KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 11, 2014 8:59:51 GMT -5
For optical cable we have this little stand... it holds the cable with one end near a light bulb.... (and for faster burn-in we have a black box you can stick the other end into so the light runs through faster). Although some people recommend playing TV pictures through it for a more consistent effect...  Wow, are they manufacturing laser lens cooker too? And optical cable cooker too? I'm very interested...  |
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Post by drtrey3 on Mar 11, 2014 9:04:25 GMT -5
I used to scuba dive, and when you first get in the ocean, it is so amazingly blue! That fades quickly as our brain adjusts for our eyes to make the color more neutral. The same thing happens to our smell as anyone who has spent time near a farm that uses manure to fertilize can attest.
Trey
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 11, 2014 9:21:51 GMT -5
From the buyer's side:
Burn in time for audio component = Number of years, months, weeks, days, hours and seconds required to justify the expenditure of funds on said component.
From the seller's side:
Burn in time for audio component = Time given for return privileges + 1 second.
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 11, 2014 9:24:19 GMT -5
Also, what about room treatments? How much burn in time do room treatments need? I bought some ATS panels and upon initial use the sound from my gear was harsh but after a few days I think the fibers blended in the panels and I got a much more tame sound. Has anyone else experienced this?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 9:24:41 GMT -5
Yeah, they wear little ruts in the wire - and smooth over the sharp edges between the atoms.... a...yup... Metal does not change significantly with use (in the electronic sense)... which rules out interconnects and speaker cables. That goes double (or more) for power cables because: 1) They don't burn in anyway. 2) The job of a power supply is to turn whatever comes in via the power cord into clean power to run the device; so, even if the power cord made a difference, a properly working power supply will remove that difference. Speakers; definitely yes - especially woofers (ditto for headphones). I've never heard a solid state component burn in, but some people insist that they have, and electrolytic capacitors do change over time - so that's at least possible. Tubes definitely change over time. HOWEVER, human beings are also subject to burn-in.  After you listen to any component for a while, it starts to sound "normal" - because your brain gets used to what it sounds like. If it's really bad, it starts to annoy greatly; although you'd be amazed what you'll get used to if you DON'T get exposed to other stuff to contrast it to. If it's not too bad, your brain pretty quickly "recalibrates" itself so that what it's used to hearing sounds "normal". (We have evolved to be very sensitive to differences in things; and establishing a "norm" lets us do this.) So, yes, this means that you start not noticing minor flaws after a few hours - or days - and so your PERCEPTION is that those flaws have been reduced or eliminated. Of course, the only way to prove this would be to set up a group of people who are quite convinced that they have stuff that's "burned in", then swap SOME of it for brand new versions of the same thing and see how many guess correctly which components have been swapped. (In fact, a "full blind" test, where they aren't even aware when the swaps will take place, would be the best.) Maybe the electrons flow faster because previous ones have paved the way...  Also, don't forget the metaphysical reactions!  Hmm. I wonder if the cable smells toasty, after burn-in. Barbeque smell perhaps? Can one burn-in too much and char the cable?  Keith, I for one sure glad your here making sense of this all, is what you do Best! Thanks Big Guy! I have pick up some of the best tips on audio/video gear from you.. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 9:27:34 GMT -5
Keith..Outstanding post!.."human beings are also subject to "burn-in"..lolo.. sweet...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 9:33:57 GMT -5
Ok cable cookers, explain to me in a factual way what is happening to your cable during burn in. Does the signal travel faster after burn in? If so why? Does the signal carry more information after burn in? If so why? Is there some type of physical or chemical reaction taking place? If so why? Maybe the electrons flow faster because previous ones have paved the way... Also, don't forget the metaphysical reactions! Hmm. I wonder if the cable smells toasty, after burn-in. Barbeque smell perhaps? Can one burn-in too much and char the cable? Hemster,....lolo..awesome post!.."smells toasty, after burn-in"..ya killing me Brother!..very sweet indeed..I still can't stop lolo.. Luv this place..great place to hang-out in..rock on brother!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2014 9:40:19 GMT -5
Also, what about room treatments? How much burn in time do room treatments need? I bought some ATS panels and upon initial use the sound from my gear was harsh but after a few days I think the fibers blended in the panels and I got a much more tame sound. Has anyone else experienced this? Monk,...I CAN'T STOP LOLO...You Rock!..."...Totally f...kin awesome man!!..I vote for best Thread of the Month!
