|
Post by vneal on Sept 16, 2014 20:24:12 GMT -5
I like CD , SACD and BluRay. With that said look around sales of all three are plummeting. The CD/DVD disc is dying a slow death. Streaming is the future. Non Audio/videophiles only stream
|
|
|
Post by Porscheguy on Sept 16, 2014 20:52:01 GMT -5
1) When I watch the Apple Festival concerts on my Apple TV, they are in 3/2 & LFE. This helps me realize that listening to music in surround sound is very realistic; I like it and see it as the way of the future. So SACD, with it high definition sound and surround channels ought to be the wave of the future. I've been considering buying the OPPO player and some SACD discs. But... I bought a 4 track phonograph record decoder, batamax vcr, and other stillborn technologies. Is SACD dead; I've read things on the internet and here that suggest it is?
2) How does the OPPO send SACD output to the XMC-1: HDMI and/or 7.1 RCA's?
3) If SACD is dead, are the 7.1 inputs on the XMC-1 obsolete?
4) If I were to buy a few SACDs, to blow my mind, what would they be:
- Pink Floyd's album The Dark Side of the Moon (1973)? - The Who's rock opera Tommy (1969)? - Something classical?
Sincerely /b
Was SACD ever alive? Nope. It's been a total commercial disappointment from what I've read, never coming even close to it's sales expectation. Same as 3D, a dizz-ass-ter..
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Sept 16, 2014 21:05:48 GMT -5
Without getting into a DSD vs PCM debate, my opinion is that SACD's didn't have the take up anticipated due to the DSD limitations. DSD has a major weakness, it can't be processed, meaning not by a sound engineer doing the production / mastering and again not by the listener's processor. So any music recorded using DSD that needs mixing, mastering and/or processing has to be converted to PCM for those tasks to take place.
So with say a DSD SACD on an equalised processor we have the steps analogue sound -----> DSD ------> PCM -----> DSD ------> PCM ------> analogue sound -----> ears
Whereas with PCM we have analogue sound -----> PCM -----> analogue sound -----> ears
It would seem to me that it could be argued that PCM is closer to analogue (ie; less steps) than DSD from recording to ears.
Cheers Gary
|
|
|
Post by jmilton on Sept 16, 2014 21:12:05 GMT -5
No. DSD is processed in analog, then back to DSD.
"A quick note correcting what I wrote yesterday about editing DSD. While it is true you cannot directly edit DSD, I reported that Cookie Marenco of Blue Coast Records recorded in DSD then converted to PCM, made her edits and then went back again to DSD. Not!
While this is what some DSD editing systems do, Blue Coast converts to analog, makes any adjustments required then back again to DSD. Duh. That’s a much better solution and an obvious one as well. I am sure thankful there’s plenty of people smarter than me." P McGowan
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Sept 16, 2014 21:36:51 GMT -5
No. DSD is processed in analog, then back to DSD. "A quick note correcting what I wrote yesterday about editing DSD. While it is true you cannot directly edit DSD, I reported that Cookie Marenco of Blue Coast Records recorded in DSD then converted to PCM, made her edits and then went back again to DSD. Not! While this is what some DSD editing systems do, Blue Coast converts to analog, makes any adjustments required then back again to DSD. Duh. That’s a much better solution and an obvious one as well. I am sure thankful there’s plenty of people smarter than me." P McGowan I understand that that is a possible path but it requires the initial analogue conversion to DSD then conversion back to analogue for processing the another conversion back to DSD again.
With the above example of a DSD SACD on an equalised processor we still have the steps; analogue sound -----> DSD -----> analogue (for processing) ------> DSD ------> PCM -----> analogue sound -----> ears
Cheers Gary
|
|
|
Post by The Mad Norseman on Sept 16, 2014 21:41:41 GMT -5
I like CD , SACD and BluRay. With that said look around sales of all three are plummeting. The CD/DVD disc is dying a slow death. Streaming is the future. Non Audio/videophiles only stream Probably so, but streaming sucks IMO...don't like another entity having possession, or control...I like the physical media that I can own and that I can control, or loan, or,...whatever.
