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Post by crimsonpiper on Feb 10, 2014 13:03:14 GMT -5
I'm planning to buy two XPA-1L for my R/L (Vienna Acoustics-Mozart Grand) and go directly from the 105 xlr's into the 1L xlr's for a true fully balanced route (and the hopefully lovely sound of Class A). Anyone here have a feedback on this combo?
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Post by solarrdadd on Feb 10, 2014 14:11:41 GMT -5
I'm planning to buy two XPA-1L for my R/L (Vienna Acoustics-Mozart Grand) and go directly from the 105 xlr's into the 1L xlr's for a true fully balanced route (and the hopefully lovely sound of Class A). Anyone here have a feedback on this combo? because the low voltage sensitivity of the emotiva amp in relation to the high voltage output of the oppo XLR connectors your gonna need to get XLR in line attenuators for the amp ends. if not, the volume will be too high, possibly speaker damage high. you won't lose resolution, you'll just decrease the voltage of the incoming source to that it's not blasting your speakers out when you go from 0 to 1 on the volume of the 105. i have a 105 and use the dedicated 2 channel out to a UPA-200 with RCA and it's not an issue because of the voltage output of the 105 & the input sensitivity of the amp. this is only an issue when going direct to XLR on an emotiva amp. my friend has a 105 and an XPA-2 gen 2 and had to get the XLR attenuators for the amp end and the problem was resolved and it sounds great! other amps have a high voltage input sensitivity so it's no problem for those amps. good luck and keep us posted. |
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Post by PGT on Feb 10, 2014 14:34:58 GMT -5
the 103 has the same output voltage IIRC and I'm running it into a UPA-500 for my parents' system. It takes volume about 65% to get "loud"... - Sometimes the terseness of my reply can't be blamed on my phone.  |
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Post by solarrdadd on Feb 10, 2014 14:45:15 GMT -5
the 103 has the same output voltage IIRC and I'm running it into a UPA-500 for my parents' system. It takes volume about 65% to get "loud"... - Sometimes the terseness of my reply can't be blamed on my phone. i have a 93 connected via multichannel analog into my 5507 pre-amp with no volume issues and i keep it at the same volume level i do my other inputs. i also have a 105 in my dedicated 2 channel setup and it's connected via the dedicated 2 channel output RCA's into a UPA-200 and with the volume on 40 it blasts my head off for most blu-ray sources and music is really nice and loud at that level too. most of the time i have to turn it down for blu-ray sources as much as down to 25 to 30 and with music from 40 down to 35. the 105 i'm using the player to control the volume. i'm sorry to hear you are having problems with the 103 driving the UPA-500 to a good level, i have zero problems with either my 93 or 105 via analog driving the amps to a good level. of course, keep in mind that the OP is talking about a 105 connected directly to an amp via XLR, so, it's different than your issue. |
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FLcanuck
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Post by FLcanuck on Feb 10, 2014 15:14:49 GMT -5
I don't have the 1Ls but I do have a pair of XPA-1 Gen 1s used straight from an Oppo 105, and while volume level 1 is a little louder than I'd like, it's nowhere near damage levels (my speakers have a sensitivity rating of 88dB). I max my volume out around 50-65 depending on source. You just have to go into the Oppo's setup and adjust the speaker trims for your FL/FR -6dB so they will match any other speakers connected with the RCAs. If you're using it for a 2-channel system only, I'd still go in and set the FL/FR trims down at least 6dB so the volume level isn't an issue. YMMV.
Just make sure you go into the Oppo setup and change the volume from fixed to variable BEFORE you connect your amps direct.
And if you're worried, while you're at it you can also choose a max volume, so you might set that really low the first time you try anything with the amps connected direct, just to be safe.
It's definitely worth it - sounds great!
