WiFi for the XMC-1 and Dirac

[KeithL]

There has been significant interest in being able to connect your XMC-1 to the network using WiFi.

The short answer is that the XMC-1 will work with any network connection to your router that "acts like a wire". (Some access points do this by default, while others can be configured to act this way, and others simply cannot. The XMC-1 really DOES need to be on the SAME NETWORK as the computer you're using to run the Dirac software... which basically means it has to be connected to the same router. For example, you CAN connect both your XMC-1 and your computer to your cable modem / router, using any combination of wired and wireless; however, you CAN'T connect the XMC-1 to the hot spot on your phone, and your computer to your cable modem, because those two devices are not on the same network.)

As it turns out, there is a WiFi "access point" that we've used here successfully.... it is the IOGear GWU-627 .
(It's a little black box with an Ethernet connector on it.)

- We've used this in several different situations and it HAS worked successfully for us here and on the road.

- You WILL have to set it up for your network - following the manufacturer's directions.

- You DO need a strong wireless connection; if your connection is weak or intermittent, you will have problems.


If anybody wants to post anything about their success or failure with this method (or another one), this would be a good place to do it.

[geebo]

Jan 2, 2015 12:34:23 GMT -5 KeithL said:

There has been significant interest in being able to connect your XMC-1 to the network using WiFi.

The short answer is that the XMC-1 will work with any network connection to your router that "acts like a wire". (Some access points do this by default, while others can be configured to act this way, and others simply cannot. The XMC-1 really DOES need to be on the SAME NETWORK as the computer you're using to run the Dirac software... which basically means it has to be connected to the same router. For example, you CAN connect both your XMC-1 and your computer to your cable modem / router, using any combination of wired and wireless; however, you CAN'T connect the XMC-1 to the hot spot on your phone, and your computer to your cable modem, because those two devices are not on the same network.)

As it turns out, there is a WiFi "access point" that we've used here successfully.... it is the IOGear GWU-627 .
(It's a little black box with an Ethernet connector on it.)

- We've used this in several different situations and it HAS worked successfully for us here and on the road.

- You WILL have to set it up for your network - following the manufacturer's directions.

- You DO need a strong wireless connection; if your connection is weak or intermittent, you will have problems.


If anybody wants to post anything about their success or failure with this method (or another one), this would be a good place to do it.

I have an Asus router that has an option to configure it as a wireless bridge. My main router is another Asus and they communicate via Wireless AC and provides a very strong and fast wireless connection. I am also able to plug my Oppo 103 and my TV into the same device. Not the cheapest solution but a very good one that also works great for streaming from my WD Cloud drive that's connected to the main router.

[lbrown105]

I simply use the sharing in my PC which is wireless and run the ethernet out to the XMC-1. Works great. I had a little trouble at first but when I did the full XMC-1 shutoff for 10 seconds and turn the unit back on it worked fine. Dirac filters loaded just fine too.

[maggieguy]

If any of you are invested in the Apple ecosystem, I successfully added a second Airport Extreme to my existing wireless network (based on another 802.11AC Airport Extreme). Once you configure it (additional Airport Extreme base station) to extend an existing wireless network, the ethernet ports become extensions of that same set of IP addresses. My XMC-1 and other networked components are now connected to both the internet as well as my "home" network with zero complications.Took all of 3 minutes to setup. Might cost a bit more than the lower cost WiFi bridge products out there, but after several years of everything from ASUS to Hawking to D-Link, this just works and is rock solid 24-7-365!

[morfious]

If you have Verizon Fios MoCa is another option. I have my main router upstairs. That is connected via coax cable (MoCa) to my downstairs router which is working in bridge mode. I then have an 8 port switch hooked up to the downstairs router. The XMC-1 is hard wired into the 8 port switch. Worked fine without any issues or connection problems.

