Using XPA 200 and XDA-2 in HTS

[garbulky]

Oct 7, 2014 6:39:09 GMT -5 nags2014 said:

Hi, Thanks to all for your inputs. Initial impressions with my Emotiva...

I wanted to have a separate Stereo set up and was looking for
1. Clarity at low volumes--Fantastic, I wont miss even small bits..Vocals are Just amazing..I love this..musical for long hours listening without any strain!!
2. Improve staging ( Compared to my denon AVR)- I listen to the sounds from exact place as if in concert
3. I wanted to use my velodyne sub in the set up ie as 2.1--I have connected my XDA2 to amp by balanced and velodyne through unbalanced..so my wish of perfect 2.1 set up. But what i did not expect was the quality bass!!! Even if you raise the volume to higher level, you hear just tight bass..No boomy bass..True tight bass has added a different dimension to my stereo sound...Just i cant stop listening ...Thanks Emotiva...Its true..High end Audio at affordable price..

Now this has made me to become little more greedy...I just connected my cell phone to XPA200 Amp directly--- using Headphone out from phone to unbalanced input on Amp directly with RCA cable, blown over with sound and clarity, but worried whether this is proper connection?? does this harm my amp in any way? please let me know..

Thanks once again..

Nagaraj

I am glad you are happy!
So the thing with cellphones you run into a few dangers.
As you know the XPA-200 goes at basically maximum volume all the time. All the volume control (turning it down from maximum) is done BEFORE the XPA-200 in this case your cell phone. If you accidentally left your cellphone at very loud volume you run the risk of getting VERY loud music when you plug in.

If you plug your cell phone in while the amp is turned on you may get very loud buzzes in the process, these buzzes can fry your tweeter. So you have to make sure the amp is off both before you plug it in and before you unplug it.

Some to most cellphones - especially at loud volume clip the signal due to their poor quality output. This clipping played at loud volume could also fry your speakers. I would say you are generally safe as long as you use some common sense. But I have seen about two people on the forum that fried their speakers due to using cellphones for music.

The cool thing is that cellphones have digital adapters that sometimes work. I think for the iphone it's caled the camera connection ki for $30. These don't ALWAYS work but sometimes do. There are also pure i-20 docks that do digital outputs for like $100. They send the signal to the XDA-2 DAC.
If you have a smart TV or blu ray player that has UPnP or airplay you can send your music or video over the wifi network from your cellphone and have it play through the tv or blu ray player into your XDA-2 DAC

[nags2014]

Thanks for timely advice garbulky...you saved my speakers..i was not aware of these..I got all your points..I will not use my phone..will try to buy some docker or other methods..

[garbulky]

Well you can use your phone. I don't want to discourage you! Just take a few precautions - don't play at party levels and always turn off the amp before plugging it in and unplugging it.

[nags2014]

Hi, After enjoying my stereo 2.1 all these days I am back for your inputs to add my next emotiva gear in my chain. My initial plan was to add stereo to my HTS setup but after taking your suggestions decided to build seperate stereo setup without disturbing my HTS ..
So I have exlusive stereo listening place in the form of small room measuring 12ft *11ft without any acoustic treatment. My source is LG BDP and windows7 PC connected to xda2 and xpa200 amp, tannoy v4 FS speakers and velodyne impct 12 subwoofer completes the set up. My plan is to buy cd player and preamp- ERC3 and XSP1 gen2. Need advice on
1. Which Should I buy first?
2. If I buy preamp only does it add any value in terms of sound quality to my current setup?
3. Should I buy ERC3 first? I am from india so is it better if I buy CD player which can be serviced locally, since I dont want to send back erc3 due to high cost of courier in future, so what are alternatives?
4. Since I have dac already and my player is only acting as transport, should I buy TT? Neither I have listened to TT nor have any knowledge about it, I am total nob here, I only want to listen and enjoy the best music- classic, pop, folk and movie songs.

