KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Jun 3, 2014 8:51:21 GMT -5
I'm more of a PC person, so I'm going to leave the advice about what to use to the Mac folks... However, you should also realize that, beyond the possibility of duplicating capabilities, installing multiple player programs on the same computer at the same time can also lead to program conflicts of various sorts. (This is especially true of high-res audio players, some of which may "compete" for the same resources, or may require absolute control of the same resources.) For example, BitPerfect, which "intercepts" the audio coming from iTunes, might well conflict with another program that does the same - possibly to the point where one or the other won't work. In other words, it isn't always trivial to install two different ones and switch back and forth. Therefore, if you can find one program that does what you want well, you will be less likely to have problems. I have posted this query on Head-fi.org, but haven't received any responses yet. I shall repost it here, without wishing to hi-jack the thread. I hope the OP does not mind. It is one query with different parts, but they're all dealing with choosing a good app/audio playing software to help optimize i-tunes functionality for hi-rez music. Any helpful input would be welcome: I am considering buying one of these products (audirvana plus, Bitperfect, Fidelia) to improve my music listening experience, and I hope I can get some help here. I typically play my music from i-tunes on my Macbook pro, through apple TV via airplay... The apple tv is hooked up to my main Ht/ 2.1 stereo rig via an Emotiva DAC (DC-1) (in parenthesis, I have a synology NAS that I shall soon set up to store music and video files. I also have a Mac mini serving as an htpc in my Bedroom rig, so it would be nice to have all the music files stored in one place on the home network so that I can play them on either rig, as well as listen to them on my Macbook pro with headphones, if I choose to. Also only a tiny fraction of my music files exist, at present, in high-res format--mostly ALAC. After discovering recently that I have been shooting myself in the foot ripping my CDs to i-tunes in mp3 format, I have decided to re-rip my entire collection in lossless ALAC/FLAC for my home network, and this is also one of the reasons why I need one audio playing application to help me optimize my music. So now back to my questions.) Will Audirvana plus fulfill all my needs? Specifically speaking: when I purchase it, can I load and use it on both my Macbook pro, and my Mac Mini, or would I have to buy two licenses in order for it to serve on both machines? Does it integrate well with ipod/ipad/iphone functionalities? Also does it optimize music for headphones in the same way as Fidelia does, according to one source on the head-fi.org thread? (I have a couple of great headphone amps that I use with my two rigs, so this question applies to using the headphone with my MacBook pro alone, on the fly) Is there any advantage in owning two of these applications at the same time (e.g. Audirvana plus and Bitperfect, or Audirvana plus and Fidelia pro), or, put in another way, can Audirvana plus be adequate as a one stop solution, doing everything the other two can do? Any helpful thoughts would be welcome. I was actually on the verge of pulling the trigger tonight, first on Bitperfect, and later, on audirvana plus, but I thought I should do a little research first in order to avoid paying for redundant duplicate services and functionalities, should I end up finding one of the applications I buy inadequate for some reason. Thanks. |
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Post by routlaw on Jun 3, 2014 10:36:58 GMT -5
Thats nonsense, Mac OS will support 32 bit/ 192 Khz (and perhaps higher) assuming you have the capable dac. Where do these erroneous rumors come from? I went back to that apple forum to read again the posts. To clarify the 24/96 limit is only on the analog and optical ports. The USB will output whatever bit rate your file has. I just tested it with my new MacBook Pro and a trial version of Audirvana. Additionally, all my FLAC files are working  Interesting because several years ago I was using a Mac Book Pro, optical out @ 32 bit/192 kHz and at the time was using Pure Music for the jukebox. This was mid-late decade ± no less using Snow Leopard or OS 10.6.8. In recent years I have not used optical output but see no reason what so ever as long as your DAC supports it why any apple computer would not also have the same output. I think this is where a lot of people get confused with the computers capability when in fact its the DAC itself limiting the resolution. Hope this helps |
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Post by routlaw on Jun 3, 2014 10:45:45 GMT -5
I'm totally newbie with the Mac, can I ask you how i would go about it? Me too,,,,,,,,,where to start? Another program that will convert FLAC to any (audio) file format you want to use is MAX, also a free shareware download. The files get converted lickty split. I tend to use AIFF myself given that storage is so cheap in this day and age. It is worth noting if no one has brought this up yet, Audirvana + and Pure Music will play FLAC files even in iTunes integrated mode. Not sure about the other jukeboxes like Fidelia etc. |
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Post by audiobill on Jun 3, 2014 10:50:23 GMT -5
FWIW, PS audio recommends BitPerfect for use with Macs.
