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Post by mr on Jun 29, 2014 17:28:22 GMT -5
I have been running a UMC-200 thru a UPA-700 since January, pushing Klipsch RF-7s, RC-7, Klipsch in walls for surrounds and twin subs, a Klipsch RSW15 and a new SVS PB12. Oppo 95 for movies, SACD, DVD-A, CDs. DirecTV.
I am pleased with the upgrade from a Pio Elite SC-37. Even my wife can hear the difference. I have become a huge Emo fan in these six months. So I am seriously considering another upgrade. I am sure you understand.
I have no need in my theatre for 7 channels, simply no way to make it work. 5.1 is fine. I would like to upgrade to the XMC-1, and will do so, if and when . . . . . . .
Now, Emo is offering me, thru the new EClub, a cost effective way to upgrade my power amp to an XPA-5. First, there is a 20% discount until 7-31. And the trade in program will knock another 26% off the MSRP, leaving my cost (not including my $50 EClub membership) to $540 for the XPA-5. That is plenty doable.
If and when the XMC-1 meets expectations, I would like to utilize XLR outs on the pre/pro to connect to XLR inputs on the power amp. Can't do that with my current equipment.
Plus, I am convinced that you can never have too much power, so going from 80WPC to 200WPC is probably a good thing. And the XMC-1 can get me to 5.2. Someday.
This seems the ideal time to make a move and have the power amp paid for before the XMC-1 comes on line.
I am seeking opinions on the difference between the 700 and the 5. No, I am not asking if it will play louder. I want to know if you guys think this upgrade is a real benefit.
Any help/opinions will be appreciated!
Thanks.
Mike
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Post by knucklehead on Jun 29, 2014 18:25:13 GMT -5
With such highly efficient speakers as yours I doubt you will hear a difference.
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Post by airwolf77 on Jun 29, 2014 18:50:39 GMT -5
I hate to agree, but the Klipsch are very sensitive speakers. If you change them in the future the XPA5 could offer more to a less efficient design. Putting volume aside and thinking home theater I doubt you could pick out a difference. The XLR hook up's may be a benefit, but unless you run a long distance from the preamp to the amp, I don't think that would make a difference either.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2014 19:16:36 GMT -5
Mike, welcome to the Emotiva Lounge.
This is not an easy decision, especially since you don't give us some important facts:
How big is your room (all three dimensions) and is it open to other spaces?
Does the room have lots of sound absorption material like w/w carpeting, drapes, heavy upholstered furniture, sound panels or is it bright with wood floors, etc.
What type of music (low compressed sources) with high dynamic range (not necessarily rock) do you have and do you at times play it loud or very loud?
Do you play your movies loud or very loud.
Very important, how is your pre-pro set, as to what crossover frequency from the 5 Klipsch speakers to your subs? Are the LCR set to large or small. If the LCR are crossed to the subs at 70-80Hz then they will not take as much power to drive the lower frequencies because the amps in the subs will drive that lower bass below 70-80Hz or how you have it set. Just because the specs show, 32Hz-20kHz, +/-3dB, doesn't mean you should cross over to the towers at 35Hz or run them as large or at full range. The Klipsch and SVS subs will most likely reproduce the low bass from 70-80Hz and down more defined and with less distortion than the RF-7 and RC-7 will. Having both of them doubling up on the 80Hz or so and down frequencies will tend to make the bass muddy and boomy.
Are these RF-7 or FR-7 II?
This information will help to be able to determine how much power you might need.
Note the some here will say the Klipsch are 100dB's + in sensitivity will blow the walls down and bleed your ears with 80 watts into 8 ohms. They ignore and don't fully understand the tremendous power needed even with the very efficient Klipsch in situations where the source has a very huge dynamic range (listen to the very loud section at the beginning of the movie Gravity .... try a listen to the Telarc 1812 Overture for an amazing dynamic range). This is one reason why Klipsch, who know the power handling of their own speakers, recommends up to 250 w max continuous (1000 w peak). This means you should never encounter amp distortion when driving them.
