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Post by garbulky on Nov 19, 2014 17:50:08 GMT -5
That looks like some sort of wierd mistake. That's pretty high for an emo amp. |
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Post by simpleman68 on Nov 19, 2014 18:00:39 GMT -5
Howdy Neighbor!  Will be interesting to see what some new speakers yields. Those NHTs do have some mileage on them. See ya soon man! Scott |
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Nov 19, 2014 20:20:45 GMT -5
Howdy Neighbor! Will be interesting to see what some new speakers yields. Those NHTs do have some mileage on them. See ya soon man! Scott Right on Scott! Can't wait to see your XMC-1 when it arrives Friday! Cheers! |
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Post by moko on Nov 20, 2014 14:05:04 GMT -5
That looks like some sort of wierd mistake. That's pretty high for an emo amp. yeah. i bet emo tech support can give better explanation. but IMHO, this proves that even the same amp can react differently to different load, thus sounds different. and that's why those 8 ohms and 4 ohms mesurements are made. |
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Nov 20, 2014 19:39:59 GMT -5
Ok from the original post I was inquiring about a lack of bass on my NHT 2.9 speakers when using the XPA-3 GEN 2 amp. My initial impression was that amp was bright, harsh in the treble and had a thin overall sound. My concern was a serious lack of low frequencies at lessened volumes.
UPDATE:
After a few days of rewiring, experimenting and researching I want to amend my post. First rather than fault the amp, I actually am finding the speakers to be the culprits in a single amp environment. I've never single amped them before and have now swapped the Emotiva out for several other amps with exact same results.
Comparing apples to apples, the Emotiva XPA-3 GEN 2 is a relatively neutral amp with very little sonic signature. It conveys detail and soundstage nicely and accurately. It has broken in a bit now (over 100 constant) so it has improved.
To address my initial concerns of lack of bass my speakers are rated at 26-26,000hz with a nominal impedance of 6 ohms and a minimum impedance of 3.1 ohms. Frankly regardless of how good any one amp is the speaker needs different power driving the lows than the mids and highs. In my opinion after 3 days non stop of this is that they must be bi amped to sound their best. The frequencies under 100hz require different power than 15khz.
Now my question is which amp? Do I buy another XPA-3 gen2 one high one low or an XPA-2 low and keep my XPA-3 for highs? Do I sell my XPA-3 and buy a pair of XPA-2s for bi amping? Hmmmmm? Need your advice
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Post by garbulky on Nov 20, 2014 20:29:01 GMT -5
Ok from the original post I was inquiring about a lack of bass on my NHT 2.9 speakers when using the XPA-3 GEN 2 amp. My initial impression was that amp was bright, harsh in the treble and had a thin overall sound. My concern was a serious lack of low frequencies at lessened volumes. UPDATE: After a few days of rewiring, experimenting and researching I want to amend my post. First rather than fault the amp, I actually am finding the speakers to be the culprits in a single amp environment. I've never single amped them before and have now swapped the Emotiva out for several other amps with exact same results. Comparing apples to apples, the Emotiva XPA-3 GEN 2 is a relatively neutral amp with very little sonic signature. It conveys detail and soundstage nicely and accurately. It has broken in a bit now (over 100 constant) so it has improved. To address my initial concerns of lack of bass my speakers are rated at 26-26,000hz with a nominal impedance of 6 ohms and a minimum impedance of 3.1 ohms. Frankly regardless of how good any one amp is the speaker needs different power driving the lows than the mids and highs. In my opinion after 3 days non stop of this is that they must be bi amped to sound their best. The frequencies under 100hz require different power than 15khz. Now my question is which amp? Do I buy another XPA-3 gen2 one high one low or an XPA-2 low and keep my XPA-3 for highs? Do I sell my XPA-3 and buy a pair of XPA-2s for bi amping? Hmmmmm? Need your advice Personally sounds like way more trouble than it's worth. Bi-amping just to get acceptable high fi sound? I can understand bi amping to improve he sound, but not that it sounds rather so-so without bi amping. It's possible you may have something electrically wrong with the speakers or some sort of interaction with the amps or maybe even room setup that's causing your issues. Do you use a dedicated pre-amp? |
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Nov 20, 2014 20:55:00 GMT -5
I have a Musical Fidelity X-PRE tube pre amp with heavy modifications. I also swapped it out for a Marantz SR4600 receiver using the stereo preamp outs.