Thanks to all in advance

Waiting for valuable guidance
Nagaraj

[garbulky]

Nov 27, 2014 6:39:39 GMT -5 nags2014 said:

Hi, After enjoying my stereo 2.1 all these days I am back for your inputs to add my next emotiva gear in my chain. My initial plan was to add stereo to my HTS setup but after taking your suggestions decided to build seperate stereo setup without disturbing my HTS ..
So I have exlusive stereo listening place in the form of small room measuring 12ft *11ft without any acoustic treatment. My source is LG BDP and windows7 PC connected to xda2 and xpa200 amp, tannoy v4 FS speakers and velodyne impct 12 subwoofer completes the set up. My plan is to buy cd player and preamp- ERC3 and XSP1 gen2. Need advice on
1. Which Should I buy first?
2. If I buy preamp only does it add any value in terms of sound quality to my current setup?
3. Should I buy ERC3 first? I am from india so is it better if I buy CD player which can be serviced locally, since I dont want to send back erc3 due to high cost of courier in future, so what are alternatives?
4. Since I have dac already and my player is only acting as transport, should I buy TT? Neither I have listened to TT nor have any knowledge about it, I am total nob here, I only want to listen and enjoy the best music- classic, pop, folk and movie songs.

Thanks to all in advance

Waiting for valuable guidance
Nagaraj

1. XSP-1
2. Yes it adds value to the sound. I noticed a better sound from the XDA-2 when connected to an XSP-1. It actually sounded pretty reasonable imo. In fact the XDA-2 and the oppo 105 both benefitted from the XSP-1. Better dynamics, deeper soundstage. This was so audible that I could tell the difference in a blind test, and I rarely make such a claim as I usually can't - even with products where I know there is a difference.
3. No. If you have ANY cheap CD or DVD or blu ray player right now, you can just play your CD's on it and send it to the XDA-2 via digial connection. And then hook up the XDA-2 to the sound. You can still buy the ERC-3, but I don't know how much of an improvement (if any) it will bring.
4. A TT needs vinyl records. Do you have a lot of those? If you don't, then I suspect you may buy a few records and stop listening after the novelty wears off. If you have access to a lot of it, it might be fun. So my answer is, unless you are already into it then no.

[nags2014]

Thank you garbulky, you are spot on.. I will get xsp1..will see how my LG BDP sounds in new setup, later take call on ERC3.. I dont have any vinyls with me, but wanted start new journey since xsp has built in phono in. I am reading that vinyls sales are all time high this year and TT is making come back. So thinking of investing in TT rather than CD player..

[nags2014]

Hi, I have 2 more questions
1. I have seen HTS bypas on XSP1 which is a stereo amp, how to use this  and what are the advantages?? is this for 2 channel movie watching?
2. XSP also has sub out put, Can someone explain me how to use it in stereo as well HTS bypas set up?

I am sorry for very basic questions, need few clarifications before buy, difficult to get demo for pre amp

Thanks

[garbulky]

Nov 28, 2014 5:05:15 GMT -5 nags2014 said:

Hi, I have 2 more questions
1. I have seen HTS bypas on XSP1 which is a stereo amp, how to use this  and what are the advantages?? is this for 2 channel movie watching?
2. XSP also has sub out put, Can someone explain me how to use it in stereo as well HTS bypas set up?

I am sorry for very basic questions, need few clarifications before buy, difficult to get demo for pre amp

Thanks

Okay what happens is this. If you want to use a pre-amp with a multichannel surround sound setup, the reciever tends to do all the volume control. So if you happen to use your pre-amp's volume control at the time you would have two different volumes - the recievers volume, and the pre-amps volume.
Also, your pre-amp usually also has your only subwoofer hooked up to it. But in surround sound, the reciever has a dedicated subwoofer channel that is connected to the subwoofer.

So how the XSP-1 does this is like this.
In HT bypass mode, you connect the front left and right output coming from the reciever/avr's pre-amp outputs. To the XSP-1. You ALSO connect the subwoofer output channel of the AVR to the XS_1.
Then you press the HT bypass, and the XSP-1 basically STOPS controlling the volume and acts as a passthrough for the AVR allowing the avr/reciever to control the volume further upstream.
As for the subwoofer, the XSP-1 acts as where you connect the subwoofer in both 2 channel and HT. It provides the crossover in two channel setups. And during HT Bypass it will passthe subwoofer channel from the AVR to the subwoofer - as well.

