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Post by dally on Aug 26, 2014 20:05:55 GMT -5
If the OP isn't going to stick around, this thread should be deleted. Well, his last post was about 9hrs ago, I think we could give him a little more time to respond?  |
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bootman
Emo VIPs 
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
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Post by bootman on Aug 26, 2014 20:10:14 GMT -5
If the OP isn't going to stick around, this thread should be deleted. Well, his last post was about 9hrs ago, I think we could give him a little more time to respond? He can't post under that name. The profile is deleted. (try to click on it) Therefore so should this thread if they do not want to stick around. Should make it that new members need to post a few times before creating new threads. |
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Post by dally on Aug 26, 2014 20:19:29 GMT -5
]He can't post under that name.
The profile is deleted. (try to click on it)
Therefore so should this thread if they do not want to stick around.
Should make it that new members need to post a few times before creating new threads.[/quote]
You must have missed his last post. I Was able to click on his profile. I think he originally posted as a guest and created an account after.
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Post by sme on Aug 27, 2014 0:32:28 GMT -5
If the OP is still around, he should know that having the speakers way out in the room is very bad for bass response. Not only do the speakers lack the reinforcement they would get with one or more walls close by, but also the reflections from the distant walls can interfere with the direct sound to create erratic and diminished response over a wide range of bass frequencies. Even the best woofers with lots of amp power behind them cannot adequately overcome this limitation.
If the speakers cannot be placed closer to a wall, is there room along a wall or in a corner for a subwoofer? Also, it would help to see a drawing of the space showing the speakers placements and listening area and including dimensions.
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Post by mikeemotivafirst on Aug 27, 2014 12:34:01 GMT -5
Hey guys - still here.
So I'm debating whether I "need" an XPA 3/5/2 amp or if the UPA200 would be sufficient. I got a chance to borrow a friend's UPA200, busted out my Radio Shack db meter yesterday and turned up the volume. The loudest I wanted to listen to before getting uncomfortable, at my sitting location, was ~90-95db with occasional peaks at 97db.
I know there are calculators out there to help identify the wattage needed, but in real life, at 11 feet away, the Triton's and the UPA200 did fine. Question is, what am I missing? With a 200 watt amp or 300 on the XPA 2, would there be a considerable sound quality enhancement if my volume levels never rose above 97db peak? Would the XPA amps give some more bottom end to speakers? (i'm still a bit disappointed with the bass response even though everywhere I read positive feedback on the bass of those towers!
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Post by mikeemotivafirst on Aug 27, 2014 12:39:45 GMT -5
And yes, I am now an official member of the forum. Took a couple days to get approved by the powers at be.
SME, you might be right, but the only room I have for proper set up gets torn up by my 2 year old. Perhaps I should think about full range speakers with built in subs (aka Triton Two's?)
I'll upload a photo once my wife gets around to sending one to me.
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Post by garbulky on Aug 27, 2014 12:52:29 GMT -5
Hey guys - still here. So I'm debating whether I "need" an XPA 3/5/2 amp or if the UPA200 would be sufficient. I got a chance to borrow a friend's UPA200, busted out my Radio Shack db meter yesterday and turned up the volume. The loudest I wanted to listen to before getting uncomfortable, at my sitting location, was ~90-95db with occasional peaks at 97db. I know there are calculators out there to help identify the wattage needed, but in real life, at 11 feet away, the Triton's and the UPA200 did fine. Question is, what am I missing? With a 200 watt amp or 300 on the XPA 2, would there be a considerable sound quality enhancement if my volume levels never rose above 97db peak? Would the XPA amps give some more bottom end to speakers? (i'm still a bit disappointed with the bass response even though everywhere I read positive feedback on the bass of those towers! The XPA-2 provides a bit more bass....but just a bit. Not much. Like I mentioned, you might have to look elsewhere to see what is causing the bass suckout. You'll have to experiment with speaker placement, acoustic panels and bass traps. You may be better served with a UPA-200 coupled to a nice subwoofer. The PSA XV15 which I've personally heard should provide you more reasonably good quality bass than you'll want and that's my reccomendation. I've also found out that a dedicated stereo pre-amp does help the dynamics especially with a larger power amp like the XPA-2. More slam etc. Strange but true. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Aug 27, 2014 13:15:55 GMT -5
Hey guys - still here. So I'm debating whether I "need" an XPA 3/5/2 amp or if the UPA200 would be sufficient. I got a chance to borrow a friend's UPA200, busted out my Radio Shack db meter yesterday and turned up the volume. The loudest I wanted to listen to before getting uncomfortable, at my sitting location, was ~90-95db with occasional peaks at 97db. I know there are calculators out there to help identify the wattage needed, but in real life, at 11 feet away, the Triton's and the UPA200 did fine. Question is, what am I missing? With a 200 watt amp or 300 on the XPA 2, would there be a considerable sound quality enhancement if my volume levels never rose above 97db peak? Would the XPA amps give some more bottom end to speakers? (i'm still a bit disappointed with the bass response even though everywhere I read positive feedback on the bass of those towers! The XPA-2 provides a bit more bass....but just a bit. Not much. Like I mentioned, you might have to look elsewhere to see what is causing the bass suckout. You'll have to experiment with speaker placement, acoustic panels and bass traps. You may be better served with a UPA-200 coupled to a nice subwoofer. The PSA XV15 which I've personally heard should provide you more reasonably good quality bass than you'll want and that's my reccomendation. I've also found out that a dedicated stereo pre-amp does help the dynamics especially with a larger power amp like the XPA-2. More slam etc. Strange but true. IMHO, I run my xpa-3 to my Tekton enzo's in reference stereo and find no need for a sub, what is the low freq rating for the Tritons? |
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Post by stevenmichael on Aug 27, 2014 13:18:47 GMT -5
I agree with a couple of the guys here in getting a pair of monoblocks... it doesn't have to be XPA-1s though. You can grab a couple XPA-100s or even XPA-1Ls and get the benefit of separate amps at a budget price, IMO. The XPA-2 and XPA-3 are fantastic amps though! Then, run the rest of the channels off your AVR.
