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Post by ansat on Feb 6, 2015 13:20:19 GMT -5
Add me to the camp that says thanks to CS, Tony and Socketman! I just got done rerunning Dirac LE with the CS file and my initial impressions are the sound is way more to my liking. I have bass again and my highs are tamed. My graphs look much better, no huge dip after 10k. And my bass is back. Not quite as much as I like, but enough that I think I'm happy with what I have knowing I can tweak it once we get the full Dirac version. I just hope this full Dirac version is truly the real Dirac and not an Emotiva version of Dirac that takes some of the functionality of the full Dirac version away. 1. Mains Emo Cal FIle 2. Mains CS Cal File 3. Sub Emo Cal File 4. Mains CS Cal File Where can I get CS's file from? It's in my signature |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 6, 2015 13:44:09 GMT -5
He said they will provide a generic calibration file for the EMM-1 that can be used with the full version of Dirac for the XMC. No matter what I would buy a calibrated UMIK-1 from CSL or send your EMM-1 off to them for a calibration. If the mics are as consistent as Keith said they are then the cal file I had done at Cross Spectrum will work fine. You will still only need the narrow band 90deg file for use with dirac full. I actually bought a second mic and sent it to Cross Spectrum to speed things up. The new mic will be here in a couple of weeks and I will compare the 2 when it arrives. I see no reason I could not compare 2 identical mics to each other using REW. Dude, how may mics do you have?  |
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Post by socketman on Feb 6, 2015 13:57:46 GMT -5
I start out buying an behringer but I wanted calibrated so I bought a UMIK-1 , then I got one with the XMC and then I ordered one which dan gave me a smoking deal on. I live in the Yukon so shipping mine out and having it calibrated made no sense. It would be 2 weeks each way plus calibration so I saved on shipping etc plus fooling around with forms to not pay duty sending it south.
Richard
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 6, 2015 14:27:01 GMT -5
Lonnie, just so I understand what you are saying, the file you have provided is not accurate for off axis, but correct me if I am wrong, since we are using 9 different measurements aren't most of those readings off axis from one speaker or another? Why would you not give us an accurate off axis file to begin with, if it more Acurate? Why do we have to spend $100.00 to get an accurate filter. (I planed on getting it anyway). Why when Tony started this thread you dident just explain what you just explained, it would have saved a lot time for a group of people who love you products? I agree, unless we are taking measurements with the mic not oriented vertically - the 90 degree off-axis file appears to be the best and most logical one to use. Perpendicular to the speaker in most cases (surrounds may be a little different). I'm not getting the full version. I hate running Dirac (opposite of Tony/Ansat)...it's a chore and a necessary evil. I take even less pleasure reading graphs except to validate that everything looks normal. But I'm thankful that Ansat is not like me and was able to provide help to extract the most out of my XMC-1. I just the want the off-axis calibration file from Emotiva to see if it squeezes out a little more awesomeness from my system. If not, my current calibration setup will do and it's just flat out superb! Imaging is so stable and dead center...bass is tight but powerful, mids liquid smooth, highs are pristine. It's down right scary to watch movies in my room now w/ the volume turned up. Music gives me the "you are there" experience. I'm shocked that not everyone has tried this CS file yet. You don't know what you are missing. I'll post my graphs tonight, if I get a break from listening to the best sound my system has ever produced. |
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Post by socketman on Feb 6, 2015 17:26:08 GMT -5
Spent 2.5 hours today working with Dirac and now it sounds darn good to my ears. The input gain and output levels are so very important. I highly advise following Tony's positioning suggestions, they worked great for me. Keep the mic away from reflective surfaces is very important so you don't get frequency spikes. My couch is against a wall on the right side so I made a fake sweet spot that was more in the center of the room from left to right and moved the mic from there. Outside noises are the biggest pains, it got real cold in here, had the furnace off for all that time it was 15deg in the house when I was done . I have to say I am way happier with the CS cal file than what came with Dirac, your mileage may vary.
Richard
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 6, 2015 17:31:29 GMT -5
DON'T use a different calibration file JUST to boost the levels. The Dirac preset currently normalizes its gain levels based on the most efficient speaker, which often results in a much lower output gain after Dirac is run; we have changed this in the next version of firmware that will be released for the XMC-1 and, in that version, the gain after running Dirac will remain closer to what it was before Dirac was run. Tony, Using your file which boosts the readings by as much as 10db in the hi frequencies, one would assume then, that Dirac will not try to boost the hi frequencies by that much, will we see greater headroom in our volume, quite a few people have complained about lack of headroom.