So what this means is that two channel from a DAC annd surround sound from a (usually) poorer sound quality wise avr integrates seamlessly. And....they are both also kept separate from each other so the two channel dac doesn't have to travel through the (usually) poorer quality avr's analog circuit to get to the amps.

[nags2014]

Thanks garbulky for explaining clearly in simplest words , I have left and right rca output from my satellite set top box which I plan to connect directly to xsp1.. how will this sound? My xda2 doesn't have analogue inputs.. will unbalanced input is converted to balanced output by xsp1 or do I need to connect xsp1 to amp using unbalanced rca connect separately?

Thanks for your valuable advice
Nagaraj

[garbulky]

Yes. No matter how you connect it unbalanced or balanced, it will output it the way you want to your amp (XLR or RCA). Having said all that, I went back and read your post. It appears that you have a set of tannoy speakers that go for around $350 to 400.

Now there's nothing wrong with that, but I want to caution you that you will be now spending much more on the electronics than your speakers and better value for your money can be gained by spending on speakers than electronics. Also some speakers or room setups do not have the resolving capability for one to be able to hear any kind of benefit in upgrading electronics.

I haven't heard your speakers and I have no idea how it sounds. And I promise, I'm not trying to insult them. But I thought I would caution you just in case. Having said that, you can purchase the electronics now and if there is no real difference, you will still have a nice front end for any speakers you purchase later.

[nags2014]

Thank you, but I am taking baby steps into ocean called hifi world. I have a lot to learn and long way to go. My tannoy speakers were part of my HTS, I am using presently in stereo setup, need to upgrade. Earlier I used to listen using denon avr, so xda2 and xpa 200 made big difference and i am really enjoying it. If xda2 preamp is not that bad, then can I go for speakers instead of xsp1? What is your take and any suggestions for speakers so I can start auditioning?

[garbulky]

Gotcha. Well since your location is very different, I don't know what is available for you to auditio and what your price range is. Shipping overseas can push the cost up tremendously and increase risk for shipping problems for speakers.

I know you already have amps, but I think the emotiva pro stealth models are very nice values.

[novisnick]

Nov 30, 2014 1:26:15 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Gotcha. Well since your location is very different, I don't know what is available for you to auditio and what your price range is. Shipping overseas can push the cost up tremendously and increase risk for shipping problems for speakers.

I know you already have amps, but I think the emotiva pro stealth models are very nice values.

Gar, you have done a great job helping this member. Way to go brother!!!!!!

[nags2014]

Hi, I am enclosing My Tannoy Mercury V4 Floor standing Speakers specs, are these speakers adequate for stereo listening ?? Do i need to update my speaker?

PERFORMANCE
Recommended amplifier power (Watts RMS) 10 - 140
Continuous power handling
(Watts Peak RMS) 100
Peak power handling (Watts) 200
Sensitivity (2.83 Volts @ 1m) 91dB
Nominal Impedance (Ohms) 8
Frequency response (-6dB) 32Hz – 25kHz
DRIVE UNITS
High frequency 25mm (1.00”) Nitro-urethane layer dampened woven polyesterdome, neodymium magnet assembly
Low frequency 2 x 152mm (6.00”) Multi-fibre coated pulped paper cone
Shielded Yes
CROSSOVER
Crossover Frequency 2.6kHz
Crossover Type Bi-Wirable 4th order acoustic Linkwitz-Riley
CABINET
Enclosure type Rear reflex
Construction 15mm particle board, internally cross-braced enclosure
18mm MDF front baffle
Dimensions (inc grille) H x W x D 970.0 x 204.0 x 281.0mm (38.19 x 8.03 x 11.06”)
Volume - litres (cubic feet) 38.5 (1.36)
Weight 14.2kg (31.3lbs)

[garbulky]

Dec 3, 2014 8:54:07 GMT -5 nags2014 said:

Hi, I am enclosing My Tannoy Mercury V4 Floor standing Speakers specs, are these speakers adequate for stereo listening ?? Do i need to update my speaker?