Mike
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Post by redog on Mar 11, 2014 10:36:26 GMT -5
I'm going to quote these again. It just makes to much sense to be ignored:
Laurie Fincham, THX Chief Scientist, during a discussion on his patio: “We’re sitting here talking outdoors, your voice sounds fine to me, and I’m having no problems understanding you. But if we go into the car, into a completely different acoustical environment, I don’t suddenly think, ‘I’ve got to EQ Brent’s voice to make it sound right in this different space.’ Your hearing adapts instantly to it.”
Paul Hales, president of Pro Audio Technology, while he was showing me the digital signal processing technology built into his company’s amplifiers: “A grand piano sounds right no matter where you place it, whether it’s in a concert hall or your living room. You don’t go in and start EQ’ing it for different acoustical environments.”
So what I'm trying to get at here, is that we do adapt to our perceptions, and acoustical surroundings. I think burn in on anything other than speakers is total fairy dust.
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Post by cwmcobra on Mar 11, 2014 10:55:12 GMT -5
Amen brother!
Cheers!
Chuck
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Post by lionear on Mar 11, 2014 11:13:31 GMT -5
You've got me worried here. I hope no one is going to say that AC polarity doesn't matter…..
I have a cable cooker, of a different brand. The sound definitely changed after being put into the cable cooker and it wasn't good. Fortunately, the cable cooker instructions said that one had to repeat the process periodically or the sound would revert. So I just kept playing the cable and eventually, the sound took the proper character of the cable brand.
I think Nordost sells a cable cooker, or will cook the cables for you. Their explanation of break-in (and cable directionality) is that there are impurities in the metal which will align and act like little diodes. They also say that the insulator will need to break in. I think the insulator part might have to do with the plastics drying out or something. (Of course, this is claimed by a company that sells cables for many thousands of dollars, so its all marketing bunk.)
If you'd like to hear what my cable cooker does, you can send your cable to me. If you like the sound, I'll give you the cooker. Actually, if anyone wants the cooker, just let me know. (Please note, it's set for 240VAC.)
I think all this started in the 1980's, with a product called the Sumiko Fluxbuster. This sent a flux busting signal into a cartridge. The Fluxbuster was no longer made after a while and became a bit of a collector's item. Then Aesthetix came up with their own version (http://www.musicdirect.com/p-207-aesthetix-abcd-1-cartridge-demagnetizer.aspx). How did it work? I have no idea. How did it sound? It definitely improved the sound. A friend of mine had a Koetsu Rosewood Signature - and he fluxbusted it every week or so. I believe Cardas came up with a "sweep" track on one of their LP's. You played the track to "flux bust" your entire system.
To the original poster: you might have said that you would have to charge extra if the components were broken in. :-)
As for whether cables break in, and whether there's cable directionality, there's a simple test. Just buy two sets of cable. Use one until it's broken in - say 2 months of heavy use. Then swap them out for the unused cable and listen for any difference. Then switch back to the original set and listen for a while - say a few days. Then reverse the direction and listen for any difference. If you don't hear any difference, then that's your reality. If you do hear a difference, then that's your reality, too. Hi-fi is a very personal thing - it's not a democratic election where one side wins or loses based on popularity. We're all grown up and it's our money - we can spend it any way we choose.
Just trust your ears. After all, the average man or woman in the street thinks all audiophiles are crazy and there's no difference between lossy and lossless formats or wires of one gauge or another.