[Gary Cook]

Jan 4, 2015 0:23:16 GMT -5 maggieguy said:

If any of you are invested in the Apple ecosystem, I successfully added a second Airport Extreme to my existing wireless network (based on another 802.11AC Airport Extreme). Once you configure it (additional Airport Extreme base station) to extend an existing wireless network, the ethernet ports become extensions of that same set of IP addresses. My XMC-1 and other networked components are now connected to both the internet as well as my "home" network with zero complications.Took all of 3 minutes to setup. Might cost a bit more than the lower cost WiFi bridge products out there, but after several years of everything from ASUS to Hawking to D-Link, this just works and is rock solid 24-7-365!

I have similar, one AirPort Extreme in the home office hard wired to the cable modem and one at the other end of the house, in the rack with the audio gear using wifi. Ever so easy to set up and works seamlessly.

Happy New Year
Gary

[cawgijoe]

Jan 6, 2015 13:48:11 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

Jan 4, 2015 0:23:16 GMT -5 maggieguy said:

If any of you are invested in the Apple ecosystem, I successfully added a second Airport Extreme to my existing wireless network (based on another 802.11AC Airport Extreme). Once you configure it (additional Airport Extreme base station) to extend an existing wireless network, the ethernet ports become extensions of that same set of IP addresses. My XMC-1 and other networked components are now connected to both the internet as well as my "home" network with zero complications.Took all of 3 minutes to setup. Might cost a bit more than the lower cost WiFi bridge products out there, but after several years of everything from ASUS to Hawking to D-Link, this just works and is rock solid 24-7-365!

I have similar, one AirPort Extreme in the home office hard wired to the cable modem and one at the other end of the house, in the rack with the audio gear using wifi. Ever so easy to set up and works seamlessly.

Happy New Year
Gary

I have a dumb question. I currently have an Airport Express in my downstairs HT system. It's connected (hardwired) to my updstairs Verizon FIOS router. The main purpose was to extend/amplify my wifi signal. It does it's job and everyone is happy with the signal.

Would there be any advantage to replacing the Express with an Extreme? What would be the advantages/disadvantages?

Thanks for any input. I'm a newbie when is comes to this.

[Gary Cook]

The big advantage of the latest Extreme for me is the 802.11ac wifi, it's way faster, more than double in my case. Probably also helped by its vertical antenna array. It's noticeably faster even for devices not equipped with ac, but for devices with ac capability it's really fast. Other than cost of course I don't see a disadvantage, it is a little bigger than an Express though, especially taller. Extremes are also more configurable/controllable than Expresses, check out the Apple web site for details.


Happy New Year
Gary

[ekgajewski]

I was debating on loading the Dirac software into my HTPC or my laptop. I chose the laptop, but could not get the wireless to work. I too have two Asus routers in the "bridge" mode. They are the RT-N66U's. They work VERY well for streaming HD music from my Synology NAS. Back to the WiFi issues...

I could not "see" the XMC-1 from the laptop using wireless. I had to run a long RJ45 to the laptop to get it to work. Although it was plugged into the "slave" router, it was on the same LAN as the XMC-1. I'm not sure if it would have worked on the two different access points.

Just wanted to save anyone the trouble of trying to connect wireless. If wired is an option, it works.

[cawgijoe]

Wired is always the most robust connection method, however I used wireless with my laptop with no issues.
I have a very strong wireless signal in the family room.

[solidstate]

For the Dirac auto detection to work you'd think it uses the MAC address in the XMC-1. If you are bridging the PHY in the XMC-1 to a wireless radio I'd figure the wireless radio should support "transparent bridge mode" or what is called MAC address cloning so the wireless radio has the same MAC as the XMC-1.

By Dirac auto detection I mean the startup auto detection of the Dirac server (XMC-1) on the network/LAN. If you know the IP of the XMC-1 and it doesn't auto detect it then I'm sure you can just manually key the IP in anyway so you don't necessarily need MAC address cloning.