It is very possible in your case if your room is not too large and too dead acoustic wise that 80 watts per channel into 8 ohms might be OK, especially if you don't set the Klipsch at full range. You say: I am seeking opinions on the difference between the 700 and the 5. No, I am not asking if it will play louder. You might not realize the ability to play louder because of the 200 versus 80 watts greatly improves the dynamic range and prevents amplifier clipping. When clipping does happen many folks mis-interpret what they think is too loud rather than the fact that they are actually hearing distortion due to amp clipping.
However, unless we get more info that would change my thoughts, I would jump on the chance to upgrade to the XPA-5 (71.4 lbs versus 22.9 lbs for the comparable 5 channel UPA-5). Just the huge difference in weight should tell you a lot about the far superior build quality of the XPA-5. That doesn't mean at lower volume levels the XPA-5 will necessarily sound better, but it might and the extra power will be great when needed (4dB increase). The XPA-5 will also be great and very well a necessity down the road if you ever change to less efficient speakers.
Note that some brands will tend to vary from others on their sensitivity (efficiency specs). A different Klipsch model that was specified at 97dB's efficency actually tested out in an audio/HT magazine's review at only 92.5dB. I would guess that the 102dB for the RF-7 and the 101dB for the RF-7 II specs are overstated. I'm guessing that 95-97dB's which is still very high might be more accurate.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jun 29, 2014 19:33:42 GMT -5
^ What he said.
And besides headroom and total volume, I also believe the XPA amps are faster than the UPA amps which will be noticeable on very sharp transients such as the striking of a piano key or the pluck of a string.
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Post by creimes on Jun 29, 2014 19:51:50 GMT -5
From my experience there is a different signature between the UPA and XPA series, even if you never use the extra power the XPA is not as laid back as the UPA series and a tad more dynamic sounding, some can hear it and maybe some cannot, I myself could tell a difference from my UPA-200/UPA-500 and my XPA amps that I have owned, I owned both the UPA-200 and XPA-5 at the same time and switching them back and forth I could hear these differences, just remember this is in my room with my equipment and my ears. I find that every since I have built and installed acoustic panels in my room these sort of things are more identifiable.
Chad
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Post by mr on Jun 30, 2014 11:59:21 GMT -5
My thanks to all who have replied to my info request!
I am going to attempt answering Chuckienut's questions....
First, they are the original RF-7s, not the IIs. It is not at all likely that I will replace them. I, and my ears, are 67.
The setup is in our LR (once had a dedicated room in the basement, but my wife did not like having to go downstairs to watch/listen. Kept the peace. Room-size carpets over hardwood floors, 2 large leather couches, full length drapes over floor to ceiling windows on one side, tables, lamps, etc. SQ was fairly bright before the current Emo-Q settings, now it is the best SQ, to my ears, that I have heard in my home.
All five speakers cross at 80 Hz and are set to small. Bass is clean and musical, not muddy or boomy.
I play my music pretty loud; I do not believe in "background music". A lot of rock, some jazz and pop, some classical. Almost all is sourced from SACDs, DVA-A or hi-res downloads. Occasional CDs. The same with movies. I do not invest in expensive boxes to play it quietly.
Room is 24'W x 30'D (last 6' is stairwell, open behind my sweet spot) with a cathedral ceiling that rises to 12' the centerline peak. In-wall surrounds are installed in the sloped ceiling, again, WAF. Opposite the windows the room opens to a dining/kitchen area, adding another 17'W and 30'D area with standard 8' ceiling.
My kit is installed in an expensive enclosed wall unit. If I buy the XPA5, I will have to put it on top of the unit, as it is too deep to fit inside, running 10 feet of analog cables between the 200 and the 5. Yes, the unit will support the 70 lb amp.
Hope this helps you to help me decide! Thanks so much for your input.
Mike
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Jun 30, 2014 13:15:13 GMT -5
I say do it! It's a nice move.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 13:52:11 GMT -5
Hope this helps you to help me decide! Thanks so much for your input. Mike Mike you young whippersnapper (I'm 69. the late 69's!), The 80Hz crossover is excellent and lowers somewhat the need for the lower bass power. On the other hand, that is a very large space you are filling with high quality sources for music and movies. From your additional information, my vote is most definitely for the XPA-5, no more questions asked!.
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Post by mr on Jun 30, 2014 17:25:21 GMT -5
Thanks! It's unanimous!
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Post by knucklehead on Jun 30, 2014 17:33:40 GMT -5
Good choice!