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Post by KeithL on Feb 6, 2015 17:48:43 GMT -5
The combination of the microphone and THAT calibration file is specific.... We're not planning on changing the microphone itself.... and the new calibration file to use it with Dirac Full for Emotiva will be free.... Really.... Jeeez.....  It would seem that if I read Lonnies reply correctly the EMM-1 is specific to their version of Dirac. If that is the case anyone upgrading will then have to purchase a different calibrated microphone that will work with the full version of Dirac. So another 100 for Dirac full and another 100 for a calibrated Mic plus shipping, hmmm . |
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Post by Jim on Feb 6, 2015 17:58:39 GMT -5
Well, I for one find it troubling how many people still don't see the problem after seeing it illustrated with Tony's graphs and all the data.
You can't take a calibration, use it on a different axis and say "it's all good, move along". But that's the response I'm reading.
Am I off base here? I've been on vacation.
This is a black and white issue. Either the calibration is correct or it's not. The data argues that the included calibration being wrong.
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Post by socketman on Feb 6, 2015 18:16:48 GMT -5
The combination of the microphone and THAT calibration file is specific.... We're not planning on changing the microphone itself.... and the new calibration file to use it with Dirac Full for Emotiva will be free.... Really.... Jeeez..... It would seem that if I read Lonnies reply correctly the EMM-1 is specific to their version of Dirac. If that is the case anyone upgrading will then have to purchase a different calibrated microphone that will work with the full version of Dirac. So another 100 for Dirac full and another 100 for a calibrated Mic plus shipping, hmmm . My Bad, I missed the part where Emotiva would be providing a different calibration file to use with the full version of Dirac. I admit my reading and comprehension skills are weak. I can admit when I am wrong  Richard |
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Post by rswood on Feb 6, 2015 18:46:24 GMT -5
DON'T use a different calibration file JUST to boost the levels. The Dirac preset currently normalizes its gain levels based on the most efficient speaker, which often results in a much lower output gain after Dirac is run; we have changed this in the next version of firmware that will be released for the XMC-1 and, in that version, the gain after running Dirac will remain closer to what it was before Dirac was run. Tony, Using your file which boosts the readings by as much as 10db in the hi frequencies, one would assume then, that Dirac will not try to boost the hi frequencies by that much, will we see greater headroom in our volume, quite a few people have complained about lack of headroom. I was asking the question that as a side benifit, theoretically if you wanted to use Tony cal file, would we get more head room. Reading between the line on your response, Yes the headroom would be improved. But it sounds like Emotiva has all these issues covered in the rollout of new firmware and upgrade. So where is the rollout? It has been a loooong time since one of you said it will be out Soon. Did I mention, it's been a loooong time. |
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Post by usxplong on Feb 6, 2015 19:02:52 GMT -5
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Post by socketman on Feb 6, 2015 19:19:15 GMT -5
DON'T use a different calibration file JUST to boost the levels. The Dirac preset currently normalizes its gain levels based on the most efficient speaker, which often results in a much lower output gain after Dirac is run; we have changed this in the next version of firmware that will be released for the XMC-1 and, in that version, the gain after running Dirac will remain closer to what it was before Dirac was run. Tony, Using your file which boosts the readings by as much as 10db in the hi frequencies, one would assume then, that Dirac will not try to boost the hi frequencies by that much, will we see greater headroom in our volume, quite a few people have complained about lack of headroom. Keith , once we get the new firmware, will we have rerun Dirac since you will be altering gain level with the firmware. ?? |
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Post by Lsc on Feb 6, 2015 19:49:04 GMT -5
Here are my measurements. 1. Emotiva's not off-axis file 2. Socketman's CS calibration file As you can see both measurements are similar and they both provide good results. The CS file does provide slightly better results as you can predict from how the calibration line intersects with the frequency response. Comments are welcome but I think I'll stick w/ the CS file . Attachments:
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Post by htguy on Feb 6, 2015 20:13:15 GMT -5
The combination of the microphone and THAT calibration file is specific.... We're not planning on changing the microphone itself.... and the new calibration file to use it with Dirac Full for Emotiva will be free.... Really.... Jeeez..... It would seem that if I read Lonnies reply correctly the EMM-1 is specific to their version of Dirac. If that is the case anyone upgrading will then have to purchase a different calibrated microphone that will work with the full version of Dirac. So another 100 for Dirac full and another 100 for a calibrated Mic plus shipping, hmmm . Hi Keith, Ok. So once we upgrade to DIRAC full we will get a new calibration file. However will that file be specific to each person mic? If yes how so? |
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Post by socketman on Feb 6, 2015 20:46:57 GMT -5
It wont be specific to any one microphone. As keith has said before all their mics are tested to be within a certain tolerance so one file can be used by all EMM-1 microphones. If you want a per mic cal then you will have to pop for a mic like the UMIK-1 from cross spectrum.
