harri009
Emo VIPs
ReferenceAnalog.com
Posts: 1,425
|
Post by harri009 on Feb 12, 2014 13:53:24 GMT -5
now this puts me at a dilemma. If I try another cartridge and go for a more expensive one, I can't get the McIntosh if it doesn't help. I have heard a few systems with the blue 2m, which is a step down, sounding fantastic.So I can't put my mind at ease that it is the cartridge. Both the blue I had previously and the bronze were set up professionally by the stereo shop electronically. Now I certainly don't have the ability to waste money on another preamp only to find out that didn't work. If you cannot borrow someone else's table and cart I suggest you take your table to a friends or stereo shop and test it. I would bet that your cart is bad. If this is not the case after testing them sell the XSP-1 or return it
|
|
lmr
Minor Hero
Posts: 77
|
Post by lmr on Feb 12, 2014 14:27:27 GMT -5
So you are using the XSP solely for its phono stage? No other sources connected? I have a receiver which goes through the XSP in home theater mode. When I listen to Rhapsody, the sound is a lot better. However I cannot say for sure the B&W is clearer sounding then pure analog.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2014 15:23:51 GMT -5
I am using a Ortofon 2m bronze cartridge.Nice sound when acoustic music is playing with one voice but listening to a band and it all goes down hill. The switch is on mm in the back although I'm not a big fan of that as the selector is loose. It actually sounds better under mc mode but you guys told me to switch it back.For all I know, it might be the amp and what I am looking for is class A sound.Either way, I am not too happy with the sound. Call Emotiva about that - shouldn't be loose, it may be compromising the selection somehow.
|
|
|
Post by pedrocols on Feb 12, 2014 17:10:37 GMT -5
www.stereophile.com/tubepreamps/806mac/index.htmlWant it all? Here's a 3 piece McIntosh preamp package that includes a separate ps/controller and two preamps. one ss and one tubed. The controller allows both to be used simultaneously providing selection via remote control of any input, tubed or ss. Only $26,000. The good thing about this deal is that 20 years from now you can re sell it for $30,000....
|
|
lmr
Minor Hero
Posts: 77
|
Post by lmr on Feb 12, 2014 17:44:25 GMT -5
Just got home and tried playing a cd. Punchy bass and nice sound , a David Benoit greatest hits. I am running this pure direct thru the AVR. Blooloo, the switch is only loose on the mc side but I guess I'll contact Emotiva.
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Feb 12, 2014 18:03:39 GMT -5
The phono preamps on McIntosh preamps are very good to excellent as far as I'm concerned. There are other reasons too to switch to a McIntosh preamp if you have the extra cash. I have the C41 and C42. The C2300 is another step above and I wished I owned one. The problem is once you go Mac it is hard to go back. Did you really think you were going to get away with that The C41 was one of worst $big preamps I have ever heard, flat, lifeless, some might say MP3 like. With a potentiometer volume control that went scratchy in a few days of use. The problem with the C42 is that it outputs balanced at +1.2 and -1.2 volts. That's half the industry standard, I needed another pre amp between the C41 and a power amp to get decent volume. Strange design that one. The C2300 I have no personal experience with, but I noticed that it was replaced with the C2500 is double quick time (for McIntosh anyway). Possibly to overcome the stupidity of not equipping the C2300 with a DAC. Yes, that's right a $6K pre amp with no DAC I agree "once you go Mac it is hard to go back" because you have wasted all your money. Ouch!
I agree, he landed on his head with those comments! The challenge is always there, for anyone, anytime, my comments on the C41 and C42 are based on my personal experiences. If what I have posted is doubted then please by all means check the facts. The issues I pointed out with the C41 and C42 are real, read McIntosh's spec's if you want to confirm them. Then read a few reviews, independent ones please, not those from magazines that depend on McIntosh for $big adverting. As for the C2300, some might argue (and have) that a $6K pre amp should not have a DAC and that the C2300 is a perfectly good pre amp, that's a perfectly reasonable opinion. But obviously McIntosh themselves don't agree with that opinion, because they replaced the C2300 with the C2500 in what for them was short order. More importantly the C2500 comes with an on board DAC. You can read that however you like, to me it's a strong indicator that they admit that they made a mistake leaving the DAC out of C2300. My opinions are exactly that, my opinions, not worth a lot, but I stand ready to defend them when challenged. Cheers Gary
|
|
|
Post by brubacca on Feb 12, 2014 19:24:02 GMT -5
Many people thoroughly enjoy their Emotiva gear, me included. Other also enjoy their non-Emotiva gear, me included too. It seems that you may have a malfunctioning XSP-1. A loose switch doesn't sound right. I think that you have been given sound advise. If you want to move on definitely try the MAC first. At $6k a listen before buy is a must.
You have a great TT and expensive. Maybe your vpi dealer could check out the TT, hopefully for at worst a nominal fee.