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Post by tchaik on Jun 30, 2014 18:58:29 GMT -5
Hope this helps you to help me decide! Thanks so much for your input. Mike Mike you young whippersnapper (I'm 69. the late 69's!), The 80Hz crossover is excellent and lowers somewhat the need for the lower bass power. On the other hand, that is a very large space you are filling with high quality sources for music and movies. From your additional information, my vote is most definitely for the XPA-5, no more questions asked!. agreed.... except i am not 69 yet. go with the xpa-5. i had it and it is superb. truth be told i really did not need the xpr-5 but i love thelights and i wanted it to match my xpr-2. tchaik..........
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Post by mr on Jul 1, 2014 11:22:24 GMT -5
Mike you young whippersnapper (I'm 69. the late 69's!), The 80Hz crossover is excellent and lowers somewhat the need for the lower bass power. On the other hand, that is a very large space you are filling with high quality sources for music and movies. From your additional information, my vote is most definitely for the XPA-5, no more questions asked!. agreed.... except i am not 69 yet. go with the xpa-5. i had it and it is superb. truth be told i really did not need the xpr-5 but i love thelights and i wanted it to match my xpr-2.tchaik.......... I think we all understand your well thought out reasoning? Thanks for your input!
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Post by boomzilla on Jul 1, 2014 11:38:31 GMT -5
I've currently got the XPA-5, and (for my speakers) it's as good as my XPR-2. Now I don't play loudly, nor is my room cathedral sized, but my speakers ARE lower efficiency than yours and also lower impedance.
I've also never heard the UPA amp, so I can't comment there. The XPA-5, however, is a NICE amplifier.
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Post by knucklehead on Jul 1, 2014 11:57:34 GMT -5
Let us know what differences you hear over the UPA amp. I have a nephew with Klipsch RF52 Rc52 RS52 speakers - he can drive them to ear splitting levels without distortion with a Yamaha HTR-7065 that I sold him last year. It has 95wpc in 5.1 and 110wpc in stereo. Klipsch speakers are easy to drive.
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Post by neo20013 on Jul 1, 2014 12:08:59 GMT -5
In a blind test, with your equipment, i doubt you would be able to hear any difference. Nevertheless, for the price you could get the XPA-5 now, it could be a good move, as you could upgrade your speakers later.
Sound wise, IMO, an upgrade to a better subwoofer (PB13-Ultra, for example), or the same value in room treatments would lead to a greater sonic improvement.
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Post by mr on Jul 2, 2014 10:22:55 GMT -5
Hope this helps you to help me decide! Thanks so much for your input. Mike Mike you young whippersnapper (I'm 69. the late 69's!), The 80Hz crossover is excellent and lowers somewhat the need for the lower bass power. On the other hand, that is a very large space you are filling with high quality sources for music and movies. From your additional information, my vote is most definitely for the XPA-5, no more questions asked!. Truth to tell, I haven't snapped any whippers in years! But thanks for the encouragement! Now, if I can only remember where I put my whippers.
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Post by mr on Aug 7, 2014 15:52:55 GMT -5
I will be installing the XPA-5 next week, as soon as my new Salamander box arrives. Gave my wife back the nice living room cabinetry I have been using for the past 10 years. She is happy, I am happy.
Put my name on the XMC-1 list this week too. While I will be using the UMC-200 for now, I am configuring the Salamander to fit the XMC. Maybe by October?
My thanks to all who chipped in with advice, etc.
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Post by jackpine on Aug 7, 2014 16:26:04 GMT -5
I think you'll appreciate the Salamander as much as your wife appreciates her cabinetry. I visited a local audio store recently where a salesman was in the middle of assembling one. It gave me a real appreciation for the their build quality and ease of assembly.
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Post by mr on Aug 16, 2014 18:41:09 GMT -5
I think you'll appreciate the Salamander as much as your wife appreciates her cabinetry. I visited a local audio store recently where a salesman was in the middle of assembling one. It gave me a real appreciation for the their build quality and ease of assembly. Customer service from my vendor was terrible, but the actual mfgr was great. They proved their product to me. I had ordered the dedicated wheels, and one of the four was incomplete. One phone call and Salamander sent a new one second day delivery. The completed box is really nice, looks good, rock solid.
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