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Post by fbczar on Dec 1, 2014 8:18:37 GMT -5
According to the Emotiva Products Page the XMC-1 using Balanced input to Balanced output has a SNR od 123db. In Unbalanced output to Unbalanced input it has a measured SNR of 114db. Can any of you speak to the differences, if any, that you hear when switching from Unbalanced connection to Balanced connections with the XMC-1. For instance, are you using the XPA-1 or XPA-1L with the XMC-1 now vs any other Emotiva amp or an unbalance amp from another manufacturer? |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 1, 2014 8:43:47 GMT -5
Hi fbczar -
I can't answer your question regarding the XMC-1, since I don't own one, but I can speak to the balanced / unbalanced differences on the XSP-1 (generation 2) stereo preamplifier by Emotiva. To my ears, and with my equipment, the differences can be summed to a single word: none! Perhaps some listeners can tell the difference between the XLR and RCA circuitry, but to my ears, both are quiet, dynamic, and grain-free.
I currently run fully balanced from my source (Oppo BDP-105) to my amps (Emotiva XPA-1Ls). Prior to this, though, I ran RCA all the way. Both were perfect, so far as I could tell.
HOWEVER - All my interconnect runs are short (1 meter from Oppo to preamp, 2.5 meters from preamp to power amps). With longer runs, perhaps the theoretical advantages of the balanced circuitry would prevail? Not sure.
Boom
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Post by jjkessler on Dec 1, 2014 8:49:54 GMT -5
I am using all XLR connectors from Monoprice as they are fairly cheap compared to the cost of the gear and my main reason was the better connection into the devices as much as any sound advantage
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Post by Priapulus on Dec 1, 2014 8:52:09 GMT -5
I could hear no difference switching from RCA to XLR connectors; both were dead quiet. I changed because I thought the XLR connectors were more secure (and sexy). My XLR's were from Emotiva, and I'm pleased with them.
Sincerely
/b
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Post by fbczar on Dec 1, 2014 9:00:58 GMT -5
Hi fbczar - I can't answer your question regarding the XMC-1, since I don't own one, but I can speak to the balanced / unbalanced differences on the XSP-1 (generation 2) stereo preamplifier by Emotiva. To my ears, and with my equipment, the differences can be summed to a single word: none! Perhaps some listeners can tell the difference between the XLR and RCA circuitry, but to my ears, both are quiet, dynamic, and grain-free. I currently run fully balanced from my source (Oppo BDP-105) to my amps (Emotiva XPA-1Ls). Prior to this, though, I ran RCA all the way. Both were perfect, so far as I could tell. HOWEVER - All my interconnect runs are short (1 meter from Oppo to preamp, 2.5 meters from preamp to power amps). With longer runs, perhaps the theoretical advantages of the balanced circuitry would prevail? Not sure. Boom Any thoughts on a comparison between the new SA-250 vs two XPa-1L's? The SA-250 is a dual differential design and the XPA-1L is a quad differential design. The cost is similar. |
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Post by fbczar on Dec 1, 2014 9:05:34 GMT -5
Hi fbczar - I can't answer your question regarding the XMC-1, since I don't own one, but I can speak to the balanced / unbalanced differences on the XSP-1 (generation 2) stereo preamplifier by Emotiva. To my ears, and with my equipment, the differences can be summed to a single word: none! Perhaps some listeners can tell the difference between the XLR and RCA circuitry, but to my ears, both are quiet, dynamic, and grain-free. I currently run fully balanced from my source (Oppo BDP-105) to my amps (Emotiva XPA-1Ls). Prior to this, though, I ran RCA all the way. Both were perfect, so far as I could tell. HOWEVER - All my interconnect runs are short (1 meter from Oppo to preamp, 2.5 meters from preamp to power amps). With longer runs, perhaps the theoretical advantages of the balanced circuitry would prevail? Not sure. Boom Any thoughts on a comparison between the new SA-250 vs two XPa-1L's? The SA-250 is a dual differential design and the XPA-1L is a quad differential design. The cost is similar. |
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Post by ocezam on Dec 1, 2014 10:43:52 GMT -5
All my interconnect runs are short (1 meter from Oppo to preamp, 2.5 meters from preamp to power amps). With longer runs, perhaps the theoretical advantages of the balanced circuitry would prevail? Not sure. Boom I think most people would agree with this. The advantages of XLR probably can't be heard without L-O-N-G cable runs. However, since you can get good quality XLR cables so cheaply (monoprice), why not use them? I do. Any thoughts on a comparison between the new SA-250 vs two XPa-1L's? The SA-250 is a dual differential design and the XPA-1L is a quad differential design. The cost is similar. Ditto for the difference between dual differential and quad differential, probably can't tell the difference in actual use. I'd make this decision based on aesthetics, cost, weight, rack space, my mood, the alignment of the stars, etc. Having said that, you should buy the SA-250 since I don't know anyone who has. Then you can do a review and let us all know what you think. It's damn sure a SEXY looking amp. Just kidding, kinda.... |
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 1, 2014 10:59:56 GMT -5
I haven't heard the SA-250, so can't comment.
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Post by audiosyndrome on Dec 1, 2014 11:26:08 GMT -5
The XPA-1L is a fully balanced design. The SA-250 is not but is a real interesting looking unit.
