lmr
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Post by lmr on Feb 11, 2014 21:55:17 GMT -5
I have only heard the XSP-1 with MM cartridges and am not happy with the sound. I am thinking of trying a C-2300 preamp and hope for a more cleaner sound.Has anyone ever compared the two? I am just nervous of spending that kind of quag while not knowing the outcome. Problem I am having now is a muddy sound when the music gets complex. I may try a mc cartridge to see if that might help.
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 11, 2014 22:09:04 GMT -5
I'm using a USP-1 with an MM cartridge and the sound is clean, clear and not at all muddy. I can only imagine that an XSP-1 would be even better. Personally I'd be looking for a reason other than the preamp.
Cheers Gary
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Post by chaosrv on Feb 11, 2014 22:10:23 GMT -5
This is going to sound silly but have you checked to make sure the XSP-1 is set to MM for the phono stage? I only say this because when I first got my XSP-1, i set it to MM but when I moved it into place I must have hit the switch and had it on MC. It sounded terrible. Once I figured that bit of nonsense out I have never looked back. The XSP-1 sounds great with my VPI table.
Now that said, instead of investing in a McIntosh C-2300, I would look into a standalone phono stage. You don't need to replace the ENTIRE preamp just for the phono section. Save yourself a few grand. I would suggest the XPS-1 since it has a 30 day return policy but if you don't like the phono stage in the XSP-1, I doubt you'll like this one. There are a TON of phono stages out there that can be had for a lot less than a new (or even used) McIntosh.
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Post by GreenKiwi on Feb 11, 2014 22:24:32 GMT -5
I would echo what chaosrv said. I think that buying a new preamp because you don't like the phono performance isn't the right move. Try out some other phono preamps and cartridges.
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harri009
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Post by harri009 on Feb 11, 2014 23:17:35 GMT -5
While I am one of the forum members who no longer currently own any emotiva gear I would agree with a few of the other members. I do not think its the phono section or preamp. How many hours are on your cart? Is it setup properly? Are your switches all in the right positions?
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Feb 12, 2014 0:07:41 GMT -5
While I am one of the forum members who no longer currently own any emotiva gear I would agree with a few of the other members. I do not think its the phono section or preamp. How many hours are on your cart? Is it setup properly? Are your switches all in the right positions? I think this is a valid point,,,,but what the heck do I know. still learning, still listening! Nick
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Post by RightinLA on Feb 12, 2014 1:10:42 GMT -5
The phono preamps on McIntosh preamps are very good to excellent as far as I'm concerned. There are other reasons too to switch to a McIntosh preamp if you have the extra cash. I have the C41 and C42. The C2300 is another big step above with enhanced low noise circuitry, and of course tubes. I wished I owned one. The manual states that: Yeah and this is all selectable from the remote! This preamp is in another league! The problem is once you go Mac it is hard to go back. What cartridge are you using?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 1:12:36 GMT -5
What brand cartridge is it? How old is it? Is the tip in good condition, and, please excuse the obvious, is the tip clean and free from fluff and dust?
You say 'complex', do you mean loud, many instruments kicking in, dynamics....?
I'm wondering if the tip itself is cracked or loose somehow - have someone who is very experienced in vinyl playback equipment check it out. Something similar happened to me years and years ago with a Shure - the elliptical tip had cracked ever so slightly, didn't show up as a problem until things got busy. I can't see how the pre-amp would really be the issue here unless you actually somehow have a faulty phono circuit in the XSP-1 - maybe can you borrow another turntable, arm and cartridge and play that through your XSP-1? If the phono is at fault it should replicate the same muddy sound.
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 12, 2014 2:28:42 GMT -5
The phono preamps on McIntosh preamps are very good to excellent as far as I'm concerned. There are other reasons too to switch to a McIntosh preamp if you have the extra cash. I have the C41 and C42. The C2300 is another step above and I wished I owned one. The problem is once you go Mac it is hard to go back. Did you really think you were going to get away with that The C41 was one of worst $big preamps I have ever heard, flat, lifeless, some might say MP3 like. With a potentiometer volume control that went scratchy in a few days of use. The problem with the C42 is that it outputs balanced at +1.2 and -1.2 volts. That's half the industry standard, I needed another pre amp between the C41 and a power amp to get decent volume. Strange design that one. The C2300 I have no personal experience with, but I noticed that it was replaced with the C2500 is double quick time (for McIntosh anyway). Possibly to overcome the stupidity of not equipping the C2300 with a DAC. Yes, that's right a $6K pre amp with no DAC I agree "once you go Mac it is hard to go back" because you have wasted all your money. Cheers Gary
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 5:48:47 GMT -5
Did you really think you were going to get away with that The C41 was one of worst $big preamps I have ever heard, flat, lifeless, some might say MP3 like. With a potentiometer volume control that went scratchy in a few days of use. The problem with the C42 is that it outputs balanced at +1.2 and -1.2 volts. That's half the industry standard, I needed another pre amp between the C41 and a power amp to get decent volume. Strange design that one. The C2300 I have no personal experience with, but I noticed that it was replaced with the C2500 is double quick time (for McIntosh anyway). Possibly to overcome the stupidity of not equipping the C2300 with a DAC. Yes, that's right a $6K pre amp with no DAC I agree "once you go Mac it is hard to go back" because you have wasted all your money. Cheers Gary Ouch!