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Post by routlaw on Jun 3, 2014 10:52:45 GMT -5
I'm more of a PC person, so I'm going to leave the advice about what to use to the Mac folks... However, you should also realize that, beyond the possibility of duplicating capabilities, installing multiple player programs on the same computer at the same time can also lead to program conflicts of various sorts. (This is especially true of high-res audio players, some of which may "compete" for the same resources, or may require absolute control of the same resources.) For example, BitPerfect, which "intercepts" the audio coming from iTunes, might well conflict with another program that does the same - possibly to the point where one or the other won't work. In other words, it isn't always trivial to install two different ones and switch back and forth. Therefore, if you can find one program that does what you want well, you will be less likely to have problems. FWIW in the conversation I have never run into this issue and keep both Pure Music and Audirvana Plus as well as iTunes, Play, Max and at least one other on my Mac Mini music server. Also worth noting with Mac OS's, you can configure your dedicated computer based music server so that your preferred jukebox becomes a login item, and as such automatically gets launched during a restart. Doing this "hogs" system resources toward this one program. I always do a fresh restart when setting down for a serious listen. |
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Post by dac0964 on Jun 3, 2014 12:26:03 GMT -5
I'm totally newbie with the Mac, can I ask you how i would go about it? There are two ways you can go here: 1) Download VLC - it's a media player that will play almost anything, including FLAC (it's free) 2) Download XLD - it will convert your FLAC files to Apple Lossless (or some other format you chose, but go with ALAC). It's also free. Then just import into iTunes as usual. Feel free to message me with any Mac questions. Thanks Johnny, I'm already trying Audirvana and it seems to work with the Mac and my Flac files. |
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Post by dac0964 on Jun 3, 2014 12:27:41 GMT -5
No problem at all here. Do you use iTunes? Erwin, Sorry for the late reply. No, I'm not using iTunes and not sure if I want to. I'm trying out Audirvana as stand alone. |
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Post by dac0964 on Jun 3, 2014 12:53:40 GMT -5
I went back to that apple forum to read again the posts. To clarify the 24/96 limit is only on the analog and optical ports. The USB will output whatever bit rate your file has. I just tested it with my new MacBook Pro and a trial version of Audirvana. Additionally, all my FLAC files are working Interesting because several years ago I was using a Mac Book Pro, optical out @ 32 bit/192 kHz and at the time was using Pure Music for the jukebox. This was mid-late decade ± no less using Snow Leopard or OS 10.6.8. In recent years I have not used optical output but see no reason what so ever as long as your DAC supports it why any apple computer would not also have the same output. I think this is where a lot of people get confused with the computers capability when in fact its the DAC itself limiting the resolution. Hope this helps It also struck me as odd initially that Apple would set a limit to the bit rate that their machines can handle. But as Keith said, the Toslink standard doesn't set that limit but rather the interface chip that most of these computers use. I even went to an Apple store at the mall and talked to one of their "Geniuses" and he confirmed that 24/96 limit on the optical port. When you were running 32/192 years ago as you mentioned, can the DAC you were using then confirm that it was indeed receiving this bit rate? Like the DC-1 will show it as input rate. Could it be that the jukebox you were using indicated this but what is actually coming out of the port was only 24/96? Anyway, thanks for all your inputs to this discussion. |
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Post by audiobill on Jun 3, 2014 13:02:55 GMT -5
From Apple's website:
MacBook Pro (Retina, Late 2013): Using 192 kHz sample rate digital audio
Learn how to use 192 kHz sample rate optical digital audio with your MacBook Pro (Retina, Late 2013).
MacBook Pro (Retina, Late 2013) computers support up to a 192 kHz sample rate for audio playback when using the Toslink optical digital out port. To enable it, Select "192000.0 Hz” under the Format pop-up menu in Audio MIDI Setup.