Russ
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Post by hcsunshine90 on Dec 1, 2014 13:24:33 GMT -5
i could totally tell the difference when i switched to XLR from RCA connections. i was using the XSP-1 G2 with my UPA-1's and using RCA connections. the highs on my speakers weren't there enough to my liking. they didn't exactly cut through the air like they should. i then switched to monoprice XLR cables and the highs were better all of a sudden. problem solved with my speakers! i was so pleased and had no i idea the solution to my tweeter problem could be the type of connections the cables used were. then again, these RAAL tweeters are extremely acurate and therefore very revealing and aware of ANYTHING you put in front of them. and it never hurts to be lucky  |
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Post by ocezam on Dec 1, 2014 17:56:27 GMT -5
The XPA-1L is a fully balanced design. The SA-250 is not Yes. Therefore the questions and comments regarding dual differential vs. quad differential. |
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Post by michaelhifi on Dec 2, 2014 12:28:50 GMT -5
i could totally tell the difference when i switched to XLR from RCA connections. i was using the XSP-1 G2 with my UPA-1's and using RCA connections. the highs on my speakers weren't there enough to my liking. they didn't exactly cut through the air like they should. i then switched to monoprice XLR cables and the highs were better all of a sudden. problem solved with my speakers! i was so pleased and had no i idea the solution to my tweeter problem could be the type of connections the cables used were. then again, these RAAL tweeters are extremely acurate and therefore very revealing and aware of ANYTHING you put in front of them. and it never hurts to be lucky It will be interesting to me as I too have the Raal tweeters and an assortment of balanced and RCA cables to play with. However, in my very short audition using the HiDiamond RCA's L&R, I noted no roll-off on the Raals what so ever. I noted the rear surrounds sounded like nails on a blackboard using inferior RCA's and surround speakers. Need to return and find out why  |
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Post by tom on Dec 3, 2014 13:57:18 GMT -5
I have used balanced and unbalanced connections with the XSP-1, the XMC-1 and XPA-1 amplifiers. If the run is short, zero difference to my ears. IMHO, the value of balanced interconnects is noise rejection for longer runs. And there they can make a *huge* difference and really work. That's why every studio uses them.
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Post by audiosyndrome on Dec 3, 2014 16:52:08 GMT -5
The XPA-1L is a fully balanced design. The SA-250 is not Yes. Therefore the questions and comments regarding dual differential vs. quad differential.  ?? |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 3, 2014 21:23:41 GMT -5
Yes. Therefore the questions and comments regarding dual differential vs. quad differential. ?? I agree, whether it's dual differential or quad differential, it's still balanced.  Cheers Gary |
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Post by nickwin on Dec 4, 2014 11:19:54 GMT -5
In a recent email, Emotiva told me that with a digital input, the unbalanced outs will have about 6db less dynamic range than the balance outputs, so 104db vs 110. They said distortion will be about the same. My initial thought was that the difference between 104db and 110db DR should be noticeable with high rez sources, so I was going to swap out my RCAs for XLRs when I got my XMC1, but it sounds like you guys are saying that difference will probably not be noticeable? My RCAs are 1.5 meters in length.
This leads me to another question, if you can't hear the difference between 104db and 110db DNR, why do we even look at that specification? If you can't hear that difference its hard to imagine you could hear any difference between say 110db and 130db either. Is dynamic range a useless metric for most people once it gets beyond say 100db, which is well over what rebook cd can reproduce?
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Post by darien87 on Dec 4, 2014 11:38:07 GMT -5
I didn't try RCA's on my XMC but I used them on my UMC-1 and my previous Marantz processor. I switched to XLR's with the Marantz when trying to eliminate ground loop hum. Didn't hear any difference between the 2. But I stayed with the XLR's on the XMC because that's what I had connected, plus they're so damn cool looking.
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Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,435
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Post by Lsc on Dec 4, 2014 14:09:29 GMT -5
According to the Emotiva Products Page the XMC-1 using Balanced input to Balanced output has a SNR od 123db. In Unbalanced output to Unbalanced input it has a measured SNR of 114db. Can any of you speak to the differences, if any, that you hear when switching from Unbalanced connection to Balanced connections with the XMC-1. For instance, are you using the XPA-1 or XPA-1L with the XMC-1 now vs any other Emotiva amp or an unbalance amp from another manufacturer? I can hear the difference on my XDA-2. XMC-1 when I get it will be hooked up via balanced...the cost is so low from Monoprice so why not? |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 4, 2014 15:29:33 GMT -5
I have never ever heard any difference when doing a straight swap between RCA and XLR or vice versa. In an electronically noisy environment using XLRs can (but not always) remove the background noise. Ground loop hum is one where XLR's usually make no difference.
In regards to dynamic range in a pre/pro it's really only relevant when the other equipment and most importantly the source material can achieve it. For example CDs at 16 bit are capable of a theoretical 96db but I can't say as I have heard one over 90db and vinyl maxes out around 60 db. So in order for an XMC-1's dynamic range to be relevant, the rest of the equipment and the source material need to be able to utilise it.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by richardrc on Dec 4, 2014 16:00:52 GMT -5
Ground loop hum is one where XLR's usually make no difference. Cheers Gary On the contrary, this is were they shine. You must lift the ground to break the ground loop path. I have run 100m+ lengths of balanced leads as well as instrumentation cable with no ground noise. Regards |
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