klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 5, 2014 9:38:27 GMT -5
On 10/4, I travel to Germany for a week. If history repeats itself, every time I go to Germany and something major is pending from Emotiva, it happens just as I leave. So, it should be released then. Alright, I am here now. Let the upgrades begin! Mark
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Post by tchaik on Oct 5, 2014 10:59:06 GMT -5
On September 12th Kiethl said Dirac was basically done, could be 5 minuets or 5 days, with needed days for testing. Well if it were 5 minuets it would depend on the tempo - that could account for any delays. Though minuets are usually fairly spritely. Too bad it wasn't 5 polkas 'cause then it would have been ready really quick! also depends on if the minuets are symetrical or asymetrical, closed or open binary, rounded or not. does the A section modulate to the dominant or the relative major? that could certainly impact the release of dirac........ tchaik..........
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Post by landshark on Oct 17, 2014 21:21:23 GMT -5
As a note to the tech writers at Emotiva: Given that DIRAC needs to communicate with an outside server, if it isn't using standard HTTP or HTTPS, then please document the firewall ports that need opened. I can discover them via traffic logs, but it's nicer to be told beforehand The dirac live RCS user manual states that only port 80 (HTTP) is required, but I do not know if the final implementation by Emotiva will follow this same rule.
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edrummereasye
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Post by edrummereasye on Oct 18, 2014 3:16:45 GMT -5
As a note to the tech writers at Emotiva: Given that DIRAC needs to communicate with an outside server, if it isn't using standard HTTP or HTTPS, then please document the firewall ports that need opened. I can discover them via traffic logs, but it's nicer to be told beforehand The dirac live RCS user manual states that only port 80 (HTTP) is required, but I do not know if the final implementation by Emotiva will follow this same rule. So what you're saying is, "don't make landshark do wireshark"? =D <crickets> <tap, tap> is this thing _on_? Tough crowd... :-\
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Post by sct on Oct 18, 2014 9:18:11 GMT -5
I am really having a hard time believing that communication issues are causing the delay. How friggin' hard could it be to push some data up to Dirac's servers and then receive a response? I'm thinking they screwed the pooch somewhere else and just won't cop to it. And this isn't the first time they've done that...
SCT
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Post by deewan on Oct 18, 2014 9:47:35 GMT -5
I am really having a hard time believing that communication issues are causing the delay. How friggin' hard could it be to push some data up to Dirac's servers and then receive a response? I'm thinking they screwed the pooch somewhere else and just won't cop to it. And this isn't the first time they've done that... SCT Working in an industry where we share, transfer, move, delete customer data, I can tell you it is fairly difficult to make sure everything transfers and works properly. Factor in moving parts (aka personal firewalls, different ISP, different personal network setups) and it can be a complete mess. If you don't believe me, call someplace like godaddy and ask for anyone on their help desk to explain the mind fry of trying to troubleshoot a network connect problem since not everyone has the same setup.
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Post by aviolentgrace on Oct 18, 2014 10:01:53 GMT -5
I'm A little confused on some of the post I've seen. When Dirac does come out those with the XMC-1 will get the updated firmware and a MIC? I see some post say that a MIC comes with the $100 upgrade. You will get the base Dirac and a mic included in the price of the XMC-1, for $99 more you get the upgrade. "The upgrade"? What upgrade is that? Too many hits on 'upgrade' around here. The full power of Dirac was touted for the better part of a year as part of the XMC's base cost. Now it sounds like like there's some bait-and-switch going on where we will get "Dirac Lite" provided for free as a teaser for the "full version" upgrade. If that's the case it's like promising people "the full power of Photoshop, the world's best photo editing application" with a PC and then giving them "Photoshop Elements" with a coupon for an upgrade to the full version. Please say this isn't so. I've come to expect better things from Emotiva.
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twism
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Post by twism on Oct 18, 2014 10:25:57 GMT -5
I am really having a hard time believing that communication issues are causing the delay. How friggin' hard could it be to push some data up to Dirac's servers and then receive a response? I'm thinking they screwed the pooch somewhere else and just won't cop to it. And this isn't the first time they've done that... SCT Working in an industry where we share, transfer, move, delete customer data, I can tell you it is fairly difficult to make sure everything transfers and works properly. Factor in moving parts (aka personal firewalls, different ISP, different personal network setups) and it can be a complete mess. If you don't believe me, call someplace like godaddy and ask for anyone on their help desk to explain the mind fry of trying to troubleshoot a network connect problem since not everyone has the same setup. Still, they have been using that as a reason for a very long time. It seems like it has been many months of communication issues. In my previous life as a network engineer I'd be out of a job if I couldn't resolve communication issues. Not saying it's easy but if this is what's holding it up and you have promised time frames then I think you would be on top of it and getting it resolved. Again all we can is speculate because all we get is its coming soon.
