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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 15, 2022 18:25:55 GMT -5
Things that will be posted soon in the Emporium (once I research prices):
Emotiva Big Ego+ DAC
Topping D10s DAC
Emotiva PT1 preamp
Additional things that I’m selling, but am unwilling to ship(mentioned only in case you’d like to pick up in Baton Rouge):
Crown PSA-2 power amplifier
AB “pro” power amps (2)
Klipsch 12” subwoofer
Klipsch RP-600m speakers on 29” stands
More as the closets get cleaned…
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Post by geebo on Sept 15, 2022 20:43:30 GMT -5
Things that will be posted soon in the Emporium (once I research prices): Emotiva Big Ego+ DAC Topping D10s DAC Emotiva PT1 preamp Additional things that I’m selling, but am unwilling to ship(mentioned only in case you’d like to pick up in Baton Rouge): Crown PSA-2 power amplifier AB “pro” power amps (2) Klipsch 12” subwoofer Klipsch RP-600m speakers on 29” stands More as the closets get cleaned… Can't you just return the Topping D10s to Amazon. If not satisfied with it you should return it. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 15, 2022 22:17:22 GMT -5
It wasn’t an Amazon Prime purchase. It shipped from China.
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Post by mauriceminor on Sept 15, 2022 22:23:22 GMT -5
AMAZON LESSON LEARNED: I used to think that all Amazon Prime purchases could be delivered in two to four days. But lately, I’ve made Amazon Prime purchases that shipped from CHINA, and that won’t arrive for a MONTH or more. I looked over Amazon to see if I could specify a preference for domestic stores only, but the only such option I found was for business customers only. Mr. Bezos isn’t impressing me much here… I see that you now are about to list it for sale I am curious as to when it arrived Considering ordering a different Topping product |
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Post by leonski on Sept 16, 2022 1:42:19 GMT -5
If the original is lossless you absolutely want a bit-accurate copy of the original... there's nothing to be gained by upsampling. If the original is LOSSY then you want to either leave it alone or convert to lossless... In that case I would go with 24/96k or 24/192k FLAC (that's probably overkill and 16/44k would probably be fine for most MP3 and AAC content). DSF is a DSD variant... I'm personally not a fan of DSD so I would just go with 24/192 PCM there... But, if you care about DSD, you should be able to find a more or less lossless DSF-to-DSD converter somewhere. Also note that: - of course a lossless conversion will be identical (so WAV / FLAC / ALAC to the same bit depth and sample rate) - conversions from LOSSY formats like MP3 or AAC may be slightly different with different converters - conversions from DSD to PCM (and vice versa) will DEFINITELY be different with different converters - conversions to different sample rates will also be slightly different with different converters (even though there will be no loss of quality going, for example, from 16/44 to24/192, the results with different converters may be a tiny bit different) Any format that produces a Bit Accurate copy of the original should be fine. I use ALAC, but my needs are quite simple.... MP3-160 on my phone conserves space and is FINE in the car where 'critial' applies only to not crashing.... Keith.....I just saw this and must really disagree. You can't go UPHILL with quality. Only down. So making a lossless copy of an MP3? Waste of time. That is why, with my photography I ONLY use some version of camera RAW. That way I can make any number or size or crop of the image IN JPG and be able to print anywhere. It uses a lot of memory, but in the long run makes the best image. Same with music. Start with the BEST file you can and you can always downgrade to some MP3 size or whatever else floats your boat. You just can't go BACK to a bit accurate copy of any file when starting with an MP3...... |
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 16, 2022 2:57:27 GMT -5
I see that you now are about to list it for sale I am curious as to when it arrived Considering ordering a different Topping product Arrived a few days ago. I will NOT be considering another Topping product. I bought this based on excellent measurements and a positive recommendation by Amir of audiosciencereview.com. Despite the measurements, this Topping D10s sounds BAD compared to my older Emotiva Stealth DAC. How so? The Topping produces significantly poorer imaging. The Stealth provides a deep center image and width (with a capable recording) that significantly exceeds the width of the speakers. The Topping, in comparison, truncates both depth and width. The Topping sounds dryer in the midrange. Female voices, in particular, sound less realistic with the Topping (regardless of file type, bit depth, or sampling rate). How can a device that measures so well sound so bad? I don’t know. Perhaps the Topping just lacks synergy with the rest of my system? But whatever the reason, this just isn’t the DAC for me. I could probably return it to the vendor for a full refund, but it isn’t the vendor’s fault that a properly-functioning product just doesn’t sound good in my system. I’d rather lose $20-$25 than have the innocent vendor pay for shipping back to Taiwan. I can afford the loss, and I consider my lesson learned to be worth my loss: Excellent measurements are no guarantee of excellent sound! Boom |
