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Post by Porscheguy on May 15, 2014 19:18:27 GMT -5
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Post by pop on May 15, 2014 19:30:41 GMT -5
Sure! Look at the huge surge vinyl is receiving. HFPA, or bluray audio, is universal, It doesn't require special gear to play it with so to say. I think if they would release "mainstream" artists it would definitely go mainstream.
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Post by Porscheguy on May 15, 2014 19:39:28 GMT -5
Sure! Look at the huge surge vinyl is receiving. HFPA, or bluray audio, is universal, It doesn't require special gear to play it with so to say. I think if they would release "mainstream" artists it would definitely go mainstream. I think vinyl has had a mild comeback because it is nostalgic, it certainly isn't about SQ. I think most people don't really care, especially younger ones that buy 90% of all the music sold. I was at my neighbors house last weekend and their system was an iPod streaming to (1) Sonos Play 5. They thought it was amazing....
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Post by pop on May 15, 2014 19:50:32 GMT -5
Sure! Look at the huge surge vinyl is receiving. HFPA, or bluray audio, is universal, It doesn't require special gear to play it with so to say. I think if they would release "mainstream" artists it would definitely go mainstream. I think vinyl has had a mild comeback because it is nostalgic, it certainly isn't about SQ. I think most people don't really care, especially younger ones that buy 90% of all the music sold. I was at my neighbors house last weekend and their system was an iPod streaming to (1) Sonos Play 5. They thought it was amazing.... That's true, but I am 28 years old and am loving Hi-Res albums. So I would be a "younger" fella. The problem is availability. Think about Hi-Res options. I am a freak of nature, 28 years old and I love Diana Krall, Norah Jones etc. This is typically what you get with Hi-Res. Mainstream age is most likely 10-30. These age groups need different titles. Put Lady Gaga on bluray audio and watch them sell. I guess now that I rethink my initial response, it would be hard for Hi-Res to go "mainstream" but it could be much more popular than it is. I think HFPA will surely help with this. If you were listening through a sound bar why would you purchase Hi-Res music? I would like to retract to "maybe"
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Post by Porscheguy on May 15, 2014 19:54:47 GMT -5
I think vinyl has had a mild comeback because it is nostalgic, it certainly isn't about SQ. I think most people don't really care, especially younger ones that buy 90% of all the music sold. I was at my neighbors house last weekend and their system was an iPod streaming to (1) Sonos Play 5. They thought it was amazing.... That's true, but I am 28 years old and am loving Hi-Res albums. So I would be a "younger" fella. The problem is availability. Think about Hi-Res options. I am a freak of nature, 28 years old and I love Diana Krall, Norah Jones etc. This is typically what you get with Hi-Res. Mainstream age is most likely 10-30. These age groups need different titles. Put Lady Gaga on bluray audio and watch them sell. I guess now that I rethink my initial response, it would be hard for Hi-Res to go "mainstream" but it could be much more popular than it is. I think HFPA will surely help with this. If you were listening through a sound bar why would you purchase Hi-Res music? I would like to retract to "maybe" But you and I (and most here) are enthusiasts and are a very small minority. Many of my friends don't even have a CD player..
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Post by pop on May 15, 2014 20:53:51 GMT -5
You make good points. Maybe my vision is just wishful thinking for more releases. Gotta stay positive.
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Post by Chuck Elliot on May 15, 2014 21:04:11 GMT -5
I think the real question is how to get the ear-bud crowd into a good mid-fi system and let them grow from there. Most of us didn’t start with a pre/power amp system and big speakers. We hobbled together the best we could and advanced from there.
I would see this as a unit with the following:
Built in iPod and Android DIGITAL dock, USB and Toslink. They may only have MP3s now, but can grow into lossless and HD.
Must have simple HT support. 3 channel minimum 5.1 max. Dolby and DTS versions. 2-HDMI inputs. As auto as possible. No DRC just simple setup.
Use the powered speaker concept with various existing AirMotiv speakers as choices. Perhaps even something like a new model 2 for the very low cost solution.
Analog input so you could expand with a XPS-1 to the retro turntable world or some other analog source.