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Post by frenchyfranky on Mar 11, 2014 11:18:14 GMT -5
For optical cable we have this little stand... it holds the cable with one end near a light bulb.... (and for faster burn-in we have a black box you can stick the other end into so the light runs through faster). Although some people recommend playing TV pictures through it for a more consistent effect... Wow, are they manufacturing laser lens cooker too? And optical cable cooker too? I'm very interested... Can I try this at the full moon? |
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Post by deltadube on Mar 11, 2014 14:18:35 GMT -5
Also, what about room treatments? How much burn in time do room treatments need? I bought some ATS panels and upon initial use the sound from my gear was harsh but after a few days I think the fibers blended in the panels and I got a much more tame sound. Has anyone else experienced this? Monk,...I CAN'T STOP LOLO...You Rock!..."...Totally f...kin awesome man!!..I vote for best Thread of the Month!
Mike
cable cooking is where its at mike... I like my medium rare with ketchup Heinz of course!!! cheers |
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Post by Priapulus on Mar 11, 2014 14:51:02 GMT -5
It is well known that organ pipes have a "burn-in" period of about 20 years. New pipes can have a harsh sound that mellows out in time. A lot of serious research was done, metallurgy studied, perhaps natural annealing of the metal? Finally someone noted that the harshness returned if you washed the pipes. The tonal improvement came from the accumulation of dirt. Perhaps some master builders secretly mist dirt onto their new pipes, to gain a mature, natural sound...
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Post by Gary Cook on Mar 11, 2014 15:23:22 GMT -5
There was a saxophonist in a band I worked with frequently that didn't polish the inside of his saxes, only the outside. He believed polishing them changed their sound, not tune, just the vibrato, resonance. Having worked with a number of saxophonists, plus it's my favourite musical instrument, I can't say as I could hear a difference between a shiny sax and a non shiny one, but he believed it and he could sure as hell play.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by garbulky on Mar 11, 2014 15:33:16 GMT -5
Also, what about room treatments? How much burn in time do room treatments need? I bought some ATS panels and upon initial use the sound from my gear was harsh but after a few days I think the fibers blended in the panels and I got a much more tame sound. Has anyone else experienced this? You're telling me you didn't iron the panels first?! Rookie mistake monku! |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 11, 2014 15:42:56 GMT -5
Also, what about room treatments? How much burn in time do room treatments need? I bought some ATS panels and upon initial use the sound from my gear was harsh but after a few days I think the fibers blended in the panels and I got a much more tame sound. Has anyone else experienced this? You're telling me you didn't iron the panels first?! Rookie mistake monku! You're right, my mistake. But now a question for you - what about the iron? Should that be burned in first or not? |
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Post by redog on Mar 11, 2014 15:53:27 GMT -5
You're telling me you didn't iron the panels first?! Rookie mistake monku! You're right, my mistake. But now a question for you - what about the iron? Should that be burned in first or not? I think your onto something here! Maybe we should "invent" a power outlet that promotes healthy burn-in of all your electrical devices. |
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Post by jefft51 on Mar 11, 2014 15:59:02 GMT -5
Mechanical burn in is the key. I find there are lots of things that work better with a bit of percussive maintenance. As far as cables, you need to exercise them a bit. Swing them around, crack them like a whip. Makes all the molecules line up properly.
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Post by garbulky on Mar 11, 2014 16:01:09 GMT -5
You're telling me you didn't iron the panels first?! Rookie mistake monku! You're right, my mistake. But now a question for you - what about the iron? Should that be burned in first or not? That is a good question! And for that we have to investigate if it is a steam iron or not. Either way, they should definitely be turned to the "burn" setting. |
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Wow, are they manufacturing laser lens cooker too? And optical cable cooker too? I'm very interested... 
After you listen to any component for a while, it starts to sound "normal" - because your brain gets used to what it sounds like.