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Post by mauriceminor on Sept 16, 2022 4:29:54 GMT -5
I am not considering another DAC
I am considering the Topping PRE90 preamp
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Post by geebo on Sept 16, 2022 9:53:46 GMT -5
I see that you now are about to list it for sale I am curious as to when it arrived Considering ordering a different Topping product Arrived a few days ago. I will NOT be considering another Topping product. I bought this based on excellent measurements and a positive recommendation by Amir of audiosciencereview.com. Despite the measurements, this Topping D10s sounds BAD compared to my older Emotiva Stealth DAC. How so? The Topping produces significantly poorer imaging. The Stealth provides a deep center image and width (with a capable recording) that significantly exceeds the width of the speakers. The Topping, in comparison, truncates both depth and width. The Topping sounds dryer in the midrange. Female voices, in particular, sound less realistic with the Topping (regardless of file type, bit depth, or sampling rate). How can a device that measures so well sound so bad? I don’t know. Perhaps the Topping just lacks synergy with the rest of my system? But whatever the reason, this just isn’t the DAC for me. I could probably return it to the vendor for a full refund, but it isn’t the vendor’s fault that a properly-functioning product just doesn’t sound good in my system. I’d rather lose $20-$25 than have the innocent vendor pay for shipping back to Taiwan. I can afford the loss, and I consider my lesson learned to be worth my loss: Excellent measurements are no guarantee of excellent sound! Boom What have you decided to do with the .dsf files? Conversion to FLAC is a good option but it's not a bit perfect conversion. Still, the converted files sound very good if the .dsf version sounds good. |
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Post by audiobill on Sept 16, 2022 10:53:07 GMT -5
I see that you now are about to list it for sale I am curious as to when it arrived Considering ordering a different Topping product Arrived a few days ago. I will NOT be considering another Topping product. I bought this based on excellent measurements and a positive recommendation by Amir of audiosciencereview.com. Despite the measurements, this Topping D10s sounds BAD compared to my older Emotiva Stealth DAC. How so? The Topping produces significantly poorer imaging. The Stealth provides a deep center image and width (with a capable recording) that significantly exceeds the width of the speakers. The Topping, in comparison, truncates both depth and width. The Topping sounds dryer in the midrange. Female voices, in particular, sound less realistic with the Topping (regardless of file type, bit depth, or sampling rate). How can a device that measures so well sound so bad? I don’t know. Perhaps the Topping just lacks synergy with the rest of my system? But whatever the reason, this just isn’t the DAC for me. I could probably return it to the vendor for a full refund, but it isn’t the vendor’s fault that a properly-functioning product just doesn’t sound good in my system. I’d rather lose $20-$25 than have the innocent vendor pay for shipping back to Taiwan. I can afford the loss, and I consider my lesson learned to be worth my loss: Excellent measurements are no guarantee of excellent sound! BoomThese days, it's all about the power supply (robust and quiet) and the analog output stage widerange and quiet) - |
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 16, 2022 11:45:46 GMT -5
What have you decided to do with the .dsf files? Conversion to FLAC is a good option but it's not a bit perfect conversion. Still, the converted files sound very good if the .dsf version sounds good. Hi geebo, and thanks for the recommendation - Yes, I did convert all the .dsf files to .flac ones. I chose the option because a) My Roon player likes Flac files, and will pass them without fuss and b) as you say, the converted files sound pretty good! I also opted to convert the .m4a files to .flac for the same reasons. Unfortunately, I didn't find the option in dB-PowerAmp to automatically delete the converted source files, so I'm batch moving them to trash today. Glenn |
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 16, 2022 11:58:45 GMT -5