Optional sub connection!
Get them this far and those that are really interested will grow from there.
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Post by Axis on May 15, 2014 21:47:07 GMT -5
I am going to get one of those Sony Walkman NWZ-ZX1 high-resolution 128GB audio players when they come out here in the US. I am going to load it up with uncompressed audio files. I still have not ripped my cd's uncompressed to my pc yet. I only use audio files for portable use. I have a an older Sony Digital Walkman I use with ear buds and I listen to YouTube stuff I post here on my pc for now. I am good with CD quality on my Emotiva gear. When I get something that will play Hi Res I will give a try and see if it makes a difference. Just having something that plays uncompressed audio and enough memory space to put enough songs on will be nice. Audio files are about portability to me. At home I will stick a cd in my erc-1 or throw an album on my turntable. To me Apple has destroyed the world of music and how its listened too.
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Post by Chuck Elliot on May 15, 2014 22:08:39 GMT -5
...To me Apple has destroyed the world of music and how its listened too. Shouldn't you blame Sony and the first Walkman? They started the portable music thing.
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Post by Axis on May 15, 2014 22:32:11 GMT -5
...To me Apple has destroyed the world of music and how its listened too. Shouldn't you blame Sony and the first Walkman? They started the portable music thing. Yup, your right. I guess it's hard to really blame anyone. It was the beginning of the internet age and file sharing sites like Napster but Apple took it to a whole new level.
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Post by cd on May 16, 2014 8:25:19 GMT -5
"I am going to get one of those Sony Walkman NWZ-ZX1 high-resolution 128GB audio players when they come out here in the US. I am going to load it up with uncompressed audio files. "
Why are you gung-ho on un-compressed files? They just take up more space. Use something like FLAC and you can enjoy twice as much music from the same disc space. And you will give up no sound quality in doing so, despite the claims made by the audiophools. Of course, knowing Sony, their unit probably does not support FLAC playback.
SONY = Standards: Ours, Not Yours.
"Shouldn't you blame Sony and the first Walkman? They started the portable music thing."
Not true. The portable music thing started with shirt pocket AM radios way back in the early 60s...
CD
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Post by drtrey3 on May 16, 2014 8:30:14 GMT -5
I must heartily disagree that vinyl is not about SQ. A decent vinyl setup kicks a decent cd setup's aluminum ass to my ears. Mp3s? Fuggetaboutit. CDs are easier to transport, easier to setup, and do not have clicks and pops of course. Vinyl is much less likely to be over-compressed and has that wonderful analog liquidity. I listen to a LOT of cd quality files and really enjoy them (Heart to Heart by Marcia Ball, Irma Thomas, and Tracy Nelson as I type), but vinyl is at least the equivalent of a well done cd, and best of luck finding one of those outside of RR.
There, I feel much better!
Trey
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Post by cardiffkook on May 16, 2014 9:39:11 GMT -5
I am not sure why hi-res would ever take off with the general public.
Most people listen to music, not sound quality. Those that do listen to sound quality, usually do not have gear which is good enough to reveal differences between even 320 and CD. We can hear the difference, but even audiophiles debate the cost/benefit of streaming Qobuz as opposed to Beats or Mog. I would guess that only the tiniest minority of people could tell the difference reliably between CD and hi res, assuming they had a system which is capable (which they don't and never will), and bit partially none of these would either care or be willing to pay more. Those that do are audiophiles. But we are back to a nitche market.
The only hi res I listen to regularly is SACD. Here, my Oppo does the digital conversion, sending the analogue out to my preamp. The outboard DAC/digital preamp i have oddly sounds superior on most Discs than the Oppo into the analogue pre. Said another way, in my system, CDs often sound better than SACDs due to the processing stream.
Next we throw in that a good number of hi res recordings are just up sampled CDs. More money for the same old thing.
As for albums. I too am amazed at how much better some albums sound. It is not subtle. Indeed it is so unsubtle that the only obvious explanation is that the two mediums are often mastered and equalized totally differently (and inconsistently, I prefer CDs on many well recorded performances). We then build systems around one sound or the other and hear the other as wrong.