PERFORMANCE
Recommended amplifier power (Watts RMS) 10 - 140
Continuous power handling
(Watts Peak RMS) 100
Peak power handling (Watts) 200
Sensitivity (2.83 Volts @ 1m) 91dB
Nominal Impedance (Ohms) 8
Frequency response (-6dB) 32Hz – 25kHz
DRIVE UNITS
High frequency 25mm (1.00”) Nitro-urethane layer dampened woven polyesterdome, neodymium magnet assembly
Low frequency 2 x 152mm (6.00”) Multi-fibre coated pulped paper cone
Shielded Yes
CROSSOVER
Crossover Frequency 2.6kHz
Crossover Type Bi-Wirable 4th order acoustic Linkwitz-Riley
CABINET
Enclosure type Rear reflex
Construction 15mm particle board, internally cross-braced enclosure
18mm MDF front baffle
Dimensions (inc grille) H x W x D 970.0 x 204.0 x 281.0mm (38.19 x 8.03 x 11.06”)
Volume - litres (cubic feet) 38.5 (1.36)
Weight 14.2kg (31.3lbs)

I'm sorry I couldn't tell you. I haven't heard it. What do you think of the sound? Are you happy with it?

[nags2014]

Yes I am definitely happy with my setup and like the way my speakers sound musical. I want to upgrade and needed inputs on what should I add or replace to my current setup , my budget is $1000. I haven't heard any other setup so don't know how best sounding is my system. I request all senior FMs who have heard / owned similar setup to suggest on my next purchase. I spend only if it really improves sound quality.
Thank you all in advance...

[garbulky]

Dec 3, 2014 20:53:52 GMT -5 nags2014 said:

Yes I am definitely happy with my setup and like the way my speakers sound musical. I want to upgrade and needed inputs on what should I add or replace to my current setup , my budget is $1000. I haven't heard any other setup so don't know how best sounding is my system. I request all senior FMs who have heard / owned similar setup to suggest on my next purchase. I spend only if it really improves sound quality.
Thank you all in advance...

Gotcha. Well a few more questions. Youre not from US right? so does shipping the speakers over there coss affect this because that can bump the price up quite a bit.
You can get some pretty decent for that price, but there are a good amount of dogs out there too. I assume that this expense will be pretty tough on the pocketbook right so you want it to be an upgrade you can live with for a long time - i.e. something that sounds a lot better?
If that's the case, I suggest bumping up the budget to $1500 or maybe even 2000 for the speakers and taking as long as needed to save up for that. It sounds to me like your stuff is already pretty good so you won't be disliking the music right now. This is to prevent you from making a slight upgrade in sound quality (and then having you upgrade again).

For instance, I bought a set of axiom m80's - I got really lucky. They bought a certain amount of sound quality which has so far NOT lead me to have a burning desire to upgrade. If I had got a lesser set of speakers, I know I would have upgraded several times. In fact, that's what happened to me before this. I spent MORE money upgrading over several sets of speakers than I would have just buying my axioms outright.
I'm not saying these are perfect speakers - far from it. Just that they are good enough for me.

At $1500, I think your options become a lot more appealing.
For instance:
You can get Emotiva stealth 8's
or a set of stealth 6 + powersound XVA 15 subwoofer. You should get incredible performance out of this setup.
You could get yourself a set of LX Mini's built + PSA XV15 subwoofer for some really nice performance. The LX mini is a diy design that may have companies willing to assemble it. it's not a very heavy speaker and actually may be able to deliver quite a bit of quality for a surprisingly low price. It would need a subwoofer though. The owner says it is designed to sound like his LX 521 system without the bass extension for a budget. He is a very well regarded speaker designer who came up with the linkwitz crossover (pretty huge!)