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Post by creimes on Feb 10, 2014 15:31:12 GMT -5
I'm planning to buy two XPA-1L for my R/L (Vienna Acoustics-Mozart Grand) and go directly from the 105 xlr's into the 1L xlr's for a true fully balanced route (and the hopefully lovely sound of Class A). Anyone here have a feedback on this combo? If you live in Canada I have my XPA-1L's for sale, but if you are in the U.S. it's not cost efficient for me to ship to you. Chad |
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Post by solarrdadd on Feb 10, 2014 15:35:32 GMT -5
I don't have the 1Ls but I do have a pair of XPA-1 Gen 1s used straight from an Oppo 105, and while volume level 1 is a little louder than I'd like, it's nowhere near damage levels (my speakers have a sensitivity rating of 88dB). I max my volume out around 50-65 depending on source. You just have to go into the Oppo's setup and adjust the speaker trims for your FL/FR -6dB so they will match any other speakers connected with the RCAs. If you're using it for a 2-channel system only, I'd still go in and set the FL/FR trims down at least 6dB so the volume level isn't an issue. YMMV. Just make sure you go into the Oppo setup and change the volume from fixed to variable BEFORE you connect your amps direct. And if you're worried, while you're at it you can also choose a max volume, so you might set that really low the first time you try anything with the amps connected direct, just to be safe. It's definitely worth it - sounds great! you didn't say how your 105 is connected to your amp. mine is connected via RCA and that voltage is fine. the OP's is connected via XLR and that is a problem because of the output voltage of the 105 and the input voltage sensitivity of the emotiva amps which is low for XLR in relation to what the 105 puts out via XLR. |
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Post by moko on Feb 10, 2014 17:45:50 GMT -5
because the low voltage sensitivity of the emotiva amp in relation to the high voltage output of the oppo XLR connectors your gonna need to get XLR in line attenuators for the amp ends. if not, the volume will be too high, possibly speaker damage high. you won't lose resolution, you'll just decrease the voltage of the incoming source to that it's not blasting your speakers out when you go from 0 to 1 on the volume of the 105.i have a 105 and use the dedicated 2 channel out to a UPA-200 with RCA and it's not an issue because of the voltage output of the 105 & the input sensitivity of the amp. this is only an issue when going direct to XLR on an emotiva amp. my friend has a 105 and an XPA-2 gen 2 and had to get the XLR attenuators for the amp end and the problem was resolved and it sounds great! other amps have a high voltage input sensitivity so it's no problem for those amps. good luck and keep us posted. hmmm that's odd. is 2 louder than 1 ? if it's louder then it's about voltage input sensitivity. but if it's not then probably the digital volume control in oppo. |
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FLcanuck
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Post by FLcanuck on Feb 10, 2014 18:14:11 GMT -5
I don't have the 1Ls but I do have a pair of XPA-1 Gen 1s used straight from an Oppo 105, and while volume level 1 is a little louder than I'd like, it's nowhere near damage levels (my speakers have a sensitivity rating of 88dB). I max my volume out around 50-65 depending on source. You just have to go into the Oppo's setup and adjust the speaker trims for your FL/FR -6dB so they will match any other speakers connected with the RCAs. If you're using it for a 2-channel system only, I'd still go in and set the FL/FR trims down at least 6dB so the volume level isn't an issue. YMMV. Just make sure you go into the Oppo setup and change the volume from fixed to variable BEFORE you connect your amps direct. And if you're worried, while you're at it you can also choose a max volume, so you might set that really low the first time you try anything with the amps connected direct, just to be safe. It's definitely worth it - sounds great! you didn't say how your 105 is connected to your amp. mine is connected via RCA and that voltage is fine. the OP's is connected via XLR and that is a problem because of the output voltage of the 105 and the input voltage sensitivity of the emotiva amps which is low for XLR in relation to what the 105 puts out via XLR. Connected via XLR. |
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Post by tme110 on Feb 10, 2014 18:19:22 GMT -5
I have a xpa-5 and xpa-2 and have had my oppo 105 do direct over XLR to both with no issues whatsoever to sensitive Ascend Acoustic Sierra towers. Yes, it is a fully listenable volume when set to 1 but that hasn't effected me yet.
I plan on switching to XPA-1L's at some point.