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twism
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Post by twism on Oct 18, 2014 10:26:52 GMT -5
You will get the base Dirac and a mic included in the price of the XMC-1, for $99 more you get the upgrade. "The upgrade"? What upgrade is that? Too many hits on 'upgrade' around here. The full power of Dirac was touted for the better part of a year as part of the XMC's base cost. Now it sounds like like there's some bait-and-switch going on where we will get "Dirac Lite" provided for free as a teaser for the "full version" upgrade. If that's the case it's like promising people "the full power of Photoshop, the world's best photo editing application" with a PC and then giving them "Photoshop Elements" with a coupon for an upgrade to the full version. Please say this isn't so. I've come to expect better things from Emotiva. I belive it's the ability to have more than one curve.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Oct 18, 2014 10:32:27 GMT -5
You will get the base Dirac and a mic included in the price of the XMC-1, for $99 more you get the upgrade. "The upgrade"? What upgrade is that? Too many hits on 'upgrade' around here. The full power of Dirac was touted for the better part of a year as part of the XMC's base cost. Now it sounds like like there's some bait-and-switch going on where we will get "Dirac Lite" provided for free as a teaser for the "full version" upgrade. If that's the case it's like promising people "the full power of Photoshop, the world's best photo editing application" with a PC and then giving them "Photoshop Elements" with a coupon for an upgrade to the full version. Please say this isn't so. I've come to expect better things from Emotiva. I don't know that they ever said the full version of Dirac would be included. I may be wrong but I can't seem to remember ever hearing that claim. It fact it was a question for a long time just how much functionality would be included. That was finally answered and then we were informed about the $99 upgrade to the full version which is nothing short of a bargain. And this much was known before the first XMC was ever sold.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Oct 18, 2014 10:33:56 GMT -5
"The upgrade"? What upgrade is that? Too many hits on 'upgrade' around here. The full power of Dirac was touted for the better part of a year as part of the XMC's base cost. Now it sounds like like there's some bait-and-switch going on where we will get "Dirac Lite" provided for free as a teaser for the "full version" upgrade. If that's the case it's like promising people "the full power of Photoshop, the world's best photo editing application" with a PC and then giving them "Photoshop Elements" with a coupon for an upgrade to the full version. Please say this isn't so. I've come to expect better things from Emotiva. I belive it's the ability to have more than one curve. Correct. And user adjustable too.
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Post by aviolentgrace on Oct 18, 2014 10:51:26 GMT -5
The full power of Dirac was touted for the better part of a year as part of the XMC's base cost. Now it sounds like like there's some bait-and-switch going on ... Please say this isn't so. I've come to expect better things from Emotiva. I don't know that they ever said the full version of Dirac would be included. I may be wrong but I can't seem to remember ever hearing that claim. It fact it was a question for a long time just how much functionality would be included. That was finally answered and then we were informed about the $99 upgrade to the full version which is nothing short of a bargain. And this much was known before the first XMC was ever sold. From an email Emo sent out on January 30, 2014: "Full-scale, professional level" certainly doesn't sound like a functionality-reduced promise to me.
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Post by sct on Oct 18, 2014 10:56:53 GMT -5
Twism wrote: "Still, they have been using that as a reason for a very long time. It seems like it has been many months of communication issues. In my previous life as a network engineer I'd be out of a job if I couldn't resolve communication issues. Not saying it's easy but if this is what's holding it up and you have promised time frames then I think you would be on top of it and getting it resolved. "
Indeed. I've been a network engineer/programmer for over 30 years, and have worked on some of the biggest, baddest systems in the US (White House, Dept. of Energy, NASA, etc.) And it damn sure doesn't take the months and months and months they claim to solve the networking issues that are holding up the release. No, something else is afoot here and Emotiva are dissembling just as fast as they can to keep everyone mollified. The Emo cognoscenti will give them a pass no matter how egregious the infraction, they always do. But those of us with clearer heads know that something ain't quite right...
