hemster
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Post by hemster on Jul 26, 2014 22:59:55 GMT -5
Just curious: Do you have the June 3, 2014 firmware on your 93? Yes I do. I'll just add that with my Oppo BDP-95 there's no problem with any audio glitch.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Jul 26, 2014 23:25:44 GMT -5
I'm not sure, but I think zone 2 can only output stereo PCM. I'm surprised you are even getting one channel. It's my understanding that XMC 1 does not convert DSD to PCM. Aren't the Zone 2 outputs 2 channel analog?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 27, 2014 0:16:25 GMT -5
This is my understanding as well, but you can send either DSD or PCM from the Oppo, and then the XMC-1 determines which one and what to do from there. Yeah, I wondered if it was supported, but definitely got one channel. Thought it might be a connection or amp problem, but reversed the leads at the XMC-1 and it went to the other channel. Also, the Record outputs are OK with DSD Direct... I assume your Zone 2 is set to 'sync' (with the Main zone)? I don't think you can get HDMI out the Zones any other way right? Seems very odd that the record out is OK but not Zone 2.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 27, 2014 0:18:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure, but I think zone 2 can only output stereo PCM. I'm surprised you are even getting one channel. It's my understanding that XMC 1 does not convert DSD to PCM. Aren't the Zone 2 outputs 2 channel analog? I'm not quite understanding what Jim is saying either? Maybe that the DSD wouldn't downmix properly to stereo? But again the record outs work fine?
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Post by petew on Jul 27, 2014 7:50:50 GMT -5
Doesn't the DSD stream go straight to the DACs, bypassing digital processing? I think the downmix is a function of the Momentum Data Systems DSP card, from reading the description on their site. mds.com/products/dae-77
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geebo
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"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
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Post by geebo on Jul 27, 2014 8:41:46 GMT -5
Doesn't the DSD stream go straight to the DACs, bypassing digital processing? I think the downmix is a function of the Momentum Data Systems DSP card, from reading the description on their site. mds.com/products/dae-77Yes, DSD output gets converted directly to analog and no processing is possible.
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Post by petew on Jul 27, 2014 9:11:58 GMT -5
...when the XMC-1 is decoding the DSD stream, the zone-2 outputs output only the left channel. This would seem to be a problem with the XMC-1. The Record outputs are a good stereo mix down. Both these tests were with a CD containing a 5.1 DSD track, and the XMC-1 was in DSD Direct mode. When the OPPO converts the stream to PCM, the zone-2 outputs are fine.... This comment is what prompted my prior post re DSD and processing.
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Post by bluemeanies on Jul 27, 2014 9:25:08 GMT -5
As I promised, this thread is for discussion of stuff posted in the "XMC-1 : Inside Tips" thread. (You can also use it to post suggestions for topics you want me to cover there.) This thread is intended for owners (and future owners) of the XMC-1. It is a happy place... intended to help you get the most out of your XMC-1. Of course, anyone who's just considering becoming an XMC-1 owner is more than welcome.... However, we will NOT tolerate sour pusses in this forum.... If you want to be a sour puss, there are plenty of other forums where you can do it.... WHAT THIS THREAD IS NOT:This thread is NOT a forum for bashing the XMC-1 and complaining that it won't make coffee, or play 8k video, or wash the dishes..... This thread is NOT a forum for complaining about our delivery schedule on the XMC-1, or to complain about how we share too little (or too much) information..... LOVE your entrance Keith.... I won't be buying the XMC1 because you just informed me it won't make coffee. I need my coffee every morning. Seriously...thanks for the levity.
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Post by bluemeanies on Jul 27, 2014 9:50:59 GMT -5
I think we can safely assume it's the BDP-93, since you've confirmed no problem with the BDP-103 and myself with the BDP-83. Thanks for the input! Just curious: Do you have the June 3, 2014 firmware on your 93? Hello...I have reading about this small glitch that a couple of people are concerned about and although minor it seems irritating. While I do not have the XMC1 YET I do have the Oppo 93. I had a minor issue with the Oppo93 several months ago. While watching some foreign movie with subtitles the translation could not be seen on the screen. Oppo customer service quickly addressed the problem and I was good to go. This happened right after I did a firmware update for the Oppo. Customer service told me that this will continue to happen if I incorrectly install the firmware. My 93 is connected by ethernet to my router/modem so it is very simple to download the new firmware. According to OPPO and this is in the manual to correctly install the new firmware you must CLEAR all of your information by defaulting to factory settings then do the firmware update and then re-enter your selected settings. This method assures you have downloaded the firmware updates correctly. Sorry for the long story but I thought that this may be of some use to address the problem that is in discussion here involving the XMC1 and the 93. Hope this helps.