Some other well known popular stuff:
Philharmonic audio (designer for the higher end salk sound speakers does these in cheaper enclosures to bring costs down and uses high quality drivers like RAAL)
www.philharmonicaudio.com/index.html

Tekton Design (handmade by the designer for aperion audio):
tektondesign.com/enzo.html
These come in a little pricey but they should outperform most speakers out there judging by pop who had the pendragons and never heard sound like that before. He said the sound was MASSIVE.
His lore reference comes in at $1000 and should sound pretty nice.
tektondesign.com/r-loreoct.html
He also happens to have the Lore-S which uses Seas drivers which are well known higher end stuff.

There's a guy out there who happens to like Phase Technology speakers

There are also fans of Magnepan MMG and 1.7 speakers. Though not personally the speakers I would go for, they do possess a remarkable ability to produce a holographic sound and they can do it better than regular speakers. They DO need a subwoofer. The MMG comes in at under your budget.

[nags2014]

Oh, Such a detailed writeup, thank you. I googled Axiom m80 speakers , they are beauty and nearly $3500 which is well beyond my budget, But i will keep them in my radar. As you suggested getting speakers from US and other places becomes difficult due to shipping cost and also chances of getting damaged(hence dropping emotiva stealth from list,very sad), will start searching locally available in INDIA where i stay. Many international brands like Harbeth, Dali, Bowers & Wilkins, Elac, KEF are available, so can you please enlighten me about these brands? are they really audiophile quality? Definitely i will follow your advice and increase my budget to $1500 or max of $2000 so i need not look for upgrade in near future.

Once again thanks for kind advice

[garbulky]

Dec 5, 2014 2:55:48 GMT -5 nags2014 said:

Oh, Such a detailed writeup, thank you. I googled Axiom m80 speakers , they are beauty and nearly $3500 which is well beyond my budget, But i will keep them in my radar. As you suggested getting speakers from US and other places becomes difficult due to shipping cost and also chances of getting damaged(hence dropping emotiva stealth from list,very sad), will start searching locally available in INDIA where i stay. Many international brands like Harbeth, Dali, Bowers & Wilkins, Elac, KEF are available, so can you please enlighten me about these brands? are they really audiophile quality? Definitely i will follow your advice and increase my budget to $1500 or max of $2000 so i need not look for upgrade in near future.

Once again thanks for kind advice

Nah the axiom;s aren't that expensive. I got them when they were $1300 new. Their latest m80 goes for under 2k.
www.axiomaudio.com/m80-floorstanding-speakers
I haven't heard of Elac but the others are known decent brands. However...something tells me any of their decent models is going to be way more than anything near your budget and also way overpriced. I'm guessing $3000 to $5000 when sold by a local dealer there for a speaker that may retail for $1000. Those guys over there really like to jack up their prices. You may do better shipping overseas - but....there is a risk!

[nags2014]

I spoke to local dealer for Harbeth speakers and got quote of $2500 for entry model!! so thinking of taking risk of importing from outside. went through tektondesign.com/r-loreoct.html, liked the specs of mid tower Lore reference range and holiday sale for $799 / pair is going on, need to send them mail request for details regarding shipment and final landing cost. Major drawback is i cant hear them before purchase, i dont think any one is having or heard of tekton design here in INDIA, have to purely relay on US friends feedback. Let me adventure and see how this works out.

Before this I have 2 very basic questions about listening volume settings / Volume level, not got clear answers after browsing so many audio forums
1. I am using foobar for PC connected to XDA2. I have set the volume to max on foobar and control XDA2 volume using remote, generally listen at -38 to -42 level (displayed over xda2). Is this correct? or should i do other way round ie set XDA2 remote volume to -18(? song recording reference level) and control foobar sound to my listening level?
1. what is the listening level in general( I know it is personal but just for my knowledge)?? I don't have SPL meter, but sound meter (android app) installed on mobile shows 60 db at my listening position, hope i am not listening at high level and damage my hearing!! Average listening time is about 1-2hrs /day

with warm regards
Nagaraj