Richard
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Post by ansat on Feb 6, 2015 20:47:45 GMT -5
The combination of the microphone and THAT calibration file is specific.... We're not planning on changing the microphone itself.... and the new calibration file to use it with Dirac Full for Emotiva will be free.... Really.... Jeeez..... Hi Keith, Ok. So once we upgrade to DIRAC full we will get a new calibration file. However will that file be specific to each person mic? If yes how so? It will be a general calibration. But I really don't think that a general calibration is a problem at all. my microphone is a little different then everyone elses and people are getting good results using my cal. Mine is no better then another general calibration. As long as the general cal is -+1.5 db and calibrated for off axis, then I do not think there is anything to worry about. Tony |
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Post by Jim on Feb 6, 2015 20:52:20 GMT -5
The combination of the microphone and THAT calibration file is specific.... We're not planning on changing the microphone itself.... and the new calibration file to use it with Dirac Full for Emotiva will be free.... Really.... Jeeez..... It would seem that if I read Lonnies reply correctly the EMM-1 is specific to their version of Dirac. If that is the case anyone upgrading will then have to purchase a different calibrated microphone that will work with the full version of Dirac. So another 100 for Dirac full and another 100 for a calibrated Mic plus shipping, hmmm . Will the calibration file that is provided be a correct one that matches the recommended placement axis and be flat? Or is that a "really.....geez" question? I wonder how many people are going to use the full version with a real trustworthy calibration (CSL or others) and just be done with it. I don't understand why Emotiva is still beating around the bush. At the absolute very least say "hey, we did a house curve..... So don't expect flat" never mind the axis data looking all wrong |
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Post by socketman on Feb 6, 2015 21:07:19 GMT -5
The combination of the microphone and THAT calibration file is specific.... We're not planning on changing the microphone itself.... and the new calibration file to use it with Dirac Full for Emotiva will be free.... Really.... Jeeez..... Will the calibration file that is provided be a correct one that matches the recommended placement axis and be flat? Or is that a "really.....geez" question? I wonder how many people are going to use the full version with a real trustworthy calibration (CSL or others) and just be done with it. I don't understand why Emotiva is still beating around the bush. At the absolute very least say "hey, we did a house curve..... So don't expect flat" never mind the axis data looking all wrong I cant comment on anything except that I read Lonnie said there would be a new 90deg file when the full version comes out. |
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Post by Jim on Feb 6, 2015 21:22:38 GMT -5
Will the calibration file that is provided be a correct one that matches the recommended placement axis and be flat? Or is that a "really.....geez" question? I wonder how many people are going to use the full version with a real trustworthy calibration (CSL or others) and just be done with it. I don't understand why Emotiva is still beating around the bush. At the absolute very least say "hey, we did a house curve..... So don't expect flat" never mind the axis data looking all wrong I cant comment on anything except that I read Lonnie said there would be a new 90deg file when the full version comes out. Hopefully they'll make that available to everyone. Thanks for mentioning it. I just wish that there would be some honest dialogue. Data doesn't lie. I think that some comments that have been posted don't actually respond to the technical questions at hand. |
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Post by geebo on Feb 6, 2015 22:02:32 GMT -5
This morning I did a DIRAC re-run. I slightly changed the measurement positions (a bit closer to the main spot) and I reduced the MIC sensitivity and hence increased the test tone output a bit more compared to previous measurements. Here are the results (only showing the front speakers). CROSS SPECTRUM CAL FILE:  I can conclude that the result of the CS CAL file resembles more to original output level of the speakers, especially in the higher frequencies. First listening results is that I liked the sound of DIRAC with CS CAL file a bit more. There is some more deep bass and the higher frequencies are bit less prominent. For the time being I'll keep the calibration with the CS CAL file. Just I bit strange is the small "dip" around 600 Hz in the spectrum before correction. You can see that the CS CAL file data has a slight change in sensitivity in that area. Strange. Anxiously waiting for the DIRAC Full version. Probably I'll sent my EMM-1 mic to Cross Spectrum for calibration (if shipping costs to and from USA - NL are not to crazy.). Again very big thanks to everybody who have contributed to make this happen. The full version should allow you to use any calibrated mic. With shipping overseas. It might be cheaper to pick up one of their umik microphones. Tony Okay, this is the result using the CS calibration, right? Is there really a spike in your speakers of about +8db from to 12 to 20kHz before Dirac? |
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