What I would like to see is the following....
Performances should be recorded and mastered to the highest possible sound quality at the highest practical resolution. From this, the various media can be generated. When we buy the music we buy rights to the recording and the resolution decision is up to us. An independent source, like underwriters laboratory, comes up with a scoring system on recording and mastering quality. We should have a scoring system. Most albums sound like crap. Most hi res and audio vinyl is just polishing a you know what.
I also want world peace.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2014 9:49:42 GMT -5
Can We Sell Hi-Res Audio to the Mainstream Music Lover? Slowly yes, especially when the affordability factor kicks in. But, it starts with education.
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Post by AudioHTIT on May 16, 2014 10:01:42 GMT -5
At this point I think the only way 'mainstream' music lovers will buy hi-rez is when it can be easily downloaded from a popular site like iTunes. I don't think the mainstream listener has the patience to wait for a physical format to arrive, or go to the store to buy it. The music server, whether it be an iPod, iMac, or some high end device is too compelling and feeding it has to be easy. While we may be willing to rip disks into our libraries I'd say most would find this too much trouble, and ripping Blu-Ray or vinyl isn't going to happen for most. What about the latest American Idol or Voice download, they get pretty popular and may never see a physical disk, gotta have it tonight. There's too much IGS (Instant Gratification Syndrome), "we want the world and we want it ... NOW!"
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Post by routlaw on May 16, 2014 11:44:15 GMT -5
The article reads more like a disguised infomercial put out by Sony or at least done so in a way that Sony gets a huge credit for promoting hi-res audio and thus their products and lets not forget the vast amount of music they can offer for sale in yet another new format. I'm not sure who has done more to harm the industry Sony or Apple but it appears to be a neck and neck race to the bottom IMHO. While I love my Apple products, I also realize and have stated over and over again the damage iTunes has done to the world of music over the last couple of decades. What we have in this country/culture is a mass music market fed and gorged on the equivalent of fast food franchises. Give me as much as I can digest and NOW. I voted no, and quite frankly do not believe the industry has a ghost chance in hell of gaining of creating critical mass in hi-res audio. Even if Apple does start selling "real" hi-res audio my belief is it will be years out before any real traction is gained by the masses. I've said it before and will repeat. If I had a dollar for every musicphile who has never heard of SACD, DVD-A, Blu Ray audio, HD Tracks or equivalent in conversation I could have long been retired by now. Just recently I asked a good friend who is as hip, vibrant and aware especially in the world of music as anyone I know what she thought of Pono. Never heard of it, nor had any of her younger co-workers and this is in a college town thats fairly new age, hip, vibrant and aware as well. Other than myself I have yet to find one single person in this town who knows what Pono is. Maybe they are out there, but they have eluded me so far. Thats my two cents worth.
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Post by phatfos1 on May 16, 2014 12:28:23 GMT -5
Yup. HD Audio through iTunes is the next wave of huge money. It's subscription-based, though, and streaming for the most part. There will be multiple levels of service allowing for download of the HD files, but at a premium with digital rights management. The individuals paying $199, $299, $399 for Beats Headphones are certainly going to buy into the inevitable marketing hype that will come with HD iTunes subscriptions. I promise you those massive data farms in NC that Apple is building/has built are for something that is game changing once again. Charging people to "upgrade" (ie stream higher quality) versions of their existing music collections is the pure found profit holy grail of business, and it'll be easy to sell it as such to record companies looking to recoup the billions they lost through Napster et. al.