SCT
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Oct 18, 2014 11:01:45 GMT -5
I don't know that they ever said the full version of Dirac would be included. I may be wrong but I can't seem to remember ever hearing that claim. It fact it was a question for a long time just how much functionality would be included. That was finally answered and then we were informed about the $99 upgrade to the full version which is nothing short of a bargain. And this much was known before the first XMC was ever sold. From an email Emo sent out on January 30, 2014: "Full-scale, professional level" certainly doesn't sound like a functionality-reduced promise to me. Well, if that means "full version of Dirac" why was it a question right on these forums as to how much of Dirac's functionality would be included in the XMC?
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Oct 18, 2014 11:03:45 GMT -5
Twism wrote: "Still, they have been using that as a reason for a very long time. It seems like it has been many months of communication issues. In my previous life as a network engineer I'd be out of a job if I couldn't resolve communication issues. Not saying it's easy but if this is what's holding it up and you have promised time frames then I think you would be on top of it and getting it resolved. " Indeed. I've been a network engineer/programmer for over 30 years, and have worked on some of the biggest, baddest systems in the US (White House, Dept. of Energy, NASA, etc.) And it damn sure doesn't take the months and months and months they claim to solve the networking issues that are holding up the release. No, something else is afoot here and Emotiva are dissembling just as fast as they can to keep everyone mollified. The Emo cognoscenti will give them a pass no matter how egregious the infraction, they always do. But those of us with clearer heads know that something ain't quite right... SCT Did you have anything to do with the health care web site?
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Post by aviolentgrace on Oct 18, 2014 11:48:36 GMT -5
From an email Emo sent out on January 30, 2014: "Full-scale, professional level" certainly doesn't sound like a functionality-reduced promise to me. Well, if that means "full version of Dirac" why was it a question right on these forums as to how much of Dirac's functionality would be included in the XMC? It doesn't really matter what is said on these forums. What matters is what Emotiva communicates broadly and directly. The next email I got from Emotiva about Dirac was in August, telling me my pre-order was ready. It made these comments about Dirac: (emphasis mine) Also, there's emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/xmc-1:Overview:Features:Companies may discuss or even hash out their plans on forums ahead of time, but at the end of the day it's their official, direct-to-consumer statements that count. Consider the many Emo customers who don't know or care that these forums exist, yet received the same emails about "fully implemented" "full-scale, professional level" Dirac. They were led to believe something about what their money would be purchasing. If you offer people an upgrade before the baseline functionality is even available, you land right back at my Photoshop analogy: promising to include "full power of Photoshop" and instead delivering Photoshop Elements w/ an upgrade coupon. The XMC-1 is a fabulous product. I'm really enjoying mine, and I'm looking forward to whatever version of Dirac they include -- but I can't help feeling that if I'm delivered a product that has a flyer that says "Here's a feature-limited edition of the Dirac Live software we promised. If you want the full version, get your Visa card and call this number..." Emotiva will be eroding the base of good faith, trust, and high esteem customers have placed in them over the very long wait for this fabulous device. On the other hand, if they were to truly include "full" Dirac Live for all XMC-1s (at no additional cost), that problem goes away because "the promise" is well and truly fulfilled.
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geebo
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Post by geebo on Oct 18, 2014 12:03:44 GMT -5
Well, if that means "full version of Dirac" why was it a question right on these forums as to how much of Dirac's functionality would be included in the XMC? It doesn't really matter what is said on these forums. What matters is what Emotiva communicates broadly and directly. The next email I got from Emotiva about Dirac was in August, telling me my pre-order was ready. It made these comments about Dirac: (emphasis mine) Also, there's emotiva.com/products/pres-and-pros/xmc-1:Overview:Features:Companies may discuss or even hash out their plans on forums ahead of time, but at the end of the day it's their official, direct-to-consumer statements that count. Consider the many Emo customers who don't know or care that these forums exist, yet received the same emails about "fully implemented" "full-scale, professional level" Dirac. They were led to believe something about what their money would be purchasing. If you offer people an upgrade before the baseline functionality is even available, you land right back at my Photoshop analogy: promising to include "full power of Photoshop" and instead delivering Photoshop Elements w/ an upgrade coupon. The XMC-1 is a fabulous product. I'm really enjoying mine, and I'm looking forward to whatever version of Dirac they include -- but I can't help feeling that if I'm delivered a product that has a flyer that says "Here's a feature-limited edition of the Dirac Live software we promised. If you want the full version, get your Visa card and call this number..." Emotiva will be eroding the base of good faith, trust, and high esteem customers have placed in them over the very long wait for this fabulous device. On the other hand, if they were to truly include "full" Dirac Live for all XMC-1s (at no additional cost), that problem goes away because "the promise" is well and truly fulfilled. So you took it to mean the Full Version would be included. I get that. Yet it was a question here so not everyone thought as you did, did they? And certainly that was common knowledge before you bought one. Here is a post from ansat that references what Dan said at Emofest September 2013 (my bolding and underlining) "Since this is new thread dedicated to XMC-1's version of Dirac, It might be good to start off with what we do know about it.