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 10, 2014 18:53:18 GMT -5
Quick clarification, the Oppo XLR (Balanced) output voltage is -2.1 volts and +2.1 volts hence quoted as 4.2 volts. This is virtually the same as the RCA (unbalanced) output voltage of 2.1 volts. The XLR output is the typical +6db over the RCA output, but the 105 has a volume control with 100 steps of 0.5db each, so the 6db difference (LR to RCA) is easily overcome.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by solarrdadd on Feb 10, 2014 20:07:25 GMT -5
Quick clarification, the Oppo XLR (Balanced) output voltage is -2.1 volts and +2.1 volts hence quoted as 4.2 volts. This is virtually the same as the RCA (unbalanced) output voltage of 2.1 volts. The XLR output is the typical +6db over the RCA output, but the 105 has a volume control with 100 steps of 0.5db each, so the 6db difference (LR to RCA) is easily overcome. Cheers Gary when i wrote oppo about my friends issues with the amp and the extremely loud volume he complained about here is what they wrote back, this is a direct copy & paste from the email i received: The XLR outputs on the player are 4Vrms. The dedicated stereo outputs are 2Vrms. If the audio is too loud at 1, then you will want to use an attenuator between the player and the downstream system. A 12dB attenuator will likely work in this configuration. Best Regards, Customer Service OPPO Digital, Inc. 2629B Terminal Blvd. Mountain View, CA 94043 Service@oppodigital.com Tel: 650-961-1118 Fax: 650-961-1119 they didn't say anything about +2v or -2v, they said it's 4vrms; before you jump, i'm not saying your not correct. also, on this site i did read about people having the same problem with 105 & 95 XLR connections direct to emotiva amps and they had volume problems with the level being too loud and they either got attenuators for the XLR's or they switched to RCA for direct connection. the 105 works without incident if you connect it to an XLR pre-amp because you set the 105 volume to fixed (100) and the volume control on the pre-amp takes care of things. i've also seen this type of thing over at AVS, same issue. the OP can always connect his the way he said he wanted it connected and let us know how it all works out for him. i don't doubt anyone, my 105 is connected to my UPA-200 via the dedicated RCA so i have no issues. everything i said had to do with a friend telling me about his issues which prompted another friend to jump in with his issue with it and the only thing that was common was the 105 connected to an emotiva amp. i did find another guy who has his 105 connected directly to a McIntosh 452 amp via XLR with no problem because that amp's input voltage sensitivity is 4.2vrms for XLR & 2.1vrms for RCA, those numbers are from the McIntosh 452 manual. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 10, 2014 20:09:39 GMT -5
I run my 105 directly into my XPR-2 using XLRs. Works fine, sounds beautiful!
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 10, 2014 20:30:31 GMT -5
Quick clarification, the Oppo XLR (Balanced) output voltage is -2.1 volts and +2.1 volts hence quoted as 4.2 volts. This is virtually the same as the RCA (unbalanced) output voltage of 2.1 volts. The XLR output is the typical +6db over the RCA output, but the 105 has a volume control with 100 steps of 0.5db each, so the 6db difference (LR to RCA) is easily overcome. when i wrote oppo about my friends issues with the amp and the extremely loud volume he complained about here is what they wrote back, this is a direct copy & paste from the email i received: The XLR outputs on the player are 4Vrms. The dedicated stereo outputs are 2Vrms. If the audio is too loud at 1, then you will want to use an attenuator between the player and the downstream system. A 12dB attenuator will likely work in this configuration. Best Regards, Customer Service OPPO Digital, Inc. 2629B Terminal Blvd. Mountain View, CA 94043 Service@oppodigital.com Tel: 650-961-1118 Fax: 650-961-1119 they didn't say anything about +2v or -2v, they said it's 4vrms; before you jump, i'm not saying your not correct. also, on this site i did read about people having the same problem with 105 & 95 XLR connections direct to emotiva amps and they had volume problems with the level being too loud and they either got attenuators for the XLR's or they switched to RCA for direct connection. the 105 works without incident if you connect it to an XLR pre-amp because you set the 105 volume to fixed (100) and the volume control on the pre-amp takes care of things. i've also seen this type of thing over at AVS, same issue. the OP can always connect his the way he said he wanted it connected and let us know how it all works out for him. i don't doubt anyone, my 105 is connected to my UPA-200 via the dedicated RCA so i have no issues. everything i said had to do with a friend telling me about his issues which prompted another friend to jump in with his issue with it and the only thing that was common was the 105 connected to an emotiva amp. i did find another guy who has his 105 connected directly to a McIntosh 452 amp via XLR with no problem because that amp's input voltage sensitivity is 4.2vrms for XLR & 2.1vrms for RCA, those numbers are from the McIntosh 452 manual. The XLR +2.1 volts and -2.1 volts for XLR connections is industry standard, that's possibly why they didn't mention it. The XPA-2 Manual (I kept a copy of the one for the XPA-2 that I sold) doesn't state its input sensitivity for XLR connections, but again the industry standard is +2.1 volts and -2.1 volts. So this is really a question for Emotiva Technical, unless Keith pops in with his input. Cheers Gary |
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Post by audiobill on Feb 10, 2014 20:35:18 GMT -5
I vaguely remember us being here recently......