|
|
|
Post by jmilton on Sept 17, 2014 7:17:07 GMT -5
But those steps don't degrade the original sample. The PCM format uses a series of frames, or snapshots, for the data. Each frame is a separate grouping of audio containing a left and right sample. In a CD we get samples of the music and each sample is taken 44,000 times per second, once for the left channel and again for the right channel (so the process happens twice as fast in order to get two 44K samples in the same time). Now, mentally take those two samples (left and right) and put them into a package. That’s the frame we are talking about in PCM. Each frame contains one left and one right sample along with some extra information that explains to the equipment what to expect. The DSD format, on the other hand, does not have any frames; instead it is a steady (direct) stream of bits with more or less density according the the music. So here’s the clever thing the designers of DoP (DSD over PCM) did. They simply took the DSD stream apart into discrete 16 bit groups; every 16 bit block was separated from the stream. They then combined a 16 bit right group together with a 16 bit left group, added the identifier information and dressed it up so computers and DACS would think it’s PCM. As far as any computers or USB streams are concerned, it is indistinguishable from PCM so it is passed onto the DAC via USB, S/PDIF or AES/EBU. To match the speed of single and double DSD, they use 176.4kHz ( not supported by the UMC-1 or 200) and 352.8kHz PCM rates respectively. Once it gets to the DAC, it is then converted back to its original stream by simply connecting all the bits back together. There’s no data manipulation, the bits are unscathed and, if your DAC can play DSD you’re good to go. If the DAC does not support DSD, you get silence...
|
|
|
Post by Priapulus on Sept 17, 2014 7:55:04 GMT -5
When I posed the question about SACD it wasn't just about High Definition; I was also interested in surround sound. Do formats like DVD-A, Bluray, etc, support surround; do they regularly provide it?
I think bluray video Concert disks in HD surround sound would have a great market.
Sincerely /b
|
|
|
Post by melm on Sept 17, 2014 8:09:46 GMT -5
Many of the Blu-ray and SACD discs are in surround formats and sound great (if they were recorded well).
I don't concern myself with the fate of these formats, and I embrace them all. I have CD's going back to the 80's that still sound great. My SACDs, Blu-ray discs and HD downloads should have an equally long life unless people stop producing the playback hardware.
Personally, I like owning my music, and, as is the case with CDs, being able to rip them and hear them in the car, or wherever I travel. I also take my downloads with me and listen on my laptop with headphones.
Mel
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Sept 17, 2014 8:27:59 GMT -5
When I posed the question about SACD it wasn't just about High Definition; I was also interested in surround sound. Do formats like DVD-A, Bluray, etc, support surround; do they regularly provide it?
I think bluray video Concert disks in HD surround sound would have a great market.
Sincerely /b Just to add to what melm said, yes, DVD-A does multi-channel. When SACD came out, there was the typical format war between 2 camps, SACD and DVD-A. They were both born, set out into the world, and died about the same time. Sound quality can be debated all day by who ever wants to, but in general terms they were about the same. Neither blew they other way from a format standpoint. I only prefer the SACD's because it is much easier to change which "layer" of recording you are listening to. It's typically done with a button on your player or remote; very simple. With DVD-A, you have to have a monitor (TV) and then chose from there, like selecting stuff on a regular DVD movie. Basically it's more of a pain. Again, if it can even survive itself (the physical format is in question regardless of quality), Blu-ray Audio will be the complete successor eventually, perhaps sooner rather than later.
|
|
|
Post by vneal on Sept 17, 2014 11:55:49 GMT -5
I like CD , SACD and BluRay. With that said look around sales of all three are plummeting. The CD/DVD disc is dying a slow death. Streaming is the future. Non Audio/videophiles only stream Probably so, but streaming sucks IMO...don't like another entity having possession, or control...I like the physical media that I can own and that I can control, or loan, or,...whatever. I did not say I like it but ask around. No one buys CDs anymore
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 12:11:33 GMT -5
Probably so, but streaming sucks IMO...don't like another entity having possession, or control...I like the physical media that I can own and that I can control, or loan, or,...whatever. I did not say I like it but ask around. No one buys CDs anymoreWell, I might be just a no one/nut but I just ordered 4 CD's from Amazon in the past two weeks and I plan to buy more!
|
|
novisnick
EmoPhile
CEO Secret Monoblock Society
Posts: 27,223
|
Post by novisnick on Sept 17, 2014 12:18:10 GMT -5
I did not say I like it but ask around. No one buys CDs anymoreWell, I might be just a no one/nut but I just ordered 4 CD's from Amazon in the past two weeks and I plan to buy more! You tell um nut! I purchase a CD a week on average and a LP about once a month! next moth I'll get LZ new Remasters, that will be both formats. :-) and Im no
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2014 13:12:36 GMT -5
If there is something I am interested in but it is not Qobuz, I seek out the CD, or LP until I find it to make a purchase.