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lmr
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Post by lmr on Feb 12, 2014 8:08:36 GMT -5
I am using a Ortofon 2m bronze cartridge.Nice sound when acoustic music is playing with one voice but listening to a band and it all goes down hill. The switch is on mm in the back although I'm not a big fan of that as the selector is loose. It actually sounds better under mc mode but you guys told me to switch it back.For all I know, it might be the amp and what I am looking for is class A sound.Either way, I am not too happy with the sound.
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Post by pedrocols on Feb 12, 2014 8:53:21 GMT -5
I am using a Ortofon 2m bronze cartridge.Nice sound when acoustic music is playing with one voice but listening to a band and it all goes down hill. The switch is on mm in the back although I'm not a big fan of that as the selector is loose. It actually sounds better under mc mode but you guys told me to switch it back.For all I know, it might be the amp and what I am looking for is class A sound.Either way, I am not too happy with the sound. Well if you are using a Moving Magnet cartridge you need to select MM and if you are using a Moving Coil cartridge you need to select MC.
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Post by garbulky on Feb 12, 2014 9:49:36 GMT -5
The phono preamps on McIntosh preamps are very good to excellent as far as I'm concerned. There are other reasons too to switch to a McIntosh preamp if you have the extra cash. I have the C41 and C42. The C2300 is another step above and I wished I owned one. The problem is once you go Mac it is hard to go back. Did you really think you were going to get away with that The C41 was one of worst $big preamps I have ever heard, flat, lifeless, some might say MP3 like. With a potentiometer volume control that went scratchy in a few days of use. The problem with the C42 is that it outputs balanced at +1.2 and -1.2 volts. That's half the industry standard, I needed another pre amp between the C41 and a power amp to get decent volume. Strange design that one. The C2300 I have no personal experience with, but I noticed that it was replaced with the C2500 is double quick time (for McIntosh anyway). Possibly to overcome the stupidity of not equipping the C2300 with a DAC. Yes, that's right a $6K pre amp with no DAC I agree "once you go Mac it is hard to go back" because you have wasted all your money. Cheers Gary This forum needs a fire extinguisher on hand. So if I read this correctly, you did not like Mac stuff eh? I have never heard Mac stuff though I did get to look at some beautiful vintage gear of theirs thanks to B'zilla. BTW I'm not sure if you were joking or not but a 6k pre-amp should not have a DAC. At least that's how I look at it.
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Post by RightinLA on Feb 12, 2014 9:50:08 GMT -5
Did you really think you were going to get away with that The C41 was one of worst $big preamps I have ever heard, flat, lifeless, some might say MP3 like. With a potentiometer volume control that went scratchy in a few days of use. The problem with the C42 is that it outputs balanced at +1.2 and -1.2 volts. That's half the industry standard, I needed another pre amp between the C41 and a power amp to get decent volume. Strange design that one. The C2300 I have no personal experience with, but I noticed that it was replaced with the C2500 is double quick time (for McIntosh anyway). Possibly to overcome the stupidity of not equipping the C2300 with a DAC. Yes, that's right a $6K pre amp with no DAC I agree "once you go Mac it is hard to go back" because you have wasted all your money. Cheers Gary Ouch!
I agree, he landed on his head with those comments!
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Post by AudioHTIT on Feb 12, 2014 10:29:52 GMT -5
The specs on the Ortofon 2M bronze (5mv output and 47K load impediance) indicate the switch should be in the MM position. I find the XSP-1 sounds very good in my system, including the phono section, but that doesn't mean you have to like it. I'm with the others on trying to find another cartridge to test before jumping on a new preamp, 'muddy' just doesn't sound like a quality of the XSP-1.
I think Gary's comments regarding Mac are not typical. I was considering the C-2300 myself but decided to try the XSP-1 and was pleasantly surprised. If you do get the Mac you will get an excellent piece of gear that I believe will sound very good. Emotiva tries to bring the sound quality of products like Mac in more affordable packages, but that doesn't mean there aren't better (whatever 'better' means to you).
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 12, 2014 10:46:39 GMT -5
www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/806mac/index.htmlWant it all? Here's a 3 piece McIntosh preamp package that includes a separate ps/controller and two preamps. one ss and one tubed. The controller allows both to be used simultaneously providing selection via remote control of any input, tubed or ss. Only $26,000.
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Post by RightinLA on Feb 12, 2014 10:51:53 GMT -5
If you can afford it, it looks like some sweet equipment! A lot of us have that sum and more invested in equipment. Some have cables worth that much!
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Feb 12, 2014 12:00:59 GMT -5
I say try one and see in your system. They give you a 30-day trial period right? A good dealer should let you demo one for a while anyway. trust your ears listening to your system. It's your money after all.
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lmr
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Post by lmr on Feb 12, 2014 12:32:40 GMT -5
now this puts me at a dilemma. If I try another cartridge and go for a more expensive one, I can't get the McIntosh if it doesn't help. I have heard a few systems with the blue 2m, which is a step down, sounding fantastic.So I can't put my mind at ease that it is the cartridge. Both the blue I had previously and the bronze were set up professionally by the stereo shop electronically. Now I certainly don't have the ability to waste money on another preamp only to find out that didn't work.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Feb 12, 2014 13:47:50 GMT -5
So you are using the XSP solely for its phono stage? No other sources connected?
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