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Post by mikeemotivafirst on Aug 27, 2014 13:42:20 GMT -5
According the spec the 7's go down to 29hz. Anyone know how to post a photo? Trying to get a photo of my set up but can't seem to figure out how...
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Post by mikeemotivafirst on Aug 27, 2014 13:46:46 GMT -5
Ok figured it out! Here's my room - 8 feet ceiling by 20 feet across. Wall on the right side of the photo, left side is an opening into the hallway/stairway. Shot is from the kitchen, from back to front wall i think it's 35 or so feet. Speakers are about 1.5 feet from the wall, 11 feet apart with a triangle to the sitting position. Any recommendations would be appreciated! There is a small sub right next to the TV stand on the right side (def tech supercube). Please forgive the messy room  .  |
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Post by creimes on Aug 27, 2014 14:14:13 GMT -5
Larger rooms are of course more difficult to get good responsive bass to come alive, mine room is about 12 x 20 with 7' ceilings and my RX6 Towers can absolutely rock and everyone comments on how much bass they produce for the small size of the speaker, even more so since I have it fully treated the room with acoustic panels(no bass traps). Placement can be difficult in rooms that don't allow proper placement due to WAF or multiple use rooms, the UPA-200 and a bigger sub with proper placement could help, I also strongly recommend acoustic panels but if the wife is not so sellable it may be hard to do  Chad |
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Post by garbulky on Aug 27, 2014 14:21:38 GMT -5
Ok figured it out! Here's my room - 8 feet ceiling by 20 feet across. Wall on the right side of the photo, left side is an opening into the hallway/stairway. Shot is from the kitchen, from back to front wall i think it's 35 or so feet. Speakers are about 1.5 feet from the wall, 11 feet apart with a triangle to the sitting position. Any recommendations would be appreciated! There is a small sub right next to the TV stand on the right side (def tech supercube). Please forgive the messy room . View AttachmentThis is very helpful. Now the most obvious thing that sticks out to me is that you have wooden/tile floors. These can cause some issues with the tightness of the bass and sound in general due to echos. Usually the sound may lack some warmth or sound a little hollow. You may have some trouble getting a room pressurizing effect. I call it coupling to the room. A carpet or even an area rug in between the speakers and you can help clear the sound up a little. I know it does for me. Also.... Your speakers may be spaced too far apart. Try bringing them closer together. Your left speaker appears to be having some of its sound obstructed by the side couch. Try to get a clear path to you. I think room treatments (don't ignore bass traps) will help your situation. Tame those echos down. In your area, you're going to need more than the size subwoofer you have by the tv to get some nice authority to the bass. You may want to try either pulling the speakers forward into the room to see if it makes a difference. But I suspect pushing them just a little back may help the bass. Ideally you want your speakers forward into the room. But sometimes to reinforce bass people push them back. Your subs are side projecting so it may be a bit different. Also experiment with toe in. Like a whole lot, a few inches this way that. Sometimes moving your chair forward or back can also change how the bass sounds to you. |
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Post by mikeemotivafirst on Aug 27, 2014 14:26:16 GMT -5
Great ideas garbulky! Unfortunately acoustic panels are out of the question but I'll try to play with speaker placement, moving things around, and a rug. I never knew that the floor would make a big impact to the bass.
Regarding the sub, it was a WAF limiting factor, though I am considering the Triton two's with the built in subs.
Anyone else with suggestions?
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Post by jackpine on Aug 27, 2014 14:32:38 GMT -5
A little closer together and put the sub in the corner.