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Sept 17, 2014 13:44:25 GMT -5
Probably so, but streaming sucks IMO...don't like another entity having possession, or control...I like the physical media that I can own and that I can control, or loan, or,...whatever. I did not say I like it but ask around. No one buys CDs anymore I would have to assume that sales for physical CD's are down, but when I get to the big city I try and get down to HMV and I can never believe how busy it is, there is a constant line of around 15 or so people at the 2 tills, Winnipeg also has a locally owned music store called "Into The Music" but I have yet to make it down there.
|
|
|
Post by monkumonku on Sept 17, 2014 13:48:51 GMT -5
Probably so, but streaming sucks IMO...don't like another entity having possession, or control...I like the physical media that I can own and that I can control, or loan, or,...whatever. I did not say I like it but ask around. No one buys CDs anymore Maybe you ought to start a poll. I still buy CD's.
|
|
|
Post by Bonzo on Sept 17, 2014 14:21:20 GMT -5
I did not say I like it but ask around. No one buys CDs anymore Maybe you ought to start a poll. I still buy CD's. I'll bet on this forum it's not too bad, but that's just a guess. There are a lot of people here who only do digital also. Every once and I while I see in some literature the sales of CD's and Vinyl, but I honestly forget the last numbers I read. It's certainly FAR from dead as some will have you believe. It's true that sales are way down from the hay day years of the 90's. And it's true that economically speaking a drop of, say 50%, in sales isn't good. But if the hay day was 100, it's not like sales now is 5. It's more like 35-40 (again, I forget the exact number). The total number of CD's sold is still a lot. Places like Amazon did a big part to kill brick and mortar, not just downloads and streaming. Problem is the average age of people who still buy them gets older and older, so at some point they will be a rarity. I dread the day if they ever go away entirely. By the way, I have 2 CD's and a vinyl on the way in the mail right now.
|
|
|
Post by thepcguy on Sept 17, 2014 14:27:06 GMT -5
Probably so, but streaming sucks IMO...don't like another entity having possession, or control...I like the physical media that I can own and that I can control, or loan, or,...whatever. I did not say I like it but ask around. No one buys CDs anymore People still buy CDs - From Thrift shops, Yard sales, Craigslist, friends, from Amazon but used ones. This is the reason why sales figures are down. After being ripped, they end up in the re-sale market.
|
|
|
Post by gordonsmith on Sept 17, 2014 15:42:53 GMT -5
I did not say I like it but ask around. No one buys CDs anymore Maybe you ought to start a poll. I still buy CD's. I bought a few 2 weeks ago. I'm not "old", but I still like the idea of owning something physical.
I'm torn... WRT eBooks, I sometimes buy paper - sometimes eBooks.
*shrug*
|
|
|
Post by vneal on Sept 17, 2014 15:46:43 GMT -5
Digital Music Sales Decrease For First Time in 2013 NEWSNEWSDIGITAL AND MOBILELEGAL AND MANAGEMENTRETAIL By Ed Christman, New York | January 03, 2014 9:21 AM EST
Digital Music Sales Decrease For First Time in 2013 112 in 1.156 k 78 Comments For the first time since the iTunes store opened its doors, the U.S. music industry finished the year with a decrease in digital music sales.
Nielsen SoundScan Mid-Year Report: Digital Album and Single Sales Slow Justin Timberlake's '20/20' 2013's Best Selling Album, 'Blurred Lines' Top Song The Music Biz in 2013: In Flux, Disruptors Disrupted While the digital track sales decline had been expected due to weaker sales in the first three quarters, the digital album downturn comes as more of a surprise as the album bundle had started out the year with a strong first quarter.
Overall for the full year 2013, digital track sales fell 5.7% from 1.34 billion units to 1.26 billion units while digital album sales fell 0.1% to 117.6 million units from the previous year’s total of 117.7 million, according to Nielsen SoundScan.
While industry executives initially refused to attribute the early signs this year of digital sales weakness to the consumer's growing appetite for streaming, in the second half of the year many were conceding that ad-supported and paid subscription services were indeed cannibalizing digital sales.
While SoundScan has not yet released its annual streaming numbers numbers, so far industry executives have been reporting that the growth in streaming revenue has been offsetting the decline in digital sales revenue.
Overall, album sales suffered an 8.4% decline, dipping to 289.4 million units from nearly 316 million units in 2012. The CD declined 14.5% to 165.4 million units, down from 193.4 million in the prior year, while vinyl continued its ascension rising to 6 million units from the 4.55 million the format tallied in 2012. That means vinyl is now 2% of album sales in the U.S; digital albums comprise 40.6% and the CD is 57.2% and cassettes and DVDs 0.2%.
Meanwhile, album plus track equivalent albums fell to 415.3 million units, down from 449.5 million units in 2012, which represents a 7.6% drop.
FOR THOSE WHO CAN READ DIGITAL MP3 SALES ARE DOWN AS ARE CD SALES. I HAVE OVER 3000 CDs. Younger music listeners do not buy CDs
|
|