Additional Information
The 192 kHz sample rate is not supported via the Toslink optical digital out port on earlier Mac computers. These have a maximum sample rate of 96 kHz.
Last Modified: Nov 14, 2013
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Post by dac0964 on Jun 3, 2014 14:29:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Bill. I bought last night the MacBook Pro (Retina) but have not tried the optical port and don't think will be using it. Anyway, I'm currently trying out Audirvana and seems to have no issue. I want to try also BitPerfect and see I like better. |
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Post by sahmen on Jun 3, 2014 15:31:22 GMT -5
From Apple's website: MacBook Pro (Retina, Late 2013): Using 192 kHz sample rate digital audio Learn how to use 192 kHz sample rate optical digital audio with your MacBook Pro (Retina, Late 2013). MacBook Pro (Retina, Late 2013) computers support up to a 192 kHz sample rate for audio playback when using the Toslink optical digital out port. To enable it, Select "192000.0 Hz” under the Format pop-up menu in Audio MIDI Setup. Additional Information The 192 kHz sample rate is not supported via the Toslink optical digital out port on earlier Mac computers. These have a maximum sample rate of 96 kHz. Last Modified: Nov 14, 2013 audiobill: I have the 15" version of this same model (Retina, Late 2013), but I cannot locate any "optical port" on it... Does the headphone port also double as both an optical/digital out and an analog out port, by any chance? |
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Post by audiobill on Jun 3, 2014 15:32:54 GMT -5
Yes, just plug in a minitoslink cable or adapter.
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Post by dac0964 on Jun 3, 2014 15:43:46 GMT -5
Bill, would you happen to know if the DC-1 support integer mode?
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Post by audiobill on Jun 3, 2014 16:41:16 GMT -5
I defer to Keith on this!
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Post by sharky on Jun 3, 2014 17:01:58 GMT -5
Hey there, Currently on my Mac I have installed Clementine, VLC, Vox, Audirvana and J.River. I have also tried Decibel, Pure Music, Fidelia, Amarra, BitPerfect and Swinsian. (now that's a list) They should not interfere with each other as long as you don't run more than one at the same time, especially if you have configured them for exclusive access to your audio device (the DC-1 in this case). If you do, you might loose the configurations in one of them, or get a lot of very unpleasant noise out of your speakers/headphones. I ended up purchasing J.River over Audirvana Plus because of the library funcionalities (I have a large collection) and because I can control it from my android tablet with an app made by J.River (there's an iOS version as well). Note that the Mac version of J.River is just an audio player, it doesn't play video or any of the other extra features of the windows version. If you want a small, basic, no frills, nice audio player I'd recommend Vox (new major version coming out in a few weeks). For sound quality only Audirvana, J.River, Decibel, Fidelia, Amarra or BitPerfect. The prices vary *a lot*, couldn't hear any differences so in my case it wouldn't pay going for the expensive ones. Bill, would you happen to know if the DC-1 support integer mode? Yes, yes it does. Currently using integer mode with J.River and the DC-1. Tried previously with another DAC and J.River complained the DAC didn't support it so it does do some kind of check. It works perfectly with 24/192 as you have found out already. |
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Post by routlaw on Jun 3, 2014 17:03:15 GMT -5
Bill, would you happen to know if the DC-1 support integer mode? I use integer mode using Audirvana Plus with the DC-1. As long as your jukebox does integer mode then you should be set. |
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Post by routlaw on Jun 3, 2014 17:10:35 GMT -5
Interesting because several years ago I was using a Mac Book Pro, optical out @ 32 bit/192 kHz and at the time was using Pure Music for the jukebox. This was mid-late decade ± no less using Snow Leopard or OS 10.6.8. In recent years I have not used optical output but see no reason what so ever as long as your DAC supports it why any apple computer would not also have the same output. I think this is where a lot of people get confused with the computers capability when in fact its the DAC itself limiting the resolution. Hope this helps It also struck me as odd initially that Apple would set a limit to the bit rate that their machines can handle. But as Keith said, the Toslink standard doesn't set that limit but rather the interface chip that most of these computers use. I even went to an Apple store at the mall and talked to one of their "Geniuses" and he confirmed that 24/96 limit on the optical port. When you were running 32/192 years ago as you mentioned, can the DAC you were