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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 8, 2014 10:45:20 GMT -5
Well...
I originally had four ATS panels (2" x 24" x 48") behind the speakers
One ATS panel (2" x 24" x 48") behind the listening couch
And I just added:
Two ATS panels (4" x 24" x 36") on the ceiling first reflection points
Two ATS panels (4" x 24" x 36") on the side walls' first reflection points
One ATS bass trap (17" x 17" x 24" x 48") in the corner with the sub
You know what? NO BIG DIFFERENCE after putting in the bass trap & the 4" absorbers.
Minor differences? Maybe. Bass difference? Maybe.
Overall - not a good investment for the extra stuff. Conclusion: The first panels make the biggest difference (and ARE worth the money). After initial slap-echo is tamed, not much else to be had.
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 8, 2014 10:49:18 GMT -5
Well... I originally had four ATS panels (2" x 24" x 48") behind the speakers One ATS panel (2" x 24" x 48") behind the listening couch And I just added: Two ATS panels (4" x 24" x 36") on the ceiling first reflection points Two ATS panels (4" x 24" x 36") on the side walls' first reflection points One ATS bass trap (17" x 17" x 24" x 48") in the corner with the sub You know what? NO BIG DIFFERENCE after putting in the bass trap & the 4" absorbers. Minor differences? Maybe. Bass difference? Maybe. Overall - not a good investment for the extra stuff. Conclusion: The first panels make the biggest difference (and ARE worth the money). After initial slap-echo is tamed, not much else to be had. Maybe you aren't using the right toggle bolts or velcro. Are you using Audio velcro or just the plain version?
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 8, 2014 10:50:32 GMT -5
Mark Levinson Superglue with Peter Belt foils!
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 8, 2014 10:53:35 GMT -5
Mark Levinson Superglue with Peter Belt foils! Then maybe you should try foil lifters.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 8, 2014 10:59:01 GMT -5
Women use lifters - I like the effect just fine, thanks! LOL
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DYohn
Emo VIPs
Posts: 18,487
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Post by DYohn on Jul 8, 2014 12:24:59 GMT -5
There is always a point of diminishing returns, and perhaps you've found it. By the same token, you may also just have the panels in the wrong locations, or perhaps you are using the wrong approach to correct whatever it is you are trying to correct. Have you measured the room to find out what it is you are hearing?
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
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Post by KeithL on Jul 8, 2014 13:16:18 GMT -5
Personally, I would strongly prefer to have something bolt-like actually screwed into joists. Drywall anchors are usually intended mostly for hanging things on a vertical wall, and it's much easier to pull them straight out - which is the direction of force when hanging something from a ceiling. They can also work their way loose over time. All of those weight ratings are based on the idea that everything - including the installation - will be perfect. Plasterboard is also rather delicate, so a little dampness, or even vibration, can weaken it a lot without its being obvious. Since those panels have wooden frames, there is a lot of potential for serious damage (to your head or to anything else under them). I thing actual bolts would be a lot safer. (I would only use adhesive, or drywall anchors, with panels made of foam only - which can't really hurt you even if they fall.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 8, 2014 13:32:51 GMT -5
There is always a point of diminishing returns, and perhaps you've found it. By the same token, you may also just have the panels in the wrong locations, or perhaps you are using the wrong approach to correct whatever it is you are trying to correct. Have you measured the room to find out what it is you are hearing? I've located the panels in the positions recommended by both ATS & GIK acoustics online tutorials. That being the case, I'm relatively certain that your first sentence is correct - I've reached the point of diminishing returns. The good news for others is this: You won't have to spend a lot of money on room treatment AND you do need to spend a little for the biggest effect. The first $300 of room treatments I put up made a "night-and-day" difference in the acoustics of my room. Now that being said - my room is NOT "normal," so YOU may need more bass traps than I. From an expense standpoint, I've gotten a bigger "bang-per-buck" out of room treatments than any equipment expenditure (even speakers). So at least do a "clap test" in your room - hear any echo? Buy some room treatment (or make your own). Cheers - Boom
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 8, 2014 13:40:33 GMT -5
Now that being said - my room is NOT "normal," so YOU may need more bass traps than I. Cheers - Boom Are you sure it is the ROOM and not the BOOM that is "not normal?"
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 8, 2014 13:48:20 GMT -5
Boom has NEVER claimed to be "normal." LOL
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jul 8, 2014 14:48:59 GMT -5
I'm really surprised that you note little difference with the new panels.
Before adding the new panels, you had very little bass absorption with all 2" panels.
They key frequency is about 500Hz. Above this point there is little difference between 2" and 4". Below this point there is a huge difference.
I have noted a difference each time I added more panels.
My setup: The first 2 panels were the window valance panels, 4" They are placed very close to the front ceiling/wall, but only 12" x " 36" x 4" The next 3 were at the rear ceiling/wall. 21" x 33" x 4" The last 2 were to remove the reflections from the 2 large windows in the front. These were 2" panels 32" x 40". They are removable as they inset into the window frames.
If I add ceiling panels they will be large 2" panels that I think I will build myself. 4 panels 48" x 48".
If I were you, I'd play with my panel positions. That and learn to use REW to measure what's happening.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 8, 2014 15:49:56 GMT -5
Chuck - The reason that the thicker panels made so little difference in my room is that there are effectively no "corners." Every corner is open to another part of the house (yep, all four). That being the case, there just isn't much LF resonance. Since the bass is already tamed by the room's own acoustics, the only thing that the panels need do is prevent slap echo. The first ones did that very effectively. The newer (and thicker) ones have far less work to do.
For the vast majority of rooms, you're absolutely correct - bass traps and thicker panels are definitely the way to go. My room is, apparently, unique.
Boom
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Jul 8, 2014 15:55:34 GMT -5
Chuck - The reason that the thicker panels made so little difference in my room is that there are effectively no "corners." Every corner is open to another part of the house (yep, all four). That being the case, there just isn't much LF resonance. Since the bass is already tamed by the room's own acoustics, the only thing that the panels need do is prevent slap echo. The first ones did that very effectively. The newer (and thicker) ones have far less work to do. For the vast majority of rooms, you're absolutely correct - bass traps and thicker panels are definitely the way to go. My room is, apparently, unique. Boom Is there a map or picture of your room someplace?
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