[ausman]

I think people need to realise to start migration to a proper network interface instead of doing ad hoc network connections either moca, wireless and eop, Poe and LAN you breed problems when you start using line of sight type connections opposed too proper internal network interface, ad hoc is okay for a short term solution with the amount of wireless interface we have in all devices sometime a quick becomes a burden as when you start loading up transiievers on top of 1 another you end up corruption of wifi signals.

My network setup consists of :

Ipad, 4-5 laptops, consoles (wii, wiiu, ps2, PS3, Xbox, xbox 360, 3 bd players, 2 TVs 1 demon avr.

To say the least I know what the benefit of wireless is though it can cause a lot more headaches than what it is worth running ac may improve the wifi network as a whole though reality is there is few optioins to day that will not benefit from it and becomes a waste. Of time to support as you are to hardware released withn the las couple of years though with exception to the Xbox one you will not be using it as the remaining console still onlt wireless n. And unle you are planning to mod your wifi in the console you will not benefit from it as for usb I doubt you will benefit on it unless you got usb3 or better as its interface..


As for firmware updates I would be inclined to use a static cable either usb or network jack as prime source of update...

[KeithL]

I don't know the exact details, but I believe the discovery between Dirac and the XMC-1 is done via UDP (so routing JUST TCP/IP isn't good enough, but you don't need to do anything with actual MAC addresses - luckily).

The main problem with WiFi is that it isn't "100% continuous". Let me explain that.... The Internet was designed with the idea that packets are going to be bouncing through many different routing points (think the difference between the way a package is delivered, being carried by lots of different people and even different means, and talking to someone directly who is standing next to you). Things like e-mail, and the TCP/IP protocol itself, were designed to "find a way to their destination" - lose a router; no problem; some of the packets will just go a different way. There are all sorts of mechanisms for making sure the packets get all the way to where they're going, to reassemble them if they arrive out of order, and to have packets that go missing replaced without bothering the user with the details. However, if you hold up a foot square piece of aluminum foil directly between your laptop and your WiFi router, it WILL block the signal... probably completely... connection lost. Luckily, most things like your web browser and your e-mail client will simply hesitate for a second or two and wait for the connection to come back. Even that YouTube video you're watching will probably be OK - because they buffer (store up) a few seconds of video to keep it playing if the feed stops for a few seconds. It used to be assumed that "a properly written Internet program" would be incredibly tolerant of brief lapses in connection; and, in fact, many will even automatically start up right where they left off if you turn the computer off for a few minutes... or even a few days. (Once I received an e-mail over five YEARS late; probably because someone pulled an old server where it had been "trapped" out of a closet and reconnected it... and it immediately "completed its mission" to deliver that e-mail.)

However, lots of modern programs are NOT like that. They require an actual solid connection that doesn't drop for more than a split second. This could be because, like high resolution video, it just isn't practical to wait for a few minutes of "safety padding" buffer content to download, and a nuisance to store it, or it could simply be because whoever wrote the program expected to have it run over a "solid local network" and simply didn't think about the alternative. Or, quite possibly, they decided that "if you don't have a rock solid super-fast connection it isn't going to play right anyway", so didn't go out of the way to ensure that it would work as well as it could with less.

Regardless of who you credit or blame, the point is that most things like Web browsers are very tolerant of the short few-second drop your WiFi experiences whenever someone with a metal clipboard walks in front of the router, or your microwave oven hits the right frequency to block reception for a few seconds, or you move that metal bookend to the wrong spot. And, with these sorts of programs, you're not going to get any indication whether your network has occasional (or not so occasional) dropouts or not. You should also be aware that, while a stronger signal usually means that your computer will be less likely to have problems, and you will be able to use your computer further from the router, even the strongest and fastest WiFi connection is no guarantee that certain types of things still won't break the connection from time to time (even the latest, fastest, most powerful routers are NOT 100% immune to drops). This is why, for an absolutely reliable connection, nothing beats an actual wire. Both Dirac and the XMC-1 are somewhat tolerant of lapses in connection over most of the time Dirac Live is running - but, if the connection drops completely, or drops at just the wrong time, the process will "break".

