DSP-LF. The mono DSP-LF output to the Emotiva "Virtual Copper" wireless transmitter. The Emotiva wireless receiver to the sub. Done! Boom (or should it be "Boomless")?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2021 9:45:19 GMT -5
The minidsp is analog or digital in and analog output. You can select from various inputs... The nice thing about the minidsp is you'll not only have the ability to trim the gain, add crossover of the mono output but also Eq as well as load Rew filters or utilize Dirac Live. The 2x4 HD runs round 250 bucks new..... you have the option of either upgrading the 2x4 HD to a DDRC24 for another 200 which includes Dirac Live or you can just purchase a DDRC24 new. I recently purchased a 2x4HD used for 80 bucks...... Lastly, because you're mentioning voltage the 2x4 has selectable 2 or 4 volt outputs for the RCAs. If I'm going to bother with DSP, I'd want to apply it upstream of the DAC. But I just noticed that I already own a solution to the entire issue (I'd forgotten about it). My Dayton Audio DSP-LF uses stereo unbalanced inputs and can be configured (via its iPhone app) to output either stereo or mono signals. It also has highly flexible room correction! And best of all, it doesn't affect the satellite speakers at all. So the easiest lineup for me is: Stereo unbalanced outputs of the preamp directly into the Dayton DSP-LF. The mono DSP-LF output to the Emotiva "Virtual Copper" wireless transmitter. The Emotiva wireless receiver to the sub. Done! Boom (or should it be "Boomless")? Sounds like your best remedy, Boom! Happy listening!
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Post by boomzilla on May 12, 2021 9:52:12 GMT -5
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Post by boomzilla on May 13, 2021 11:05:51 GMT -5
I've had my differences with Mr. Robinson in the past (and still don't agree with him 100%), but this is one of the very best videos he's done, and I recommend it to anyone & everyone: www.youtube.com/watch?v=enJZqpOY3JIBravo, Andrew!
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Post by boomzilla on May 26, 2021 18:57:40 GMT -5
The tube integrated amp is more dynamic than my TA-100. And although the mondo-wallahunga dynamics sound better on some material, the results aren’t universal.
So if the tube amp is the papa bear of dynamics, and the TA-100 is the baby bear, maybe my MOSFET power amp will be the “just-right” option?
The MOSFET has the glare-avoidance of the tube amp in the treble and the tuneful bass of the solid-state TA-100. Any “touch-up” can be done via my Schiit Loki.
So if this works, are my Black-Ice F22 and my TA-100 up for sale? Stay tuned...
And the results are: Not bad! An Audidoquest Dragonfly on the Mac mini's port is providing analog audio directly into the power amp input. Better sounding than either of the two integrated amps? I can't say yet & need to listen some more.
And, after extensive listening (and slight tweaking of frequency response via the Schiit Loki and of room acoustics via the diffuser panels - now on rollers), I’d say that it’s a total tie between the TA-100, the Black Ice F-22, and the “pro” Ashly power amp. Each have their individual strengths and weaknesses, but all sound spectacular in their own way. So it’s closet cleaning time again!
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