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Post by garbulky on Aug 27, 2014 14:38:37 GMT -5
Great ideas garbulky! Unfortunately acoustic panels are out of the question but I'll try to play with speaker placement, moving things around, and a rug. I never knew that the floor would make a big impact to the bass. Regarding the sub, it was a WAF limiting factor, though I am considering the Triton two's with the built in subs. Anyone else with suggestions? Ahh WAF. I am lucky that WAF for me has so far been uneventful. But there are certain things she is particular about. I think there is no getting around a sub or room panels. Even ONE panel behind the couch will help. WAF may limiting it but it's what you need to fix things. I doubt the built in sub will make a massive difference. You need a dedicated unit imo. Your room has a large opening into another area which increases the amount of air the sub needs to move. The PSA subs are pretty incredible but they are LARGE and dominating. SVS makes cylinder subs that are more attractive and compact. The room panels for what it's worth come in different colors. And also come as artwork so it looks like a painting.     So instead of asking your wife can I put up acoustic panels, ask her, can I put up some paintings/pictures? Now the art panels come at a higher price. But it's the price of WAF Here's the regular: www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24-x-48-x-2--1001.htmlHere's the Art panels (you get to choose exactly what you want on it): GIK is more expensive than ats. www.gikacoustics.com/product/gik-artpanel-acoustic-panels/www.atsacoustics.com/art-acoustic-panels.html |
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Post by mikeemotivafirst on Aug 27, 2014 15:07:46 GMT -5
Oh that's pretty cool! I'll look into it the art work. Now if they'll let me print a photo of my son I'm sure that'll seal the deal!
Regarding behind the couch - I have no wall there, just opens into my kitchen (which I'm sure doesn't help things at all!)
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Post by sme on Aug 28, 2014 2:23:03 GMT -5
Great ideas garbulky! Unfortunately acoustic panels are out of the question but I'll try to play with speaker placement, moving things around, and a rug. I never knew that the floor would make a big impact to the bass. Regarding the sub, it was a WAF limiting factor, though I am considering the Triton two's with the built in subs. Anyone else with suggestions? Thanks for the picture. I completely misunderstood your layout, in particular the fact that the speakers are fairly close to at least one long wall. Please disregard my previous advice. It's tough to guess what your bass response is and why without seeing a drawing of the room including all adjoining open spaces. Even then, with your space being quite irregular, it may be difficult to ascertain what's going on. The best way to know what's going on with the bass in your room is to do measurements. The thing about bass is that placement of the subs (and the listeners) is the most important factor. The performance of even a super-powered sub can be held back considerably by placement problems. If placement problems are the primary reason for the weak bass in your case, then increasing the bass output by upgrading the amp, sub, or speakers will not help very much. On the other hand, there are other reasons to consider a better amp. Whether or not you want a bigger amp depends as much on what level you listen to as what kind of music you listen to. If you listen to mostly popular music and other music with a lot of compression, then you likely don't need to upgrade, except maybe to get more/better bass. However, if you listen to music with more dynamic range, like most classical and many jazz recordings, you will likely find that a powerful amp can take you a lot farther. If you look around, you can find music in other genres such as rock with good dynamic range. Also, movies typically have lots of dynamics, which will benefit from a more powerful amp. By the way, I disagree that putting rugs on the floor will do anything for bass response. The bass will just go right through them. Rugs will absorb some high frequency sound, which may or may not be a good thing. It can't hurt to try. One thing that a hardwood floor can do is resonate and transmit vibration. This causes the floor to emit those frequencies as well. The floor can also ring, that is, it can keep vibrating and producing sound after the sound in the program is no longer playing. That said, these are IMO relatively minor issues and are not likely to impact how strong the bass is. Is your sub running by chance? If so, have you tried turning it off, or perhaps running it with the phase inverted? It's possible your sub is fighting your speakers instead of playing with them. |
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Post by mikeemotivafirst on Aug 28, 2014 14:09:03 GMT -5
Thanks sme for the advice. If I run my sub, the bottom end fills out quite nicely (though not as tight and punchy as I'd like), but that could be the factor of the small def tech sub. What I really wanted was to run my speakers at full signal and not have to use the sub for music, only for HT. I think a bigger amp would work better for me as I listen to a lot of classical and jazz. Now I have a tough job of deciding on the XPA 5 or 3 or 2 |
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Post by mikeemotivafirst on Aug 28, 2014 14:18:14 GMT -5
Hey guys - another newbie question.
I just plugged my DAC straight into the amp, just to see what it would sound like instead of going through the Yamaha AVR to see if the AVR was playing a factor in the sound. Surprinsgly, I did notice a difference - it was a cleaner, straight forward sound I heard bypassing the AVR, with a bit more bass. Is this usual? I'm now thinking the preamp on the Yamaha is causing some of my issues!
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