(I would certainly encourage anyone to try a WiFi connection, and it usually will work fine. However, if it doesn't, you're better off looking for a cable than spending a lot of time trying to figure out why your WiFi network isn't quite stable enough.)

Jan 19, 2015 20:30:55 GMT -5 solidstate said:

For the Dirac auto detection to work you'd think it uses the MAC address in the XMC-1. If you are bridging the PHY in the XMC-1 to a wireless radio I'd figure the wireless radio should support "transparent bridge mode" or what is called MAC address cloning so the wireless radio has the same MAC as the XMC-1.

By Dirac auto detection I mean the startup auto detection of the Dirac server (XMC-1) on the network/LAN. If you know the IP of the XMC-1 and it doesn't auto detect it then I'm sure you can just manually key the IP in anyway so you don't necessarily need MAC address cloning.

[meni]

I have a Raspberry PI 2 that carries a wireless dongle and is connected via WiFi. 
Its installed with OSMC that is a XBMC distribution that allows the root "/" file system to be mounted rw by default.

Using this configuration I am able to tether the wireless signal to the LAN Ethernet port that is connected to an 8 port switch that distributes wired network to my home theater components that lack wifi capabilities.
The signal is Ok. It streams most of the 720p and 1080p contents over NFS with no problem. 
My XMC-1 works well for Dirac profile uploads. 

You can find more details about this kind of solution here:

discourse.osmc.tv/t/unable-to-route-internet-traffic-from-wifi-to-ethernet-ready-tv-solved/985/2

[kmcintyre]

Lots of references to "fast" and "strong" signals. Can anyone quantify this a bit? Like run speedtest.org and record ping and upload/download speeds for good and bad wifi installs?

I really have no option other than wifi. My wifi is good enough for streaming HD movies, performing firmware updates, etc. It should be good enough for the XMC - IMO. (And I don't know that it's not. I haven't ordered mine yet. But this is disconcerting...)

Crap poor software design if the laptop can't cache the data (run disconnected from the internet) IMO. I.E. plug laptop into XNC. Collect data. Take laptop to a location with internet access. Upload to Dirac. Download filter file. Take laptop back to XMC. Plug laptop into XMC. Load filter settings. What if I want to use the XMC at my island resort or mountain cabin where the internet is not available?

Is it an internet or an intranet connection issue? I.E. can I plug the XMC and the laptop into a router that has no internet access and have it work?

Thanks

Keith

[geebo]

Apr 3, 2015 17:55:30 GMT -5 kmcintyre said:

Lots of references to "fast" and "strong" signals. Can anyone quantify this a bit? Like run speedtest.org and record ping and upload/download speeds for good and bad wifi installs?

I really have no option other than wifi. My wifi is good enough for streaming HD movies, performing firmware updates, etc. It should be good enough for the XMC - IMO. (And I don't know that it's not. I haven't ordered mine yet. But this is disconcerting...)

Crap poor software design if the laptop can't cache the data (run disconnected from the internet) IMO. I.E. plug laptop into XNC. Collect data. Take laptop to a location with internet access. Upload to Dirac. Download filter file. Take laptop back to XMC. Plug laptop into XMC. Load filter settings. What if I want to use the XMC at my island resort or mountain cabin where the internet is not available?

Is it an internet or an intranet connection issue? I.E. can I plug the XMC and the laptop into a router that has no internet access and have it work?

Thanks

Keith

If you can stream HD movies you should be just fine. And yes, you need internet to run Dirac. That's a Dirac requirement.

[kmcintyre]

Thanks, geebo. That gives me hope. I'll give it a try once I get the unit.

Also, any idea if Dirac will run on a dual-core Atom N550 netbook? Else I might need to buy a full laptop.

Cheers!