So, you watch, this Beats Audio purchase by Apple will be yet another "genius business move" if for no other reason than literally every single Beats headphone buyer (millions of people) will be "required" to subscribe less they not get their $199, $299, $399 worth of audio quality out of their headphones. Countless big-name artists will be shot in profile against a white background with irresistibly catchy background hipster/hip hiphop (depending on the viewing demographic) tunes proclaiming that THIS is how they intended their music to be heard (yeah, Neil, you got that part right). Once these Beats owners are converted into pseudo audiophiles absolutely certain that the incrementally increased volume of their HD iTune (mastered in HD for iTunes, of course) is actually an increase in resolution they will convert each and every one of their friends who has and is willing to spend a few hundred bucks on headphones and ten or fifteen bucks a month. And thus what was once a cottage industry aimed at us basement dwellers straining our ears to hear that brush on a snare drum becomes a massive money maker for Apple, the record companies and, to a lesser extent, musicians who have had their music stolen for the last 10-15 years. One cannot underestimate the marketing prowess and seamless delivery Apple brings to the table. There is quite simply no other company that has the brand cache and delivery ecosystem that Apple has. It's unlike any entertainment model, ever. Not only is Apple perceived by the masses as a top of the line brand, they are extremely adept at convincing people that they cannot live without something that they've always lived without 'till now.
It will be huge. It won't be iPod huge and it won't be iPhone huge (those two devices are half-century benchmarks for innovation), but it will be an order of magnitude more important to middle-income consumers than 3D was. 3D sold a lot of TVs and a lot of Blu Rays, even though a lot of people thought it was irrelevant and a silly addition to otherwise competent televisions. Mark my words, HD Audio from iTunes will change the music industry. I will certainly pay for it if for no other reason than it's easy to separate me from my money when it comes to this hobby. There are a lot of people who have paid hundreds of dollars for headphones out there and those people are in Apple's proverbial marketing crosshairs.
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Post by garbulky on May 16, 2014 12:40:29 GMT -5
I think the real question is how to get the ear-bud crowd into a good mid-fi system and let them grow from there. Most of us didn’t start with a pre/power amp system and big speakers. We hobbled together the best we could and advanced from there. I would see this as a unit with the following: Built in iPod and Android DIGITAL dock, USB and Toslink. They may only have MP3s now, but can grow into lossless and HD. Must have simple HT support. 3 channel minimum 5.1 max. Dolby and DTS versions. 2-HDMI inputs. As auto as possible. No DRC just simple setup. Use the powered speaker concept with various existing AirMotiv speakers as choices. Perhaps even something like a new model 2 for the very low cost solution. Analog input so you could expand with a XPS-1 to the retro turntable world or some other analog source. Optional sub connection! Get them this far and those that are really interested will grow from there. I think our expectations can be even lower to achieve what we want. See all we need to do is give them a TASTE of what good sound is like. For instance something that has a soundstage, placeable and recognizable instruments, a tiny bit of depth, and some reasonably low bass. Anything other than the mush that is diffused and everwhere like you would get a car radio. For that ....all they need to do is ditch the apple headphones on their iphones for a $10 earbud set from walmart. And then start listening to music from it. That's it. A $10 earbud set I got actually bought quite a bit of what I enjoyed in music to the table. It didn't distort at normal volumes, it did get low (though the bass was exagerated) and there was quite a nice soundstage. Best of all, the sound was better than ANY HTIB box from walmart or best buy. It also rivalled cheap-ish towers in sound quality. This is the review. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/30209There are also shure earbuds at wally world that are also nice at $15-20. Note: I didn't say headphones as you need to go to about $60 to get closer to the quality that those in ear earbuds can bring. Right now, I think people simply don't know what good sound is and why on earth that would interest them. $10 bucks and the willingness to stick something in your ear will give them that...
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on May 16, 2014 13:04:14 GMT -5
If offered at the same price and with reasonably close convenience, hi-rez music would become the new norm. However, when you have to pay extra for something that you can't tell a difference between with your gear (assuming the mainstream listener is not going to have as resolving of a system or ear as most of us) no one will accept it. First step is to offer it at the same price then offer it in the same format (i.e. streaming, disc, download) while still at that same price. When given the choice between a "Chevy" and a "Cadillac" to get groceries most would go for the convenience and price of the "Chevy". Offer them a "Cadillac" for the same price and they'll pick the "Cadillac" most of the time.
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on May 16, 2014 13:06:27 GMT -5
I must heartily disagree that vinyl is not about SQ. A decent vinyl setup kicks a decent cd setup's aluminum ass to my ears. Trey And therein lies the difference; SQ for some is the exact replication of the music while for others SQ is what sounds best to their ears.
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