1. The version of Dirac will be based on the Dirac Live Room Correction Suite. The trial of the full Version can be found here - www.dirac.se/en/consumer-products/dirac-rcs.aspx
2. Dan stated that this exact version was not planned for the XMC-1 at Emofest and that we can expect a scaled down version that will still include a adjustable curve.
3. The rep from Dirac stated that it was in planning for the full version of Dirac Live to be compatible with the XMC and there *could* be upgrade pricing.
4. Dan's plan was to include something other then the standard puck mic with the XMC. Given the software for PC and the differences between sound cards. It is likely a USB mic would be used.
5. A computer is needed to transfer the filters to the XMC
6. You will not be able to apply further EQ on top of the Dirac filter. (at Emofest)
Also just for reference here is my test results of using the Dirac software. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/33047/thoughts-on-audyssey-multeq-dirac?page=1&scrollTo=566498
Tony"Link to above post: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/610298
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 18, 2014 12:38:09 GMT -5
You will get the base Dirac and a mic included in the price of the XMC-1, for $99 more you get the upgrade. "The upgrade"? What upgrade is that? Too many hits on 'upgrade' around here. The full power of Dirac was touted for the better part of a year as part of the XMC's base cost. Now it sounds like like there's some bait-and-switch going on where we will get "Dirac Lite" provided for free as a teaser for the "full version" upgrade. If that's the case it's like promising people "the full power of Photoshop, the world's best photo editing application" with a PC and then giving them "Photoshop Elements" with a coupon for an upgrade to the full version. Please say this isn't so. I've come to expect better things from Emotiva. I agree that the upgrade should be documented on the products page, the XMC-1 has been out long enough for this page to have all the pertinent information. The upgrade was announced here back in June and was also discussed at the road shows. To me you are still getting the full capability of Dirac Live, however the upgrade gives you more flexibility. I believe this was probably discussed and agreed upon during the negotiations for Dirac licensing, and it was a way Emotiva could get a reasonable price as well as allowing Dirac an opportunity to make a little more for hobbyists who want to tinker (but this is purely my speculation). Here's the original announcement from Keith: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/646637/thread
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Post by aviolentgrace on Oct 18, 2014 12:42:59 GMT -5
Those are interesting points and it's the first I've seen or heard of them, geebo (and AudioHTIT). Thank you! As you say, those announcements were made in September 2013 at Emofest, yet on January 30th (4 months later) the email that announced Dirac support directly to customers waiting for an XMC-1 didn't set an expectation for "Dirac Lite" or that there would be a pay-to-upgrade option... merely that the awesome power of Dirac Live would be fully integrated into the XMC-1, eschewing previous room correction schemes. Those who didn't go to Emofest had no context (myself included), and our expectations were dialed accordingly. No intervening communication was sent out regarding Dirac until the orders were ready, and even then there was no level-setting on functionality expectations -- just a continuation of the promise that "Dirac Live is coming!" I guess at this point it's just a matter of "Emotiva communicated well and truly with the Lounge but neglected to update the waiting list and the website"... an oversight I'm certainly willing to forgive (we're not saving babies here... it's just audio gear!) but what I'd really like (as I'm sure other customers would, too) is some form of mea culpa from Emotiva about this event and a promise in the future that they will make every effort to clarify any deviations from previous promises directly to customers *before* they make a purchase based on incomplete or inaccurate information. I think that's a reasonable request, don't you?
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Post by deewan on Oct 18, 2014 12:54:08 GMT -5
Indeed. I've been a network engineer/programmer for over 30 years, and have worked on some of the biggest, baddest systems in the US (White House, Dept. of Energy, NASA, etc.) And it damn sure doesn't take the months and months and months they claim to solve the networking issues that are holding up the release. No, something else is afoot here and Emotiva are dissembling just as fast as they can to keep everyone mollified. The Emo cognoscenti will give them a pass no matter how egregious the infraction, they always do. But those of us with clearer heads know that something ain't quite right... SCT Yea, if it's so easy for Emotiva to implement Dirac into their system and have that system communicate with Dirac servers while being compatible with everyones different network setup at home (not White House or NASA standards), then perhaps you could help out a few audio engineers with this quest. Just saying.
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