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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 13:01:29 GMT -5
I have been thinking about getting a higher end disk player with my main concern being the quality of 2 channel audio (and SACD). As you know, there has been a lot written about the virtues off one versus the other on 2 channel audio.
I have read extensively on the subject, but I just wanted to hear some opinions from some the forum members here. Again, I am only interested in opinions regarding 2 channel audio, and no other aspect about these players. I know all about the feature differences, the fan, the configuration differences of the Sabre chips, , etc., etc.
Are there any one you that have owned both units? I would like opinions based on audio experience, not on theory please. I have seen recently some BDP-95 going lately for less than 1/2 of the BDP-105 so I am leaning towards the 95 if the 2 channel is at least as good.
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 10, 2014 13:18:55 GMT -5
For 2 channel audio my suggestion would be an ERC-3, sounds better than a 105 (my ears, my set up, my room) and costs less than 1/3rd as much.
Cheers Gary
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FLcanuck
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Post by FLcanuck on Oct 10, 2014 14:01:57 GMT -5
I have both, and have had both in the same system. To me, the 105 has a bit better defined/tighter bass and a tad more detail, but it is definitely not a night and day difference. These differences are based on my listening in a fairly well-treated room (at least I think it is), so the differences may not apply/be very different in a non-treated/very open space. Also, the differences were consistent when using the Oppos as a source and as a pre-amp (direct to amps). And finally, the differences were more apparent on well-recorded material. All subjective of course - no well-designed double blind experiments here. So, if your purchase decision is based on 2-channel audio sound (and not feature set), I personally don't think it would be worth it if you can get a 95 for half the cost of a 105. Spend some of the difference on room treatments and you'll be way ahead of the game, or if you've already got a well-treated room, call it a day, enjoy the 95, and put the extra cash towards your next upgrade/addition.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 10, 2014 14:23:47 GMT -5
For 2 channel audio my suggestion would be an ERC-3, sounds better than a 105 (my ears, my set up, my room) and costs less than 1/3rd as much. Cheers Gary Hey Gary, when I mentioned SACD above I meant to state "multi-channel" SACD. Going right along with that would be BD Audio, and BD DVD's as I do have a number of BD Concert DVD's. But, my main focus is 2 channel.
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Post by redog on Oct 10, 2014 20:12:51 GMT -5
From a few reviews that I've read the two sound nearly identical.
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Post by Gary Cook on Oct 11, 2014 3:09:46 GMT -5
For 2 channel audio my suggestion would be an ERC-3, sounds better than a 105 (my ears, my set up, my room) and costs less than 1/3rd as much. Hey Gary, when I mentioned SACD above I meant to state "multi-channel" SACD. Going right along with that would be BD Audio, and BD DVD's as I do have a number of BD Concert DVD's. But, my main focus is 2 channel. OK, I'll admit it Im confused The title of the thread is "Oppo BDP-95 vs BDP-105 on 2 channel only" Then there is the first post that says "I am only interested in opinions regarding 2 channel audio"Hence why I recommended the ERC-3. Cheers Gary
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2014 10:33:18 GMT -5
Hey Gary, sorry to be confusing here. It's only the differences in 2 channel audio between these two Oppo units that I wanted to get opinions on. I want the player to have MC SACD, and BD capability with multi-analog outs, but that is not my prime concern between the BDP-105 vs BDP-95. I only want to know if one is better at 2 channel than the other. That will conclusion will "make or break" my decision on which of the two units to get.
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Post by guzz46 on Oct 11, 2014 13:49:41 GMT -5
There is a third option if you don't need balanced outputs, I used to have an Oppo BDP-103 NXE, also had a BDP-95 in my system for a couple of days on demo a while back, and found they sounded almost identical, I don't think I would be able to pick them apart in a blind test. However the Cambridge 752BD does sound noticeable different, I would definitely be able to tell them apart in a blind test, the 752 has a slightly warmer sound, the most noticeable difference I heard when A/Bing them was the smoother highs on the 752. In my opinion the Oppo's are better for movies with more of an analytical sound, and the Cambridge is better for music with it's warmer sound.
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Post by boomzilla on Oct 11, 2014 14:12:22 GMT -5
+1 for FLcanuck's comments!
I've owned both the 95 and the 105 (but not at the same time).
I used both as stereo DACs for all my audio listening. I think I agree with FLcanuck that the 105 is a bit clearer than the 95. In fact, I've not really heard any better DAC than the 105. I've been through a half-dozen DACs, but the 105 is one of the most neutral I've heard. I also like the AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2 for some things (but it's USB only and it has a bit of treble zing that the 105 lacks). The Jolida tube DAC was equally neutral, but with the 105, I didn't feel any need to keep both (they were that close). Since the 105 plays discs in addition to serving as a DAC, I chose to keep it and sell the other DACs.