using then confirm that it was indeed receiving this bit rate? Like the DC-1 will show it as input rate. Could it be that the jukebox you were using indicated this but what is actually coming out of the port was only 24/96? Anyway, thanks for all your inputs to this discussion. The DAC itself did not confirm, but the MIDI software did. The last time I used optical was with a Eastern Electric Dac Plus with a Mac Min 2010 model if memory serves me correct while using Pure Music as the jukebox. In any case the Midi software specified either 32 or 24 bit your choosing with what ever sample rate. EE DAC was a 32 bit machine with sample rates up to 192 KHZ. Before that as previously stated I also ran an earlier MBP with same feedback in MIDI. The last few years I have gone to USB which I much prefer. So the long and short of it is yes you can get high sample rates and bit depth with optical, whether or not its worth the effort compared to USB is debatable. |
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Post by dac0964 on Jun 3, 2014 19:05:39 GMT -5
I ended up purchasing J.River over Audirvana Plus because of the library funcionalities (I have a large collection) and because I can control it from my android tablet with an app made by J.River (there's an iOS version as well). Note that the Mac version of J.River is just an audio player, it doesn't play video or any of the other extra features of the windows version. Sharky, How is the JRiver performing so far? I tried it first cause I'm using it on my HP/Windows notebook. But i experienced weird things, like- 1). Some music track will play on the main speaker, other tracks will play on the notebook's speaker. 2). Or, the DC-1 will show a track is 96Khz, then when I play the same track again after a few minutes it will show a different sampling rate (e.g. 88.2 or 192). Thus i' m reasearching other music software and trying out Audirvana. |
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Post by GreenKiwi on Jun 3, 2014 19:18:01 GMT -5
I think that jrmc isn't ready for prime time on the Mac. Hopefully it will be when they get to MC20.
I went with bit prefect to tide me over as I didn't really like the others from a ui side
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Post by sharky on Jun 4, 2014 13:42:17 GMT -5
I ended up purchasing J.River over Audirvana Plus because of the library funcionalities (I have a large collection) and because I can control it from my android tablet with an app made by J.River (there's an iOS version as well). Note that the Mac version of J.River is just an audio player, it doesn't play video or any of the other extra features of the windows version. Sharky, How is the JRiver performing so far? I tried it first cause I'm using it on my HP/Windows notebook. But i experienced weird things, like- 1). Some music track will play on the main speaker, other tracks will play on the notebook's speaker. 2). Or, the DC-1 will show a track is 96Khz, then when I play the same track again after a few minutes it will show a different sampling rate (e.g. 88.2 or 192). Thus i' m reasearching other music software and trying out Audirvana. JRiver is performing quite alright. Version 18 (the first one available for Mac) was very buggy. Version 19 made great progresses with each new release and is pretty stable now, can't remember the last time it crashed. The only way to make it lose the speaker definitions and reverting back to the laptop speakers is by running JRiver when another player that has exclusive access to the DC-1 is already running. But then again every software that uses exclusive access will behave strangely if you try to run 2 of them simultaneously. I like Audirvana a lot (still have the free version installed), like I said the main reason for going with JRiver instead of Audirvana was the library function, where I have all the albums with cover art, all the artists, can browse by tags or by folder, perform searches, etc. Never had any mismatch with the samplerate between JRiver and the DC-1. I have set the preferences of JRiver to not mess with any sample rate and always pass the source directly to the DC-1. If you incur in that situation where you run 2 "exclusive access" player at the same time these up/downsampling definition might become garbled as well and you have to set them right again. Apart from that, all good. If you don't have use for a library function and remote control via app then you'll be perfectly well served with Audirvana, Fidelia, Amarra, Pure Music, Decibel, BitPerfect or any other quality player. |
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I have posted this query on Head-fi.org, but haven't received any responses yet. I shall repost it here, without wishing to hi-jack the thread. I hope the OP does not mind. It is one query with different parts, but they're all dealing with choosing a good app/audio playing software to help optimize i-tunes functionality for hi-rez music. Any helpful input would be welcome:
