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Post by ansat on Jan 20, 2015 18:34:04 GMT -5
I reran Dirac a couple more times today. I suspect there's a serious room issue at around 170-180 Hz. Any comments/analyses are welcome. The first 5 charts are spectrum graphs and the last 4 are impulse. I didn't see any point in attaching an impulse graph for the sub. Note: I use only 1 sub in this configuration. You have something odd going on with your fronts. I think that it might be speaker related though, as the big dip falls right on the xover point.  Tony |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 20, 2015 19:07:50 GMT -5
I reran Dirac a couple more times today. I suspect there's a serious room issue at around 170-180 Hz. Any comments/analyses are welcome. The first 5 charts are spectrum graphs and the last 4 are impulse. I didn't see any point in attaching an impulse graph for the sub. Note: I use only 1 sub in this configuration. You have something odd going on with your fronts. I think that it might be speaker related though, as the big dip falls right on the xover point Tony I agree. I have the fronts set to small and crossed over at 80 Hz. I'll rerun Dirac again when I'm less tired and see if the results still correlate. I will certainly upgrade to Dirac Full when available. BTW, I find a lack of bass with Dirac. Of course when engaging "Loudness" I get bass. But not otherwise. Bass is working fine using Pre1 and Pre2.. |
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Post by ansat on Jan 20, 2015 20:09:49 GMT -5
You have something odd going on with your fronts. I think that it might be speaker related though, as the big dip falls right on the xover point Tony I agree. I have the fronts set to small and crossed over at 80 Hz. I'll rerun Dirac again when I'm less tired and see if the results still correlate. I will certainly upgrade to Dirac Full when available. BTW, I find a lack of bass with Dirac. Of course when engaging "Loudness" I get bass. But not otherwise. Bass is working fine using Pre1 and Pre2.. Are you biamping the fronts. If you can, I would test going reverse polarity on the lows, keeping the highs the same. (or vise - versa). The null really looks like its crossover cancellation and not at the fault of Dirac, microphone or calibration. Tony |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 20, 2015 20:33:48 GMT -5
I agree. I have the fronts set to small and crossed over at 80 Hz. I'll rerun Dirac again when I'm less tired and see if the results still correlate. I will certainly upgrade to Dirac Full when available. BTW, I find a lack of bass with Dirac. Of course when engaging "Loudness" I get bass. But not otherwise. Bass is working fine using Pre1 and Pre2.. Are you biamping the fronts. If you can, I would test going reverse polarity on the lows, keeping the highs the same. (or vise - versa). The null really looks like its crossover cancellation and not at the fault of Dirac, microphone or calibration. Tony Not biamping the fronts. I will recheck the crossover settings before running Dirac again. It's a really weird situation.  |
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Post by tubby on Jan 20, 2015 20:50:28 GMT -5
Are you biamping the fronts. If you can, I would test going reverse polarity on the lows, keeping the highs the same. (or vise - versa). The null really looks like its crossover cancellation and not at the fault of Dirac, microphone or calibration. Tony Not biamping the fronts. I will recheck the crossover settings before running Dirac again. It's a really weird situation. I think he means the internal speaker crossover not the XCM crossover setting. Dirac measures the speaker full range so the XMC crossover setting has no affect on that measurement. See the chart Tony posted of your speaker. |
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Post by ansat on Jan 20, 2015 20:56:07 GMT -5
Are you biamping the fronts. If you can, I would test going reverse polarity on the lows, keeping the highs the same. (or vise - versa). The null really looks like its crossover cancellation and not at the fault of Dirac, microphone or calibration. Tony Not biamping the fronts. I will recheck the crossover settings before running Dirac again. It's a really weird situation. I think my wording is a little confusing. Was at work when I wrote that. - I think that the problem is at the speakers crossover. Not the XMC's The pic I posted was the reference 100 v2. Your null just happens to be right at one of your crossover points and this could indicate that you have phase issue in your speaker. You could send that pic to paradigm and see what they recommend. Tony |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Jan 20, 2015 21:06:03 GMT -5
Not biamping the fronts. I will recheck the crossover settings before running Dirac again. It's a really weird situation. I think my wording is a little confusing. Was at work when I wrote that. - I think that the problem is at the speakers crossover. Not the XMC's The pic I posted was the reference 100 v2. Your null just happens to be right at one of your crossover points and this could indicate that you have phase issue in your speaker. You could send that pic to paradigm and see what they recommend. Tony I got that. I'll try swapping the left and right speakers and rerun Dirac. If the results are the same then I may have to contact Paradigm. |
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Post by manonfire on Jan 29, 2015 9:58:20 GMT -5
Anyone have any suggestions on how clean up the center speaker resopnse.   |
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Post by Priapulus on Jan 29, 2015 10:20:48 GMT -5
> BTW, I find a lack of bass with Dirac. Of course when engaging "Loudness" I get bass. But not otherwise. Bass is working fine using Pre1 and Pre2..
