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Post by garbulky on Nov 9, 2014 17:01:12 GMT -5
With the axioms? Absolutely! The axioms are SO VERY PLACEMENT SENSITIVE. Whether it is too close to the rear walls, too far, and absolutely if it is too close together. Get it just right and it is fantastic!
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Post by lionear on Nov 10, 2014 1:40:46 GMT -5
Congratulations! I think this is true for any audiophile-grade speaker, and especially so for speakers with a port in the rear. You may wish to keep experimenting. You can vary the distance from the rear wall, how far apart they are and toe-in. And as Garbulky says, the effect is huge - it's like adjusting the focus on an SLR camera.
I'd suggest keeping them flat (no toe-in) at first, and play around with how the sound changes when you move them off the wall and closer to the wall. There will be a magic spot where the stage is deep, and you don't lose bass. (Hint: in many cases, it will be further off the back wall than you might first imagine.) Then you can move them closer together or further apart until you get a really good soundstage in the center. And then you can play with toe-in. In most cases, people will suggest that you aim the tweeter at your ears. However, that's not always going to be the best. Of course, everything affects everything, so after you've investigated everything at one spot, you might want to adjust the distance off the back wall again, and repeat the whole process.
(If you have a subwoofer, I'd suggest switching it off. When you've found the sweet spot for the main speakers, then you can re-introduce the sub, and work with the levels and frequency so that you get the bass, but where the soundstage is not distorted by the sub.)
The magic spot will give you a certain perspective to the soundstage - and I think it's "fixed" by the speaker design. This is also affected by the volume setting. If it's too high, the soundstage will collapse. If it's too low, the sound will seem "distant" and you'd be missing details.
You might want to pick up a few CD's that have a lot of soundstage, too. Even if you don't like the music itself, you might find that large orchestra music will give you the best soundstage cues. It's harder to dial in speakers with music that was closely mic'd and mixed up artificially.
I'm not sure what the various room correction software, Dirac, etc. do to soundstage. I'd suggest switching all that off (if your equipment has it) and just using your ears.
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Post by jjkessler on Nov 10, 2014 6:14:14 GMT -5
I have the M80's as well and was wondering how you placed yours and what your room is like (mine is a 18' x 24' rectangular space with 10' ceiling).
Dedicated home theater room with twin subs, and all Axiom center and surrounds
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on Nov 10, 2014 7:17:01 GMT -5
I have the M80's as well and was wondering how you placed yours and what your room is like (mine is a 18' x 24' rectangular space with 10' ceiling). Dedicated home theater room with twin subs, and all Axiom center and surrounds Similar rooms. Mine is about 23x13x10, no windows, treatments behind the speakers as well on the back wall. My wife made sound dampening curtains that are hung all over the room. Speakers are now about 10' apart, slightly toed in. Still playing around with them as noted in the post by lionear above. |
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Post by jjkessler on Nov 10, 2014 8:09:18 GMT -5
Very nice. Mine are a bit too close together and it's time to play with the placement before Dirac is released so it sounds as good as possible before running it
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Post by garbulky on Nov 10, 2014 12:04:39 GMT -5
Very nice. Mine are a bit too close together and it's time to play with the placement before Dirac is released so it sounds as good as possible before running it Hi here is mine:  And here is B'zilla's  If possible move it away from the corner (I couldn't due to non-related constraints). Play around a LOOOOT with toe in and I mean a lot. And distance from your couch. Remove anything in the way. Move them forward of the plane of the equipment rack. Make sure they are equidistant from you. The distance from the walls also help. Also there is such a thing as too far and too close. So basically play around a lot. For me moving the couch a bit has also helped. I placed an ats acoustics room treatment on the wall behind my couch. Very worthwhile difference, Cut out a lot of muddiness. In fact that's the first thing I would do www.atsacoustics.com/item--ATS-Acoustic-Panel-24-x-48-x-2--1001.html |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Nov 10, 2014 13:14:55 GMT -5
I've said it before and I'll say it again: the single biggest improvement anyone can make to their system is room treatments, and this includes your system setup. I've created significant changes in people's rooms with simple adjustments to loudspeaker toe-in, or by closing a set of drapes, or by moving things around in a room. Proper room setup is critical.
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Post by jjkessler on Nov 10, 2014 14:39:10 GMT -5
How far away are you away from the wall?
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Post by garbulky on Nov 10, 2014 14:46:09 GMT -5
It depends on if you have subwoofers. You want it at least a foot and a half or two ... or more. Depends on your room and what constraints your working with. My friend and I have tried it in various configurations.
The problem with it being very close to the walls is sometimes the soundstage suffers, gets a little muddied. Pull it too far out and sometimes the bass may be found lacking (not so much a problem if you have a problem).
Play it by ear, but EXPERIMENT! A lot! It's taken me months to get close to a decent placement. Most placements sound good, but that right placement tends to snap everything into place. One thing you will notice is that when it is properly placed, the sound can "wrap around you or the sides of your head" or feel very immersive like you are sort of in a bubble. If not, you will hear it coming from the speakers but nothing reaching out to you and around your head.
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on Nov 10, 2014 18:13:05 GMT -5
I've already moved the speakers out another 6"-8". Nothing I can do about the sides. Looking at speakers from the couch.  Looking at the rear of the room from the front.  |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Nov 10, 2014 18:57:46 GMT -5
Subject says it all. I moved my front speakers (Axiom M80s) apart from each other another 2-3 feet and it gave me a totally different sound in 2 channel. Opened the soundstage and seemed to give me more clarity and separation of instruments in each speaker and across the front.
Simple and no cost change = a noticeable improvement!!!  Very nice and efficient concept. This is exactly the same rule between my wife and I; I moved apart from my wife each other another 20-30 feet and it gave me a totally different sound in dialog. Opened the soundstage and seemed to give me more clarity and separation of vocal demands and concerns. Simple and no cost change = a noticeable improvement!!!  |
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on Nov 10, 2014 19:16:50 GMT -5
Subject says it all. I moved my front speakers (Axiom M80s) apart from each other another 2-3 feet and it gave me a totally different sound in 2 channel. Opened the soundstage and seemed to give me more clarity and separation of instruments in each speaker and across the front.
Simple and no cost change = a noticeable improvement!!! Very nice and efficient concept. This is exactly the same rule between my wife and I; I moved apart from my wife each other another 20-30 feet and it gave me a totally different sound in dialog. Opened the soundstage and seemed to give me more clarity and separation of vocal demands and concerns. Simple and no cost change = a noticeable improvement!!! I'm sure the moments of silence bring a brief period of fear or apprehension of what is coming next. Sorta like when the sound goes "poof" in your system!!! |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 10, 2014 20:50:01 GMT -5
It's the sound of silence....
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on Nov 10, 2014 21:58:00 GMT -5
OK so now that I have moved the speakers out another few inches, the voices seem to be more spread out up front than before. They seemed to be more focused in he middle before (single male or female), while now they are still up front & centered, but more spread out if that makes any sense.
Not sure if one or the other is more natural.
Just gotta keep playing.
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Post by copperband on Nov 10, 2014 22:03:32 GMT -5
cgolf, what is the exact material of your "sound dampening curtains"? I am planning to buy one big piece to put behind my sofa(a big wall)
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on Nov 10, 2014 23:14:23 GMT -5
cgolf, what is the exact material of your "sound dampening curtains"? I am planning to buy one big piece to put behind my sofa(a big wall) It's a heavy duty black "velvet" type of material. |
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novisnick
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Post by novisnick on Nov 10, 2014 23:30:46 GMT -5
Eclipse Curtains Microfiber Grommet Blackout Energy-Efficient Curtain Panel
I got these at a good price from Walmart.
There black out curtains that also deaden sound, they work pretty well and placed behind my TV they improve the picture and sound.
I also use a set to cover a set of bi-fold doors.
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Post by copperband on Nov 11, 2014 20:06:00 GMT -5
thank you!
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