Good luck.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,928
|
Post by KeithL on Feb 13, 2014 15:07:40 GMT -5
A few notes about phono preamps and cartridges......
Phono cartridges, like speakers, are electromechanical devices. This means that there are a LOT of variables between cartridges in terms of how they sound - and different cartridges can sound VERY different from each other. With Moving Coil cartridges, the load impedance on the input of the phono preamp also has a major effect on the sound (which is why better phono preamps let you select among several different options there). With Moving Magnet cartridges, the capacitance of the input and the interconnecting cable can also affect the sound (on our preamps we chose one value there - which works well with most cartridges and cables).
These differences can consist of differences in frequency response (bright, dull, bass heavy, warm, etc). But cartridges also vary widely in how well they track difficult records, and in the amounts of various amounts of distortion they produce. A cartridge that doesn't "track well" may sound muddled and confused when attempting to play loud or complex musical passages, or may even jump out of the groove on heavily overmodulated records. The design of the turntable, and the arm, and how the cartridge and arm are adjusted to work together, can also have major effects on this.
Phono preamps boost the low level signal coming from the cartridge, and also apply a large amount of equalization to it. All records are recorded using RIAA equalization, which alters the frequency response drastically during recording to minimize the effects of various mechanical limitations in the recording process. During playback, an equal and opposite EQ curve is applied by the phono preamp to (hopefully) recreate the original sound. The proper EQ curve that should be used is specified by the RIAA standard (although many phono preamps don't follow the standard as closely as they should).
We believe that a phono preamp should follow the standard RIAA curve as accurately as possible, and introduce the least possible amounts of distortion and noise. Assuming that the cartridge and turntable also perform well, and comply with the standard, this should yield the best overall technical performance, and the best overall sound quality.
You basically have two "philosophical" choices: either do your best to get a cartridge, turntable, and phono preamp that are all correct and accurate, or choose various components which are flawed, and try to find ones whose flaws cancel out or complement each other. We believe that the first option is the best choice (and the most likely to give you the best sound). We believe the phono preamp in the XSP-1, and the separate XPS-1, both do a very good job of fulfilling this goal (both have excellent technical specifications, and both sound very good). Both are very quiet, very low in distortion, and follow the standard RIAA curve very accurately.
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 13, 2014 15:17:38 GMT -5
I have only heard the XSP-1 with MM cartridges and am not happy with the sound. I am thinking of trying a C-2300 preamp and hope for a more cleaner sound.Has anyone ever compared the two? I am just nervous of spending that kind of quag while not knowing the outcome. Problem I am having now is a muddy sound when the music gets complex. I may try a mc cartridge to see if that might help. You want a NICE PREAMP??? www.bentaudio.com/That's as good as it gets.EJ has a nice piece as well. www.wyred4sound.com/webapps/category/74030/117839/17873The Bent Audio TAP-X is the way to go IMHO if you want the "best". If building it is to much find somebody like me to assemble it for you. PM if interested. PS I think Jade/Emo has done business with John Chapman.
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 13, 2014 15:27:24 GMT -5
Ohh you're after that McIntosh preamp for it's phono preamp?
UGG
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 13, 2014 15:34:18 GMT -5
I just can't believe the kind of money people are pissing away IMHO on OLD DATED TECHNOLOGY. $10,000 tube amps and $8000 turn tables and screwy non standard preamps that cost... again almost TEN GRAND!!! You want sonic nirvana using modern digital transport that doesn't have that "digital sound" you all seem to hate... and you got the $$$!!! THE AMPTHE PREAMPTHE DACPS don't worry you can stick it in a purdy case with an aluminum faceplate LOL.
|
|
|
Post by boomzilla on Feb 13, 2014 18:08:01 GMT -5
I've owned McIntosh preamps before. IMHO, the only one out there that compares is Audio Research. The two design philosophies are at opposite ends of the scale - The AR gear is pure minimalist while the Mac gear is "everything but the kitchen sink." Nevertheless, they both perform stratospherically. Unfortunately, they're both priced that way too.
The Emotiva preamps, by comparison offer maybe 85 to 90 percent of the sound of AR & Mac, but at about 50% (or less) of the price. If cost is no object, then I'd go AR or Mac. If you're a "value for the buck" shopper (like I am), then vote with your wallet - I bought Emotiva.
|
|
|
Post by sounder on Feb 13, 2014 18:21:06 GMT -5
I have only heard the XSP-1 with MM cartridges and am not happy with the sound. I am thinking of trying a C-2300 preamp and hope for a more cleaner sound.Has anyone ever compared the two? I am just nervous of spending that kind of quag while not knowing the outcome. Problem I am having now is a muddy sound when the music gets complex. I may try a mc cartridge to see if that might help. What you need is a dealer that stocks this stuff so you can compare. I live in Minneapolis and the local dealer, audio perfection stocks all the Mac gear and has it on display. They will set it up for you with any speakers you want. I have B&W 803s. They would let us bring them in and connect to their gear for a listen... All day if you want. So here's an offer for you. Come visit the dealer in Minneapolis. We can drink beer and listen to music all weekend and you can stay in my guest room. We can hang out at the dealer and geek out on Mac gear (and my tube gear with b&w's). Only caveat is that you have to bring the XSP to compare in a side by side test with my Jolida JD9 phono preamp. Then we will post our results on the emo site for all.