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Post by creimes on Nov 20, 2014 21:07:32 GMT -5
Four XPR-1's  |
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Post by creimes on Nov 20, 2014 21:10:01 GMT -5
XPA-2 for the lows and two XPA-1L's for the highs ?
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Post by solidstate on Nov 20, 2014 23:30:17 GMT -5
When I single amped the XPA-3 to the speakers I used the jumpers. The bass became present And more full at louder volumes but in general the sonic characteristic I experienced was a harsh And grainy exaggerated mids and highs. In the biAmp testing running the same amp to drive the highs I had the same results. When I used it strictly on the low end - Perfect. Just according to my listening preferences and ear of course. Time to buy better loudspeakers my friend. |
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Nov 20, 2014 23:44:37 GMT -5
When I single amped the XPA-3 to the speakers I used the jumpers. The bass became present And more full at louder volumes but in general the sonic characteristic I experienced was a harsh And grainy exaggerated mids and highs. In the biAmp testing running the same amp to drive the highs I had the same results. When I used it strictly on the low end - Perfect. Just according to my listening preferences and ear of course. Time to buy better loudspeakers my friend. the nht 2.9s just sound better bi amped. Not disagreeing with you that there are better speakers out there and that I am due an upgrade in the near future! |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 21, 2014 1:20:01 GMT -5
There are also other possibilites. But first, let me start by saying, I'm not trying to say that you didn't hear what you heard. I completely believe you. Just trying to rule out somethings. Your NHT's have a side firing bass woofer. PLUS they go down low. What that says to me is that it is possible, it may be where you are in the room coupled with a full range side firing speaker is causing strange effects. This isn't unheard of.
For instance you are using two different amps to bi amp right? The other amp may have a different sound signature that may balance out the thin sound that you heard when single amping. Either way, the original thin sound may be coming from a room speaker interaction.
You may want to play with your speakers positioning a little bit or try out some bass traps etc.
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Nov 21, 2014 12:06:14 GMT -5
There are also other possibilites. But first, let me start by saying, I'm not trying to say that you didn't hear what you heard. I completely believe you. Just trying to rule out somethings. Your NHT's have a side firing bass woofer. PLUS they go down low. What that says to me is that it is possible, it may be where you are in the room coupled with a full range side firing speaker is causing strange effects. This isn't unheard of. For instance you are using two different amps to bi amp right? The other amp may have a different sound signature that may balance out the thin sound that you heard when single amping. Either way, the original thin sound may be coming from a room speaker interaction. You may want to play with your speakers positioning a little bit or try out some bass traps etc. Yes when biamping I used an AMC Weltronics Stereo 2100 which is very laid back and smooth on the mids and highs. It has a rms output of only 100 watts. Thus, the gain is naturally higher on the XPA-3 and it was only fed frequencies 100hz and below. Because of this the XPA-3 gave great bass ans beautifully complemented the AMC 2100 by filling in where that amp left off. I have used several placement methods (sumiko master) and Cardas both which yeilded good but similar results which is why I'm led to make the conclusion that the nht's have different amp needs for the lows than the mids and highs. My thoughts now are to go dual differential XSP-1 g2 with two XPA-1 g2. If I still have similar results I will add two XPA-1ls for the mids and highs. Or I might scrap the whole idea and get better speakers but I must admit the 2.9s when properly amplified sound really nice. |
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Post by simpleman68 on Nov 21, 2014 12:34:22 GMT -5
Man, I wonder what my Studio 100s would sound like as a comparo; or even the Polks. It might help us rule out the speaker age/design issue.
Set 'em side by side and toggle the banana plugs. Maybe when I get back from VA for Turkey Day?
Scott
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Post by moko on Nov 21, 2014 17:02:19 GMT -5
My thoughts now are to go dual differential XSP-1 g2 with two XPA-1 g2. If I still have similar results I will add two XPA-1ls for the mids and highs. not a good idea. too much money spend on electronics won't lead to biggest improvements. yep, those speakers seem to give you headache since their arrival because of the difficulty to find suitable amps. sell them and xpa-3. keep the amc amp. there are good speakers from ID company with affordable price. start a thread for speakers suggestion with your budget. but for about the same price you can build your own speakers with better quality IF you have the design from well respected speaker designers. |
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Nov 21, 2014 21:06:19 GMT -5
Thanks Moko. Will start looking at new speaker options.
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Post by solidstate on Nov 21, 2014 23:51:14 GMT -5
Thanks Moko. Will start looking at new speaker options. I'd take a look at Ascend Acoustics and VapourSound. You should also consider DIY kits like the SEOS Waveguides at diysoundgroup. |
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