BoomThese days, it's all about the power supply (robust and quiet) and the analog output stage widerange and quiet) I think you're exactly right audiobill - Like the AudioQuest Dragonfly and the Emotiva Big Ego products, the Topping D10s is not independently powered. It derives its DC from the USB port that it's connected to. With whatever power it can get via USB, it must: * Do the DAC conversion * Power the internal LED display * Buffer & transmit the outgoing analog signal to the destination preamplifier that may vary in impedance, depending on the preamp used * Provide coaxial & optical conversion should the user decide to use those outputs The device is also competing for power on the source computer's output USB bus with other devices including: 1. External USB HDD (including read/write functions) 2. Mouse 3. Keyboard 4. DVDRW (when ripping discs) 5. Any other USB device(s) being run by the source I've noticed that when transferring files from one external USB HDD to another, it isn't uncommon for my computer to slow or stop the process because the load on the USB bus was excessive (and THAT's with independently-powered USB drives). So it's quite possible that my (potentially wimpy) USB bus has something to do with how the Topping D10s sounds on my system. That would explain why the Emotiva Stealth DC1 (with its own power supply) sounds much better. Cheers - Glenn |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 16, 2022 12:46:17 GMT -5
You're actually talking about two entirely separate issues - both of which can have an effect on the final result. (The USB data bus and the USB power lines are separate and pretty much independent.) The power on the USB output is derived from the computer's main +5V supply. This has the potential to vary, or be noisy, and the ground that goes with it also has the potential to be noisy. Therefore the DAC has to do some - hopefully sufficient - filtering. The power supply also affects the analog circuitry in the DAC. This must either operate from the limited +5V single ended USB supply... Or use additional SMPS-type circuitry to derive higher rail voltages to power the analog circuitry. The USB data bus must be able to send the audio data to the DAC without any significant variations or dropouts. Assuming the DAC has an asynch input it should be relatively immune to jitter... And it shouldn't be significantly affected by sharing the bus with other devices (which it's going to have to do either way). (But it may still be affected by "signal quality" to a slight degree.) However, the DC-1 has a rather complex power supply, with multiple independently filtered outputs, for several different critical parts of the conversion circuitry. (Odds are the Topping does not.) BoomThese days, it's all about the power supply (robust and quiet) and the analog output stage widerange and quiet) I think you're exactly right audiobill - Like the AudioQuest Dragonfly and the Emotiva Big Ego products, the Topping D10s is not independently powered. It derives its DC from the USB port that it's connected to. With whatever power it can get via USB, it must: * Do the DAC conversion * Power the internal LED display * Buffer & transmit the outgoing analog signal to the destination preamplifier that may vary in impedance, depending on the preamp used * Provide coaxial & optical conversion should the user decide to use those outputs The device is also competing for power on the source computer's output USB bus with other devices including: 1. External USB HDD (including read/write functions) 2. Mouse 3. Keyboard 4. DVDRW (when ripping discs) 5. Any other USB device(s) being run by the source I've noticed that when transferring files from one external USB HDD to another, it isn't uncommon for my computer to slow or stop the process because the load on the USB bus was excessive (and THAT's with independently-powered USB drives). So it's quite possible that my (potentially wimpy) USB bus has something to do with how the Topping D10s sounds on my system. That would explain why the Emotiva Stealth DC1 (with its own power supply) sounds much better. Cheers - Glenn |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Sept 16, 2022 13:18:48 GMT -5
You're quite right... technically you cannot do much to improve the quality of an MP3 file... and there's no way to get back the original. However, even though the decoding process for MP3 files is supposed to be "standard", there are sometimes tiny differences in the outputs of different decoders. So, by converting it into a lossless format, if there are slight differences in the output with different converters, you get to "convert it and lock it in" with the decoder whose output you prefer. It's also worth pointing out that, sadly, sometimes the MP3 version IS the best version available... And, if you really like a specific song, and it is ONLY available in MP3, there actually are a few processing options that can sometimes achieve a significant improvement... For example, iZotope RX has an option called Spectral Recovery, which does a decent job of "rebuilding" missing upper harmonics. (It also includes a whole bunch of options for attempting to repair other problems... many of which at least sometimes really do enable you to achieve a significant