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 10, 2014 21:27:58 GMT -5
I vaguely remember us being here recently...... No so vague  Cheers Gary |
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Post by crimsonpiper on Feb 10, 2014 21:47:23 GMT -5
Okay, first I would like to thank you all for your great input. First of all, the reason that I would like to go Xlr's from the 105 to the 1L is because they are both true balanced through Xlr's so I would like to exercise this option. In the future when I will add the xpa3 to complete my 5.1 I will have to deal with the difference of volume between my mains and my surrounds, as the Oppo 105 gives you xlr's for L/R but only Rca's for center and surround. So after reading the different replies, here's my questions: 1 - Will using attenuators have the same effect as trimming the volume through the Oppo as was suggested? 2 - I might be totally off, but will the fact that both components (105 and 1L) are truly balanced change the volume situations through Xlr's, as opposed to going from oppo to xpa-2/xpa-5 (which is not truly balanced but only have xlr's in)? Regarding the Gen 1/2 part: if I'm not mistaken, the gain on the L1 is 29, which is kind of more Gen 2ish...  Again, thank you all for participating with your appreciated knowledge. |
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Post by solarrdadd on Feb 10, 2014 21:55:05 GMT -5
well, i don't want to steer the OP the wrong way. i only posted the experience of others. we have some posters in the thread who say they have real world experience with 105 to emotiva amps via XLR and it's problem free for them so i'll leave it at that. i can't speak as to why the other folks needed attenuators and folks here didn't. i do hope that the OP will post his findings based on his experience with his 105 direct to the emotiva amp mentioned.
good luck, please keep us posted.
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 10, 2014 22:57:14 GMT -5
Okay, first I would like to thank you all for your great input. You're welcome any time, we all try to help when we can. That's a fair target, but are you doing it for sound quality? Or just because it's a cool idea? Not that there is anything wrong with that, of course. Yes you will, there is the typical 6db difference between XLR and RCA connections. However individual channel levels on the 105 can be adjusted in 0.5dB steps, so I don't see a problem there. Some people will claim attenuators affect the sound quality (not just its volume), personally I've never experienced this. The terminology gets in the way here, all the Emotiva amps with XLR connectors are balanced, some are balanced and differential. In regards to balanced, in the home environment I've back to backed RCA versus XLR connections many times and I've yet to hear any difference. That's obviously not the case in a noisy (EMF noisy) environment, where XLR connection definitely makes a difference. Differential I've not tested back to back, plus it's further complicated by dual differential (eg; XPA-100) and quad differential (eg; XPA-1L). Personally I wouldn't buy an XPA-1L for its quad differential, I'd be buying it for its Class A performance. I've had both 29db gain and 32db gain Emotiva amps, that's 6 clicks difference (0.5db each) out of the 100 clicks on a 105, hardly a big deal. Cheers Gary |
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Post by crimsonpiper on Feb 10, 2014 23:18:22 GMT -5
Okay, first I would like to thank you all for your great input. You're welcome any time, we all try to help when we can. That's a fair target, but are you doing it for sound quality? Or just because it's a cool idea? Not that there is anything wrong with that, of course. Sound Quality? Well, I don't know if there will be an advantage there...maybe there will...for me it is mainly to keep it clean as possible. Yes you will, there is the typical 6db difference between XLR and RCA connections. However individual channel levels on the 105 can be adjusted in 0.5dB steps, so I don't see a problem there. So I guess trimming a 6db at the Oppo menu might do the trick right? Some people will claim attenuators affect the sound quality (not just its volume), personally I've never experienced this. The terminology gets in the way here, all the Emotiva amps with XLR connectors are balanced, some are balanced and differential. In regards to balanced, in the home environment I've back to backed RCA versus XLR connections many times and I've yet to hear any difference. That's obviously not the case in a noisy (EMF noisy) environment, where XLR connection definitely makes a difference. Differential I've not tested back to back, plus it's further complicated by dual differential (eg; XPA-100) and quad differential (eg; XPA-1L). Personally I wouldn't buy an XPA-1L for its quad differential, I'd be buying it for its Class A performance. Class A is the bait I'm after... I've had both 29db gain and 32db gain Emotiva amps, that's 6 clicks difference (0.5db each) out of the 100 clicks on a 105, hardly a big deal. Cheers Gary |
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