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Post by bluemeanies on Jul 27, 2014 9:55:03 GMT -5
Does anyone know if Emotiva will have instruction videos to view on how to set up the XMC1. It seems that they have done this with some of there other products and I think it would be very useful and less challenging if instruction videos were available as well as the manual on the XMC1.
Thanks
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Post by bluescale on Jul 27, 2014 15:55:55 GMT -5
Does anyone know if Emotiva will have instruction videos to view on how to set up the XMC1. It seems that they have done this with some of there other products and I think it would be very useful and less challenging if instruction videos were available as well as the manual on the XMC1. Thanks I would love to see a video about using the PEQ with REW (or something similar).
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Post by multicore on Jul 27, 2014 20:36:25 GMT -5
Doesn't the DSD stream go straight to the DACs, bypassing digital processing? I think the downmix is a function of the Momentum Data Systems DSP card, from reading the description on their site. mds.com/products/dae-77From the manual page 35: Note: On the XMC-1, the Zone 2 Input is selected independently from the main zone. ANY input that is currently selected as the Main Zone Input can also be selected as the Zone 2 Input. If you wish to set the Zone 2 Input to a different source than the main zone, you will be able to select ANALO G sources, 2 CHANNEL PCM DIGITAL sources, and DSD sources. You will NOT be able to select a different digital surround sound or HDMI source for the Zone 2 Input than is selected for the Main Zone.
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Post by roadrunner on Jul 28, 2014 0:09:49 GMT -5
OK. Received mine yesterday. Set speaker distances (which is to the inch BTW) and levels via my trusty old analog Radio Shack meter. Left my USP-1, ERC-1, UMC-1, XDA-1, Paradigm sub controller (phase, LPF, Level) out of the system. Sounds so good already that I'm considering selling all this gear, just using the Oppo for disks letting the XMC-1 do all the decoding. DSDs decode very well, sound amazing. I have loved the USP-1 especially and now have no phono preamp, but what do you all think about this radically reduced signal path idea? Any reason to keep the ERC-1, or the others? I found it difficult to understand how the various trigger option are "and'd" or "or'd" together. Trying to trigger my XPA-5 which handles the center and surround channels. I couldn't get a trigger to work based on speaker use exclusively without having the "main power" also selected. But that seems to trigger it whenever main power is on regardless of speaker use. Not a big deal, but the final manual needs to be a bit more specific as to how these selections interact. Keith? Also got an audio glitch (sub-second noise) via the Oppo and XMC-1 at the end of a DSD CD after the last cut. Seems like the stream wasn't shut down gracefully. Haven't tried to reproduce this yet. Jim when I got my ERC-1 a couple of years ago I was curious about whether I should keep it or return it during the 30 day trial period. As a result, I compared several dozen CDs being played on the ERC-1 and on an Oppo 93. I used my Radio Shack meter to ensure both players were at the same sound level and I found the ERC-1 had a much better sound stage and had a more accurate attack and decay of the music notes... very noticeable on piano music. At this point I decided to a/b identical copies of the same CDs, one in the ERC-1 and the other in the Oppo 93, with each player started at the same time and at the same volume level and would switch back and forth between the two players. Again I matched volume levels with my Radio Shack meter. I then enlisted my brother and wife to see if they could notice any difference between the two players and to identify which unit they preferred. We all agreed that the ERC-1 sounded more "life-like", more accurate, and had better sound staging. Since then, I have upgraded to the ERC-2 and the Oppo 103 and have found the Emotiva ERC-2 continued its dominance over the Oppo Universal Disc Players. I spent a few hours a/b testing the ERC-2 against the Oppo 103 and found the Emotiva players continued to hold an advantage in sound staging and life-like attack and decay of the music, very noticeable on piano and drums. As a result, I play almost all of my music on the Emotiva CD players. I use my Oppo to play SACD and Blu Ray discs. I wish the Oppo players did out-perform the Emotiva ERC CD Players on playback of CD music as it would save me hundreds of dollars not having to buy the better performing Emotiva CD Players. However, most of my music listening is via CDs and I love listening to music so I happily spend the money on the ERC Players to provide the most life-like reproductions of my favorite music. I have the ERC-1 in my bedroom system and the ERC-2 in my main system. By this time next week I will be playing the ERC-2 through my new XMC-1. My XMC-1 shipped this past Friday so I expect it will be delivered on Tuesday afternoon.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jul 28, 2014 0:31:16 GMT -5
Jim when I got my ERC-1 a couple of years ago I was curious about whether I should keep it or return it during the 30 day trial period. As a result, I compared several dozen CDs being played on the ERC-1 and on an Oppo 93. I used my Radio Shack meter to ensure both players were at the same sound level and I found the ERC-1 had a much better sound stage and had a more accurate attack and decay of the music notes... very noticeable on piano music. At this point I decided to a/b identical copies of the same CDs, one in the ERC-1 and the other in the Oppo 93, with each player started at the same time and at the same volume level and would switch back and forth between the two players. Again I matched volume levels with my Radio Shack meter. I then enlisted my brother and wife to see if they could notice any difference between the two players and to identify which unit they preferred. We all agreed that the ERC-1 sounded more "life-like", more accurate, and had better sound staging. Since then, I have upgraded to the ERC-2 and the Oppo 103 and have found the Emotiva ERC-2 continued its dominance over the Oppo Universal Disc Players. I spent a few hours a/b testing the ERC-2 against the Oppo 103 and found the Emotiva players continued to hold an advantage in sound staging and life-like attack and decay of the music, very noticeable on piano and drums. As a result, I play almost all of my music on the Emotiva CD players. I use my Oppo to play SACD and Blu Ray discs. I wish the Oppo players did out-perform the Emotiva ERC CD Players on playback of CD music as it would save me hundreds of dollars not having to buy the better performing Emotiva CD Players. However, most of my music listening is via CDs and I love listening to music so I happily spend the money on the ERC Players to provide the most life-like reproductions of my favorite music. I have the ERC-1 in my bedroom system and the ERC-2 in my main system. By this time next week I will be playing the ERC-2 through my new XMC-1. My XMC-1 shipped this past Friday so I expect it will be delivered on Tuesday afternoon. I agree, I have also back to backed an ERC-3 and an Oppo 103 via a USP-1 and the ERC-3 was the family's universal preference. Yes it would be nice to have just one universal player, but not when there is such a noticeable (but not night and day) difference. Cheers Gary
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 28, 2014 0:32:24 GMT -5
OK. Received mine yesterday. Set speaker distances (which is to the inch BTW) and levels via my trusty old analog Radio Shack meter. Left my USP-1, ERC-1, UMC-1, XDA-1, Paradigm sub controller (phase, LPF, Level) out of the system. Sounds so good already that I'm considering selling all this gear, just using the Oppo for disks letting the XMC-1 do all the decoding. DSDs decode very well, sound amazing. I have loved the USP-1 especially and now have no phono preamp, but what do you all think about this radically reduced signal path idea? Any reason to keep the ERC-1, or the others? I found it difficult to understand how the various trigger option are "and'd" or "or'd" together. Trying to trigger my XPA-5 which handles the center and surround channels. I couldn't get a trigger to work based on speaker use exclusively without having the "main power" also selected. But that seems to trigger it whenever main power is on regardless of speaker use. Not a big deal, but the final manual needs to be a bit more specific as to how these selections interact. Keith? Also got an audio glitch (sub-second noise) via the Oppo and XMC-1 at the end of a DSD CD after the last cut. Seems like the stream wasn't shut down gracefully. Haven't tried to reproduce this yet. Jim when I got my ERC-1 a couple of years ago I was curious about whether I should keep it or return it during the 30 day trial period. As a result, I compared several dozen CDs being played on the ERC-1 and on an Oppo 93. I used my Radio Shack meter to ensure both players were at the same sound level and I found the ERC-1 had a much better sound stage and had a more accurate attack and decay of the music notes... very noticeable on piano music. At this point I decided to a/b identical copies of the same CDs, one in the ERC-1 and the other in the Oppo 93, with each player started at the same time and at the same volume level and would switch back and forth between the two players. Again I matched volume levels with my Radio Shack meter. I then enlisted my brother and wife to see if they could notice any difference between the two players and to identify which unit they preferred. We all agreed that the ERC-1 sounded more "life-like", more accurate, and had better sound staging. Since then, I have upgraded to the ERC-2 and the Oppo 103 and have found the Emotiva ERC-2 continued its dominance over the Oppo Universal Disc Players. I spent a few hours a/b testing the ERC-2 against the Oppo 103 and found the Emotiva players continued to hold an advantage in sound staging and life-like attack and decay of the music, very noticeable on piano and drums. As a result, I play almost all of my music on the Emotiva CD players. I use my Oppo to play SACD and Blu Ray discs. I wish the Oppo players did out-perform the Emotiva ERC CD Players on playback of CD music as it would save me hundreds of dollars not having to buy the better performing Emotiva CD Players. However, most of my music listening is via CDs and I love listening to music so I happily spend the money on the ERC Players to provide the most life-like reproductions of my favorite music. I have the ERC-1 in my bedroom system and the ERC-2 in my main system. By this time next week I will be playing the ERC-2 through my new XMC-1. My XMC-1 shipped this past Friday so I expect it will be delivered on Tuesday afternoon. So now you'll have to compare the Oppo and ERC using the XMC DACs and see if you can still hear a difference, or the ERC via analog vs. the ERC via AES/EBU. The XMC-1 may now allow you to get rid of a player - as I think it will allow Jim to get rid of his older ERC-1.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2014 9:07:07 GMT -5
Since then, I have upgraded to the ERC-2 and the Oppo 103 and have found the Emotiva ERC-2 continued its dominance over the Oppo Universal Disc Players. I spent a few hours a/b testing the ERC-2 against the Oppo 103 and found the Emotiva players continued to hold an advantage in sound staging and life-like attack and decay of the music, very noticeable on piano and drums. As a result, I play almost all of my music on the Emotiva CD players. I use my Oppo to play SACD and Blu Ray discs. This is with analog out from the ERC-2 (and the Oppo 103), i.e. you are comparing the ERC-2 DAC to the Oppo 103 DAC, right?
If so, when you get your XMC-1, I would be very interested in your impression of the XMC-1 DAC (with the ERC-2 connected via SPDIF) vs. the ERC-2 DAC (ERC-2 connected via analog to the XMC-1).
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geebo
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"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,188
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Post by geebo on Jul 28, 2014 9:27:13 GMT -5
OK. Received mine yesterday. Set speaker distances (which is to the inch BTW) and levels via my trusty old analog Radio Shack meter. Left my USP-1, ERC-1, UMC-1, XDA-1, Paradigm sub controller (phase, LPF, Level) out of the system. Sounds so good already that I'm considering selling all this gear, just using the Oppo for disks letting the XMC-1 do all the decoding. DSDs decode very well, sound amazing. I have loved the USP-1 especially and now have no phono preamp, but what do you all think about this radically reduced signal path idea? Any reason to keep the ERC-1, or the others? I found it difficult to understand how the various trigger option are "and'd" or "or'd" together. Trying to trigger my XPA-5 which handles the center and surround channels. I couldn't get a trigger to work based on speaker use exclusively without having the "main power" also selected. But that seems to trigger it whenever main power is on regardless of speaker use. Not a big deal, but the final manual needs to be a bit more specific as to how these selections interact. Keith? Also got an audio glitch (sub-second noise) via the Oppo and XMC-1 at the end of a DSD CD after the last cut. Seems like the stream wasn't shut down gracefully. Haven't tried to reproduce this yet. Jim when I got my ERC-1 a couple of years ago I was curious about whether I should keep it or return it during the 30 day trial period. As a result, I compared several dozen CDs being played on the ERC-1 and on an Oppo 93. I used my Radio Shack meter to ensure both players were at the same sound level and I found the ERC-1 had a much better sound stage and had a more accurate attack and decay of the music notes... very noticeable on piano music. At this point I decided to a/b identical copies of the same CDs, one in the ERC-1 and the other in the Oppo 93, with each player started at the same time and at the same volume level and would switch back and forth between the two players. Again I matched volume levels with my Radio Shack meter. I then enlisted my brother and wife to see if they could notice any difference between the two players and to identify which unit they preferred. We all agreed that the ERC-1 sounded more "life-like", more accurate, and had better sound staging. Since then, I have upgraded to the ERC-2 and the Oppo 103 and have found the Emotiva ERC-2 continued its dominance over the Oppo Universal Disc Players. I spent a few hours a/b testing the ERC-2 against the Oppo 103 and found the Emotiva players continued to hold an advantage in sound staging and life-like attack and decay of the music, very noticeable on piano and drums. As a result, I play almost all of my music on the Emotiva CD players. I use my Oppo to play SACD and Blu Ray discs. I wish the Oppo players did out-perform the Emotiva ERC CD Players on playback of CD music as it would save me hundreds of dollars not having to buy the better performing Emotiva CD Players. However, most of my music listening is via CDs and I love listening to music so I happily spend the money on the ERC Players to provide the most life-like reproductions of my favorite music. I have the ERC-1 in my bedroom system and the ERC-2 in my main system. By this time next week I will be playing the ERC-2 through my new XMC-1. My XMC-1 shipped this past Friday so I expect it will be delivered on Tuesday afternoon. Ronny, When you get the XMC, try connecting the Oppo via digital and let the XMC's DAC do the conversion to analog. Then compare the ERC using it's DAC as well as the XMC DAC. It would be interesting to hear what you think.