improvement.) (I normally wouldn't tamper with a good quality original but I'm not above doing a bit of work to clean things up if I'm stuck with a poor quality "only-copy" of a song I really like.) And, finally, there are a lot of variations in the MP3 encoding format. Because of this I've actually run into situations where a certain player would refuse to play a certain MP3 file properly - or at all - even though it would play on other players. By converting them into FLAC when I receive them, which I know the players I use can all handle properly, I can preemptively "take care of this up front". (That way I don't ever "whip out an old MP3 file and find that it won't play on Foobar2000, or Volumio, or whatever I'm using today".) Incidentally, while *I* also usually shoot pictures in RAW format, and would always prefer at least a lossless image... I do end up with a lot of lower quality pictures from my phone (and the pictures other people send me are virtually always JPeGs.) And there are some processing options available these days that can deliver near-miraculous improvements with less-than-great originals... (I really like some of the Photoshop plugins from Topaz Labs.... and their Video Enhance AI app can sometimes deliver downright scary improvements on really poor quality videos.) If the original is lossless you absolutely want a bit-accurate copy of the original... there's nothing to be gained by upsampling. If the original is LOSSY then you want to either leave it alone or convert to lossless... In that case I would go with 24/96k or 24/192k FLAC (that's probably overkill and 16/44k would probably be fine for most MP3 and AAC content). DSF is a DSD variant... I'm personally not a fan of DSD so I would just go with 24/192 PCM there... But, if you care about DSD, you should be able to find a more or less lossless DSF-to-DSD converter somewhere. Also note that: - of course a lossless conversion will be identical (so WAV / FLAC / ALAC to the same bit depth and sample rate) - conversions from LOSSY formats like MP3 or AAC may be slightly different with different converters - conversions from DSD to PCM (and vice versa) will DEFINITELY be different with different converters - conversions to different sample rates will also be slightly different with different converters (even though there will be no loss of quality going, for example, from 16/44 to24/192, the results with different converters may be a tiny bit different) Keith.....I just saw this and must really disagree. You can't go UPHILL with quality. Only down. So making a lossless copy of an MP3? Waste of time. That is why, with my photography I ONLY use some version of camera RAW. That way I can make any number or size or crop of the image IN JPG and be able to print anywhere. It uses a lot of memory, but in the long run makes the best image. Same with music. Start with the BEST file you can and you can always downgrade to some MP3 size or whatever else floats your boat. You just can't go BACK to a bit accurate copy of any file when starting with an MP3...... |
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Post by geebo on Sept 16, 2022 14:55:08 GMT -5
BoomThese days, it's all about the power supply (robust and quiet) and the analog output stage widerange and quiet) I think you're exactly right audiobill - Like the AudioQuest Dragonfly and the Emotiva Big Ego products, the Topping D10s is not independently powered. It derives its DC from the USB port that it's connected to. With whatever power it can get via USB, it must: * Do the DAC conversion * Power the internal LED display * Buffer & transmit the outgoing analog signal to the destination preamplifier that may vary in impedance, depending on the preamp used * Provide coaxial & optical conversion should the user decide to use those outputs The device is also competing for power on the source computer's output USB bus with other devices including: 1. External USB HDD (including read/write functions) 2. Mouse 3. Keyboard 4. DVDRW (when ripping discs) 5. Any other USB device(s) being run by the source I've noticed that when transferring files from one external USB HDD to another, it isn't uncommon for my computer to slow or stop the process because the load on the USB bus was excessive (and THAT's with independently-powered USB drives). So it's quite possible that my (potentially wimpy) USB bus has something to do with how the Topping D10s sounds on my system. That would explain why the Emotiva Stealth DC1 (with its own power supply) sounds much better. Cheers - Glenn I'm using a Topping linear power supply with my E50 and I'm very happy with the performance. My DC-1 is now in a second system mainly because the Topping can play anything I throw at it and it sounds very good with high quality music files. |
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Post by jason05216 on Sept 16, 2022 16:22:40 GMT -5
Boom...I'm curious that you are selling your PT1, I thought you had said in another thread you wouldn't sell it? Something change your mind about it?