Keith

[Chuck Elliot]

I just saw Keith's note:

TCP or UDP are both different flavors of the next level above IP. It is the IP level that is responsible for packet routing regardless of the level used above it, TCP or UDP!

A big difference between UDP and TCP is that UDP is a blind transmit. UDP has no way to know if the packet got there or not. It relies on the application.

TCP, on the other hand, has a handshake which will generate an error if the receiver did not get the packet!

[donh50]

I am using a Linksys media bridge (WES610N) and it is working fine, AFTER tweaking it to work at 2.4 GHz only (in the setup menu via its web GUI). My XMC-1 is in my basement media room, and my wireless router is two floors up in my office with the main air plenums (ducts) between so the 5 GHz signal was middling. Works fine on my PC, and everything else (including a different media bridge across the hall tied to a NAS), but Dirac Live did not work well until I forced the connection to only use 2.4 GHz. The lower frequency does a better job of penetrating walls and such. At 2.4 GHz you may need to restrict the channels used as well (the channels in the 2.4 GHz band overlap and can interfere with each other; the ones in the 5 GHz band do not). You should be able to change the channel selection from "auto" to one of the fixed channels (1-11) in your wireless router.

I do have a wireless extender on the first floor but am not sure the XMC-1 works behind it. The only other strange thing is that, of all the devices on the network, the "simple name" does not show up for the XMC-1, just the address. I did set the router to fix the XMC-1's address but it was setting the mdeia bridge to use 2.4 GHz only that helped.

Not sure why the XMC-1 and DL is more sensitive to the wireless signal than everything else in the house but at least it is working great now.

[grapeape]

Ok so from someone who is in the apple ecosystem I have to say this was a frustrating experience. Turns out though it was a user/operating system error and not XMC/Dirac. I will say that the Dirac (Full) software would offer a little more functionality in trouble shooting or manual configuration of IP within the Dirac application. Also - entering user name and password every. single. time. gets old quick.

So here is what I did:

1) Used an Apple Airport Express (older version can be bought for $25 used) and then "joined existing wireless network." I am running an ASUS wireless router for my home so "extending existing network" did not work (from reading online it seems this option is only for use with an Apple wireless router, otherwise hard reset and start again).

2) Connected an ethernet cable between XMC-1 and Airport Express. Set XMC-1 to get its IP address via DHCP from Airport Express or configure as a static IP. I configured as static. Ensure the XMC-1 has an IP on same subnet as house router. For example, house router is handing out DHCP IPs 192.168.1.1 - 192.168.1.100. The XMC-1 must also have an IP that looks like 192.168.1.x, where x is a unique value less than 256. It is common for private networks to also use IPs like 10.10.10.x. These are different networks and they will not talk to each other for this application.

3) Even though I had confirmed that my laptop (mac book) and the XMC-1 were on the same network and that I could ping the XMC-1 (confirm its presence) I could not get the Dirac software to "see" it. Now one thing when running the Dirac software was the operating system asking me if the Dirac application should be allowed to accept incoming connections. I always answer yes and assumed that was all it needed. Even checking the firewall settings it appears all is in order:



I assumed it must be my laptop firewall refusing some connection. Still not sure what that would be as I would expect the Dirac software would be querying the local network and waiting for a reply from the XMC-1. Maybe this is happening on a port that is blocked.

4) ***This next step is a major security risk if you forget to undo it! If you do not have your home network behind a firewall (!) then this is an immediate security risk to your computer**** In a final attempt I disabled my operating system firewall. Reran the application and Dirac connected to my XMC-1. First calibrations are complete and now tweaking to commence. Sound is dramatically improved and balanced. The surround is actually scaring people

5) Remember to re-enable your firewall!!!!! If you connect to a public network with your firewall down then you're putting your computer, data, etc. at risk.

If anyone can advise on the firewall settings or perhaps what the communication handshake is between XMC and Dirac for acknowledgement it could help do this the right way. We shouldn't be disabling firewalls.