If I had to criticize the 105, my only complaint would be that with some (not all, but some) power amps, the 105 doesn't have sufficient dynamics when driving the amps directly. In other words, having a preamplifier in the system improves the dynamics of some amps vs. having the Oppo outputs drive the amps directly. The difference isn't large, but it is (sometimes) noticeable.
That said, there are some things I haven't done with the 105 (for example, drive headphones) so I can't comment on those aspects of 105 performance. I will say that, to my ears, the Oppo would be a bargain at its price if it were ONLY a DAC. The fact that it is also a world-class disc player is just icing on the cake.
Boomzilla
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Post by redog on Oct 11, 2014 19:00:33 GMT -5
+1 for FLcanuck's comments! I've owned both the 95 and the 105 (but not at the same time). I used both as stereo DACs for all my audio listening. I think I agree with FLcanuck that the 105 is a bit clearer than the 95. In fact, I've not really heard any better DAC than the 105. I've been through a half-dozen DACs, but the 105 is one of the most neutral I've heard. I also like the AudioQuest Dragonfly 1.2 for some things (but it's USB only and it has a bit of treble zing that the 105 lacks). The Jolida tube DAC was equally neutral, but with the 105, I didn't feel any need to keep both (they were that close). Since the 105 plays discs in addition to serving as a DAC, I chose to keep it and sell the other DACs. If I had to criticize the 105, my only complaint would be that with some (not all, but some) power amps, the 105 doesn't have sufficient dynamics when driving the amps directly. In other words, having a preamplifier in the system improves the dynamics of some amps vs. having the Oppo outputs drive the amps directly. The difference isn't large, but it is (sometimes) noticeable. That said, there are some things I haven't done with the 105 (for example, drive headphones) so I can't comment on those aspects of 105 performance. I will say that, to my ears, the Oppo would be a bargain at its price if it were ONLY a DAC. The fact that it is also a world-class disc player is just icing on the cake. Boomzilla I totally agree! The 105 is the one piece of equipment I've never doubted in my system. It is my preamp, DAC, BD player, and media hub. By far the best value in audio I've ever had.
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Post by tasdom on Oct 11, 2014 19:16:23 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 0:23:06 GMT -5
There is a third option if you don't need balanced outputs, I used to have an Oppo BDP-103 NXE, also had a BDP-95 in my system for a couple of days on demo a while back, and found they sounded almost identical, I don't think I would be able to pick them apart in a blind test. However the Cambridge 752BD does sound noticeable different, I would definitely be able to tell them apart in a blind test, the 752 has a slightly warmer sound, the most noticeable difference I heard when A/Bing them was the smoother highs on the 752. In my opinion the Oppo's are better for movies with more of an analytical sound, and the Cambridge is better for music with it's warmer sound. ================================================================================================================== I think it is through the 95's "hot rodded" XLR stereo outs is where you will here the most difference in 2 channel stereo. (Someone chime in if I am wrong about this.) Comparing RCA outs only on the 2 units you mentioned above, I can see where you might not hear much, if any difference. Your opinion of the 752BD is in agreement with what everyone who has heard both the OPPO and Cambridge units say. And from those opinions I strongly lean towards the 752BD. Problem is you can't find a used one anywhere it seems. I wished it had XLR outs, but maybe that is not such a big deal. It's just that I have noticed a lower noise floor with the XLR's. Thanks for your comment!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 0:32:30 GMT -5
So, you guys that have owned the 95 or the 105 or both; listening to 2 channel RCA vs XLR outs was there any audible difference?
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Post by guzz46 on Oct 12, 2014 0:51:52 GMT -5
There is a third option if you don't need balanced outputs, I used to have an Oppo BDP-103 NXE, also had a BDP-95 in my system for a couple of days on demo a while back, and found they sounded almost identical, I don't think I would be able to pick them apart in a blind test. However the Cambridge 752BD does sound noticeable different, I would definitely be able to tell them apart in a blind test, the 752 has a slightly warmer sound, the most noticeable difference I heard when A/Bing them was the smoother highs on the 752. In my opinion the Oppo's are better for movies with more of an analytical sound, and the Cambridge is better for music with it's warmer sound. ================================================================================================================== I think it is through the 95's "hot rodded" XLR stereo outs is where you will here the most difference in 2 channel stereo. (Someone chime in if I am wrong about this.) Comparing RCA outs only on the 2 units you mentioned above, I can see where you might not hear much, if any difference. Your opinion of the 752BD is in agreement with what everyone who has heard both the OPPO and Cambridge units say. And from those opinions I strongly lean towards the 752BD. Problem is you can't find a used one anywhere it seems. I wished it had XLR outs, but maybe that is not such a big deal. It's just that I have noticed a lower noise floor with the XLR's. Thanks for your comment! My flatmate at the time had a Perreaux 250i and a BDP-93, and we a/b the 95 and the 93 using the XLR outputs of the 95, and from memory I think the the 95 sounded slightly more dynamic through the XLR, but it was only slight, it was my flatmate who was demoing the 95, and he ended up keeping the 93 On that topic, I recently brought some Cardas gold RCA to XLR adapters for the 752, and it actually sounds better through the XLR adapters into the XPA-1's, there's slightly more dynamics, it's not louder, its kind of like the difference between a well recorded cd and a slightly compressed cd. Don't know why.