I've got a PT100 and am thinking of upgrading would you think it's worth waiting for the PT2 to be available?
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Post by leonski on Sept 16, 2022 18:35:47 GMT -5
Keith. I just make a General Rule....which may or may not have exceptions.
And I must say that everything you mention is 'experimental' and would require a LOT of critical listening to hear what may be minor 'upgrades'.
Yes. an entire DIVISION at the Del Mar Fair is devoted to cell lphone photography. Which for vacation 'grabs' is good, but the ruin of real photography.
It's all emulsified and few fine differences. I won't beat this to death, but I've made copies and shot same (similar) but at same time images with cell
and 'real'. GLASS makes a huge difference and NO cell phone can match 2500$ worth of Nikkor Zoom.
I use DxO Photolab and it has a few really powerful helps. If you are at all curious? Download the trial version and than PM me with questions.....
As for MP3? I top-out at MP3-160 as a good compromise between memory glut and quality. And use it in the GARAGE system (maybe 100$ worth) or the car.
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 16, 2022 19:27:04 GMT -5
I'm using a Topping linear power supply with my E50 and I'm very happy with the performance. My DC-1 is now in a second system mainly because the Topping can play anything I throw at it and it sounds very good with high quality music files. I'm not knocking Topping in general - only their USB powered ones. And with a computer with a more robust 5V to the USB ports, even the "unpowered" Topping might sound fine. But with my Mac mini - it doesn't. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 16, 2022 19:28:30 GMT -5
Boom...I'm curious that you are selling your PT1, I thought you had said in another thread you wouldn't sell it? Something change your mind about it? I've got a PT100 and am thinking of upgrading would you think it's worth waiting for the PT2 to be available? Wife is "encouraging" me to get rid of spare audio gear. Who am I to blow against the wind? |
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Post by geebo on Sept 16, 2022 19:30:46 GMT -5
I'm using a Topping linear power supply with my E50 and I'm very happy with the performance. My DC-1 is now in a second system mainly because the Topping can play anything I throw at it and it sounds very good with high quality music files. I'm not knocking Topping in general - only their USB powered ones. And with a computer with a more robust 5V to the USB ports, even the "unpowered" Topping might sound fine. But with my Mac mini - it doesn't. I was just saying that I have a dedicated power supply and perhaps that accounts for some of the difference. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 16, 2022 23:06:10 GMT -5
On another front, GoldenEar is sending me some Triton towers for review. I’ve not heard any GoldenEar products but their BRX speaker that I found mightily impressive (particularly for its size).
I’ve about given up trying to find any Thiel CS 5i speakers - they didn’t sell many to start with - they were painfully expensive - they weigh a ton (so most sellers won’t ship them) - and they’re out of production for so long now that most need repair(and parts are long, long unavailable). To add insult to injury, few amps will drive the big Thiels’ sub-three-ohm impedance.
The GoldenEar Triton line smartly avoids loading the amplifiers so much by providing onboard active amplifiers for the woofers. The source amp drives the midrange and tweeter only. I like the idea - will I like the sound?
Anyone here on the Lounge have any experience with GoldenEar Tritons? What did YOU think of them?
Boom
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