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Post by audioguy123 on Jul 28, 2014 16:26:55 GMT -5
Using a RS SPL meter in an attempt to set equal volumes for the two players is not really going to be adequate. While maybe better than nothing, you can't easily get enough resolution to insure they are identical. One db over the entire frequency range is very easy to hear as is less than a db in some cases.
If you use something like OmniMic or REW and play a disc with frequency sweeps and plot them from the two players, then you can get them close to identical.
This is not to suggest that your conclusion is not accurate, but rather that the method by which you reached it has some potential holes in it.
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Post by jimbailey on Jul 29, 2014 21:43:38 GMT -5
Jim when I got my ERC-1 a couple of years ago I was curious about whether I should keep it or return it during the 30 day trial period. As a result, I compared several dozen CDs being played on the ERC-1 and on an Oppo 93. I used my Radio Shack meter to ensure both players were at the same sound level and I found the ERC-1 had a much better sound stage and had a more accurate attack and decay of the music notes... very noticeable on piano music. At this point I decided to a/b identical copies of the same CDs, one in the ERC-1 and the other in the Oppo 93, with each player started at the same time and at the same volume level and would switch back and forth between the two players. Again I matched volume levels with my Radio Shack meter. I then enlisted my brother and wife to see if they could notice any difference between the two players and to identify which unit they preferred. We all agreed that the ERC-1 sounded more "life-like", more accurate, and had better sound staging. Since then, I have upgraded to the ERC-2 and the Oppo 103 and have found the Emotiva ERC-2 continued its dominance over the Oppo Universal Disc Players. I spent a few hours a/b testing the ERC-2 against the Oppo 103 and found the Emotiva players continued to hold an advantage in sound staging and life-like attack and decay of the music, very noticeable on piano and drums. As a result, I play almost all of my music on the Emotiva CD players. I use my Oppo to play SACD and Blu Ray discs. I wish the Oppo players did out-perform the Emotiva ERC CD Players on playback of CD music as it would save me hundreds of dollars not having to buy the better performing Emotiva CD Players. However, most of my music listening is via CDs and I love listening to music so I happily spend the money on the ERC Players to provide the most life-like reproductions of my favorite music. I have the ERC-1 in my bedroom system and the ERC-2 in my main system. By this time next week I will be playing the ERC-2 through my new XMC-1. My XMC-1 shipped this past Friday so I expect it will be delivered on Tuesday afternoon. Hey Ronnie, thanks for the response, but I expect to use the XMC-1 for all audio processing, just getting the digital stream from the player. Do you really think there's an audible difference between the transports? If so, it could be due to clocking error or mechanical stability differences, I suppose, but I can't hear any differences. I assume you were testing the analog outputs?
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Post by jking on Jul 29, 2014 22:34:59 GMT -5
Worked a bit more with it today... 1) There is definitely a problem with either the OPPO BD-93 or the XMC-1 with DSD decoding. If I set up the OPPO to pass the DSD stream so that the XMC-1 can decode it, all is fine until the end of the disk. When the OPPO stops, there is a brief audio noise burst (glitch,) and the XMC-1 switches modes back to the default for the device. When I let the OPPO decode the DSD (converting it to PCM,) all is well and the XMC-1 remains in PCM mode when the OPPO stops. Seems like the OPPO may not be terminating the DSD stream gracefully? Or a handshake problem? 2) Also, when the XMC-1 is decoding the DSD stream, the zone-2 outputs output only the left channel. This would seem to be a problem with the XMC-1. The Record outputs are a good stereo mix down. Both these tests were with a CD containing a 5.1 DSD track, and the XMC-1 was in DSD Direct mode. When the OPPO converts the stream to PCM, the zone-2 outputs are fine. I get the same kind of noise on my Tivo, when the movie is over it will glitch a few times like it is trying to find a new stream to decode? Only seems to do it if I let it run all the way till it stops on it's own. IF I hit stop and go to something else it is quite like it should be.
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