|
|
|
Post by pedrocols on Feb 13, 2014 19:03:53 GMT -5
I just can't believe the kind of money people are pissing away IMHO on OLD DATED TECHNOLOGY. $10,000 tube amps and $8000 turn tables and screwy non standard preamps that cost... again almost TEN GRAND!!! You want sonic nirvana using modern digital transport that doesn't have that "digital sound" you all seem to hate... and you got the $$$!!! THE AMPTHE PREAMPTHE DACPS don't worry you can stick it in a purdy case with an aluminum faceplate LOL. Don't leave out of the equation that this is USA and the best of the best of the best is MADE IN USA...I think...So if Emotiva were to be manufactured in USA by USA workers and everything else that comes along with it the price will probably be way up there as well...But then again we all know how that goes....
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 13, 2014 19:19:08 GMT -5
The amp is MADE IN THE USA, the preamp is MADE IN CANADA and that DAC is MADE IN GERMANY.
Foreign parts are impossible to avoid.
The amp is an ATI6002, the preamp a Bent Audio TAP-X and the DAC a DDDAC1794 NOS DIY custom with eight "decks" with four PCM1794 DACs each for a total of 32 PCM1794 DSD variant DACs! All you really need is 4 decks and IMHO 8 decks is ridiculous. The USB audio solution is the best available bar none.
Each piece can be had for around $2500 each so all said and done we are talking $7500 or around the cost of one of Bob's "Cherry Bombs".
THAT GEAR IS AS GOOD AS IT GETS.
I'd be willing to pit those three choices against ANYTHING ELSE AT ANY PRICE POINT in the entire industry.
PS I haven't heard that amp yet...
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 13, 2014 19:20:20 GMT -5
I've owned McIntosh preamps before. IMHO, the only one out there that compares is Audio Research. The two design philosophies are at opposite ends of the scale - The AR gear is pure minimalist while the Mac gear is "everything but the kitchen sink." Nevertheless, they both perform stratospherically. Unfortunately, they're both priced that way too. The Emotiva preamps, by comparison offer maybe 85 to 90 percent of the sound of AR & Mac, but at about 50% (or less) of the price. If cost is no object, then I'd go AR or Mac. If you're a "value for the buck" shopper (like I am), then vote with your wallet - I bought Emotiva. And that TAP-X kit BESTS ALL OF THEM.100% transparent with the best volume solution possible IE no resistors. It can be built as a balanced or single ended unit with the balanced unit costing almost twice the amount for obvious reasons.
|
|
lmr
Minor Hero
Posts: 77
|
Post by lmr on Feb 13, 2014 20:08:38 GMT -5
"I just can't believe the kind of money people are pissing away IMHO on OLD DATED TECHNOLOGY.
$10,000 tube amps and $8000 turn tables and screwy non standard preamps that cost... again almost TEN GRAND!!!"
For a second there, I thought you were going to start talking about Harleys.
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 13, 2014 20:13:44 GMT -5
"I just can't believe the kind of money people are pissing away IMHO on OLD DATED TECHNOLOGY. $10,000 tube amps and $8000 turn tables and screwy non standard preamps that cost... again almost TEN GRAND!!!" For a second there, I thought you were going to start talking about Harleys. I don't know much about current MM/MC preamps but it sound to me that's what you need. If you want a preamp though that TAP-X like I said is as good as it gets. I'm sure there is a photo preamp out there much like the TAP-X in kit form that bests that expensive gear you are contemplating.
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 13, 2014 20:21:02 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by solidstate on Feb 13, 2014 20:53:13 GMT -5
I shouldn't rail against tube amps as I'd use this to drive some AMT Adam tweeters in an active DSP xover bi/tri amp arrangement. www.transcendentsound.com/Transcendent/Mini_Beast.htmlYou need pre-RIAA playback? www.bottlehead.com/store.php/products/tube-phonoONLY $7500 bucks! The kits at Bottlehead look good though. A TAP-X preamp and a Eros Phono Preamplifier would best your Macintosh contemplation by a factor of ten in SQ returns friend!!! This looks like a nice AFFORDABLE phono section zero feedback design that I bet sounds fantastic. www.hagtech.com/cornet2.htmlThey also have opamp units for under $200 bucks. I'm certain a Cornet2 and a TAP-X would best that Macintosh unit by many factors in SQ.
|
|