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Post by boomzilla on Oct 12, 2014 1:08:40 GMT -5
So, you guys that have owned the 95 or the 105 or both; listening to 2 channel RCA vs XLR outs was there any audible difference? In my setup, I find little or no audible difference between unbalanced and balanced outputs. The main difference is that the XLR (balanced) outputs are full-range only; the RCA (unbalanced) can be full range or high-pass (using the Oppo's bass management).
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Post by vneal on Oct 12, 2014 7:51:14 GMT -5
For 2 ch CD sound I still think the MERIDIAN players have the most musical sound.
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Post by uthiker on Oct 12, 2014 8:56:02 GMT -5
Oppo 105 balanced 2channel to XSP balanced to XPA 1L's is musical bliss to my ears....Even streaming Pandora sounds great.
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FLcanuck
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Post by FLcanuck on Oct 12, 2014 9:40:17 GMT -5
So, you guys that have owned the 95 or the 105 or both; listening to 2 channel RCA vs XLR outs was there any audible difference? In my setup, I find little or no audible difference between unbalanced and balanced outputs. The main difference is that the XLR (balanced) outputs are full-range only; the RCA (unbalanced) can be full range or high-pass (using the Oppo's bass management). Once level-matched, I didn't notice any difference between the 2-channel RCA and XLR outs either. Boom, the XLR outs can be set to work with bass management as well - same as the RCAs. Settings: Audio Processing - Stereo Signal - "Front Left/Right" (not Downmixed Stereo), and then in Audio Processing - Speaker Configuration - Front L and Front R "small", Sub "on", Downmix "5.1" or "7.1" (not "Stereo" - that will automatically change your settings to FL/FR only - large and no sub). I believe the only time you can't get bass management is when playing SACD DSD (or of course if you have your FL/FR set to large) or when using the USB DAC input.
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Post by boomzilla on Oct 12, 2014 9:44:11 GMT -5
Thanks, FLcanuck - I'd missed that!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2014 11:59:06 GMT -5
Thanks for all your comments! I am not sure I am any closer to a decision though. It's just that I can get a BDP-95 for slight less than 1/2 the cost of a BDP-105, but that doesn't matter to me if the 105 justifies the cost. And, because I have read several comments along the lines of this
Amazing sound: better than the BDP-105 By Johnny B Goodeon April 10, 2013 Verified Purchase I returned the BDP-105 and got a BDP-95. I think the BDP-95 sounds much better, but the 105 is quite good. (See my BDP-105 review for details on that player).
The BDP-95 lives here now. I love it. The interface for playing high res files from USB sticks and hard drives is fine for me (not that iTunes would not be nicer). System: Martin Logan Aerius i speakers, Krell KAV-300 i amp. The 95 sounds like heaven to these ears: intricate, gentle treble, transparent mids, and punchy, tuneful bass. The bass has really been growing on me. Of course, with a bad CD or file the player will show all the faults, but with the good stuff, the 95 oozes music.
Favorites:
Rimsky-Korsakov: Scheherazade / Stravinsky: Song of the Nightingale Stevie Wonder: Innervisions, Songs in the Key of Life Brubeck Quartet: Take Five (SACD)
it makes the decision even more difficult! This is the shortest of the 105 vs 95 comparisons. Many others are more detailed favoring the 95 on 2 channel. The one that I am trying to find is where a guy says that he called Oppo direct to ask the 2 channel, 105 vs 95, question that I am pursuing. He even mentions the tech's name at Oppo so the opinion may be legit. This was during the time that the 105's had come out, but Oppo was still selling their "left over, or refurbished 95's". He said that the Oppo tech said that most everyone at Oppo agreed the 95 sounded better on 2 channel, but the other advancements on the 105 made the 105 overall the better machine. Ummm......what to think.
============================================================================================================================================
Ok, help me explore one other angle here. Has anyone compared a FLAC recording of a song vs the exact same song played on a CD played by the 105 vs 95? Is there be any difference there?
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