I've also had a lack of bass with Dirac. I'd written off as their house curve preference. It's the deep bass missing, fundamental of the organ pedal 32-63 hz (as if the sub was dead; but the sub is working fine); others may not notice.
But a couple of days ago I was playing with Dirac, and the XMC-1 mainzone/trims/tone/bass, and suddenly the bass was there. Bass was there even though mainzone/trims/tone/bass was returned to zero dB. I was delighted, everything sounded normal again, just cleaner and better. Just as Dirac advertised.
Sadly, the next day when I powered up the XMC-1, it had reverted to the bassless state again. I'm beginning to suspect that it isn't a Dirac issue; perhaps it is an XMC software bass management issue, or even a hardware fault in the XMC. I get the bass back by simply changing speaker preset from Dirac to #1.
Since my one good bass day, I've experimented with all the settings and with Dirac but haven't been able to replicate the good-bass day. Next I think I'm going to try a hard reset of the XMC-1, and firmware reinstall, and start over from scratch.
I find when engaging "Loudness" I get bass, but too much in the mid/upper bass range, making the music very muddy. Does anyone else find the "loudness" boost to be too much?
Sincerely /b
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Post by geebo on Jan 29, 2015 10:29:05 GMT -5
> BTW, I find a lack of bass with Dirac. Of course when engaging "Loudness" I get bass. But not otherwise. Bass is working fine using Pre1 and Pre2..
I've also had a lack of bass with Dirac. I'd written off as their house curve preference. It's the deep bass missing, fundamental of the organ pedal 32-63 hz (as if the sub was dead; but the sub is working fine); others may not notice.
But a couple of days ago I was playing with Dirac, and the XMC-1 mainzone/trims/tone/bass, and suddenly the bass was there. Bass was there even though mainzone/trims/tone/bass was returned to zero dB. I was delighted, everything sounded normal again, just cleaner and better. Just as Dirac advertised.
Sadly, the next day when I powered up the XMC-1, it had reverted to the bassless state again. I'm beginning to suspect that it isn't a Dirac issue; perhaps it is an XMC software bass management issue, or even a hardware fault in the XMC. I get the bass back by simply changing speaker preset from Dirac to #1.
Since my one good bass day, I've experimented with all the settings and with Dirac but haven't been able to replicate the good-bass day. Next I think I'm going to try a hard reset of the XMC-1, and firmware reinstall, and start over from scratch.
I find when engaging "Loudness" I get bass, but too much in the mid/upper bass range, making the music very muddy. Does anyone else find the "loudness" boost to be too much?
Sincerely /b
I had good luck simply by increasing the subwoofer levels in the Dirac preset. They stay set when you turn the XMC off and back on unlike the tone controls. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 29, 2015 10:50:50 GMT -5
I'm a little confused at this question.... The center speaker shows worse "before" response than the other speakers (which is what Dirac is there to fix). In general, it's not unusual for center channels to be worse than main channels (if the speakers are part of the same "product line"). If the center has two drivers reproducing the same frequency range (like two midranges or woofers side by side), then it's pretty common for them to interact, and to produce a "comb response" as you move from left to right. It's up to the speaker designer to help minimize this - usually by adjusting the crossover so the two drivers DON'T cover exactly the same frequency range. You also may have a situation where there are more floor or ceiling interactions with the center, either because it is located closer to one or the other (because it's above or below a screen), or simply because of how it relates to things like open floor space in the room. (Among other things, it's often located symmetrically between the two side walls - whereas the side speakers are not.) Finally, some models of centers are simply optimized to deliver clear voice, while others are designed to fit into a specific size profile, and they may be designed to do either or both at the expense of a flat measured frequency response. (For all these reasons, centers are often more affected by where you sit, or where you put the microphone, than stereo main speakers). |
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Post by manonfire on Jan 29, 2015 12:29:54 GMT -5
Dirac cleaned and flattened the response up. i was just more so wondering about center response because thought it could hang with fronts a little more than it does from 150 and down. but your are probably correct, its more than likely the crossover because when i had center channel sitting flat i had basicly the same response as i do now with it angled up with some door stops. I can say the center no longer sounds boxy and thin, but fuller and voices sound more natural. overall i am pleased with what its done. Took some getting used to hearing flat but it all sounds good. Attachments:
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Post by ansat on Jan 29, 2015 19:49:45 GMT -5
Dirac cleaned and flattened the response up. i was just more so wondering about center response because thought it could hang with fronts a little more than it does from 150 and down. but your are probably correct, its more than likely the crossover because when i had center channel sitting flat i had basicly the same response as i do now with it angled up with some door stops. I can say the center no longer sounds boxy and thin, but fuller and voices sound more natural. overall i am pleased with what its done. Took some getting used to hearing flat but it all sounds good. View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentEverything in that picture is a hard reflective surface. You could clean that up a little with a rug and possible moving around that table. Play around a little. Tony |
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Post by barrak on Jan 30, 2015 16:45:57 GMT -5
Dirac cleaned and flattened the response up. i was just more so wondering about center response because thought it could hang with fronts a little more than it does from 150 and down. but your are probably correct, its more than likely the crossover because when i had center channel sitting flat i had basicly the same response as i do now with it angled up with some door stops. I can say the center no longer sounds boxy and thin, but fuller and voices sound more natural. overall i am pleased with what its done. Took some getting used to hearing flat but it all sounds good. You forgot to finger-paint your SS# on the table as well.  |
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Post by thompson12 on Jan 30, 2015 20:22:52 GMT -5
Dirac cleaned and flattened the response up. i was just more so wondering about center response because thought it could hang with fronts a little more than it does from 150 and down. but your are probably correct, its more than likely the crossover because when i had center channel sitting flat i had basicly the same response as i do now with it angled up with some door stops. I can say the center no longer sounds boxy and thin, but fuller and voices sound more natural. overall i am pleased with what its done. Took some getting used to hearing flat but it all sounds good. You forgot to finger-paint your SS# on the table as well. All we really need is the three digit code |
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Post by usxplong on Feb 27, 2015 13:30:54 GMT -5
How can I change speaker cross-overs in Dirac preset?
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Post by ansat on Feb 28, 2015 8:57:06 GMT -5
How can I change speaker cross-overs in Dirac preset? when you select dirac in the speaker setup menu, it will give you the option to set your xover. Tony |
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Post by usxplong on Feb 28, 2015 17:19:48 GMT -5
How can I change speaker cross-overs in Dirac preset? when you select dirac in the speaker setup menu, it will give you the option to set your xover. Tony Thanks. |
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Post by nickwin on Mar 28, 2015 19:56:41 GMT -5
I ran Dirac for the first time today (full version). It sounds really good in a lot of ways, but the bass, lower mids seemed off to me. Ran a couple quick measurements with REW and this is what I got. I set up my subwoofer target curve to rise 5db between 80 and 20 hz. My cross over is 100hz. To me it looks like Dirac over compensated in the 100-300hz range and set the subwoofer level to low. Whats going on, should I remeasure? The first graph is dirac exactly how it came out and the second is with 5.5db added to the sub. Attachments:
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Post by bluescale on Mar 29, 2015 20:53:21 GMT -5
I ran Dirac for the first time today (full version). It sounds really good in a lot of ways, but the bass, lower mids seemed off to me. Ran a couple quick measurements with REW and this is what I got. I set up my subwoofer target curve to rise 5db between 80 and 20 hz. My cross over is 100hz. To me it looks like Dirac over compensated in the 100-300hz range and set the subwoofer level to low. Whats going on, should I remeasure? The first graph is dirac exactly how it came out and the second is with 5.5db added to the sub. Have you tried tweaking the distance to see if you can find a smoother response at the crossover point? If you smooth out the crossover before running Dirac, it might not have to compensate as much. That said, it doesn't look horrible to me after you boosted the sub level. How does it sound with the +5.5? Also, have you used and SPL meter to verify the levels? I found that after running Dirac LE (still waiting on the key for the full version), my speakers were not level matched, with the biggest problem being my sub. Edit: I generally use the SPL meter within REW rather than my RS meter since I can use a calibrated mic with REW. Edit #2: I just remembered that distance is removed when you run Dirac.  |
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