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Post by DavidR on Apr 3, 2015 17:55:03 GMT -5
I've been intrigued by the SA-250 since it was made available. However, I had recently bought a new XPA-2 Gen2 and love it in my AR90 system. I had sold my modified Carver M-1.0t (more watts) for the XPA-2 and never looked back. Now I've been wondering if I should sell all my modded Carver gear (I'd keep the tuners) and put the XPA-2 on the HT system and an SA-250 on the AR90s.
Now my question is: would the SA-250 sound THAT much better than the XPA-2?
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Post by flatpicker on Apr 3, 2015 19:33:17 GMT -5
I've been intrigued by the SA-250 since it was made available. However, I had recently bought a new XPA-2 Gen2 and love it in my AR90 system. I had sold my modified Carver M-1.0t (more watts) for the XPA-2 and never looked back. Now I've been wondering if I should sell all my modded Carver gear (I'd keep the tuners) and put the XPA-2 on the HT system and an SA-250 on the AR90s. Now my question is: would the SA-250 sound THAT much better than the XPA-2? I'm interested to see the response you get... I have them both, but currently can't deploy everything due to a construction project... but when I got my first SA-250, I turned around and got a second one... mainly because of my impression of the bass end of what I was hearing and I like it that I can carry it upstairs a lot better than the XPA-2... and I seem to move things around a lot sometimes. When I get done building my new woodworking/woodturning space, I'll be able to A-B them a lot better.
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Post by DavidR on Apr 3, 2015 19:39:27 GMT -5
The XPA-2 has great bass even at low volume. I was missing bass at low volume with the Carver and the bass while really diving them is much better with the XPA-2.
I'm even considering getting an XSP-1 preamp with an SA-250 and keeping the Rotel with the XPA-2. The Rotel sounds better than my modified Carver C-1. That config would allow me to use balanced connectors.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 3, 2015 20:29:18 GMT -5
An XSP-1 would be a very good addition. Sorry, I couldn't tell you about the sound difference between the two amps.
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Post by rocky500 on Apr 3, 2015 20:32:41 GMT -5
I went for the SA-250 over a XPA-2 and one of the factors was Weight, as flatpicker mentions. My back is not that good anymore. Looks to have lots of power, is slimmer to fit in my rack easier and it is lighter, easier to move around when need be. I am sure you would find either of them excellent.
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Post by DavidR on Apr 3, 2015 21:05:04 GMT -5
An XSP-1 would be a very good addition. Sorry, I couldn't tell you about the sound difference between the two amps. I would have bought an XSP-1 long ago if it didn't have the HT stuff.
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Post by rvsixer on Apr 4, 2015 6:11:07 GMT -5
I would have bought an XSP-1 long ago if it didn't have the HT stuff. The XSP-1 is purpose made to integrate with HT (use the XSP and the AVR/processor with your current mains and subs).
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Post by DavidR on Apr 4, 2015 8:48:55 GMT -5
I would have bought an XSP-1 long ago if it didn't have the HT stuff. The XSP-1 is purpose made to integrate with HT (use the XSP and the AVR/processor with your current mains and subs). Which is why I haven't bought one. I'm a 2-channel dinosaur and I don't use subs as my speakers go low.
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Post by seppo on Apr 4, 2015 19:30:34 GMT -5
I have been very happy with SA-250, as you might have read in the main SA-250 thread. I have not heard XPA-2 but based on what Lonnie said in the Podcast, I would expect to hear a difference between these two amps. On the Audiokarma Infinity forums someone just recently got Infinity RS-II's (3 Ohm nominal dipping down to 2 Ohm, low 86 dB sensitivity, rated for 250 W, i.e. quite a difficult load) and was able to put his XPA-2 in protection driving the RS-II's. Now, SA-250 drives my RS-II's beautifully and w/o a sweat to insanely loud levels. So that indicates to me that these two amps have material differences. Moreover, this person on the AK forum then upgraded to Parasound A-21, and said that this was a huge improvement in sound quality. flatpicker I am very interested to hear about your A-B comparison.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 4, 2015 19:35:45 GMT -5
The XSP-1 is purpose made to integrate with HT (use the XSP and the AVR/processor with your current mains and subs). Which is why I haven't bought one. I'm a 2-channel dinosaur and I don't use subs as my speakers go low. Though the XSP-1 has an HT bypass feature (which is activated on its own circuit path separated by a relay from the rest of the system), in terms of 2 channel....this is indeed meant for a two channel dinosaur which I myself am! The 2 channel has a separated signal path which if you do not use subs goes in a sort of "pure" mode I forgot what the name for it is and provides a fully balanced signal path. Nobody that has heard it can deny the sound is fantastic If this is what is stopping you, don't you worry a thing about it!
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Post by DavidR on Apr 4, 2015 20:11:27 GMT -5
Thanks Garbulky. I will probably bite the bullet sooner or later (i.e. next sale), however, I think about what they could have done without HT in a pre. You're still paying for electronics that will never be used.
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Post by pallpoul on Apr 4, 2015 21:17:10 GMT -5
So what is the advantage of the SA 250 over XPA-2,? I have an XPA-2 GEn-2 and love it, what is the increased cost for with the SA-250
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Post by pedrocols on Apr 4, 2015 23:04:30 GMT -5
So what is the advantage of the SA 250 over XPA-2,? I have an XPA-2 GEn-2 and love it, what is the increased cost for with the SA-250 I doubt there is an advantage....
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Post by DavidR on Apr 5, 2015 8:06:56 GMT -5
So what is the advantage of the SA 250 over XPA-2,? I have an XPA-2 GEn-2 and love it, what is the increased cost for with the SA-250 I doubt there is an advantage.... Thanks for the feedback but I was interested in SQ and performance.
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Post by DavidR on Apr 5, 2015 8:17:42 GMT -5
I have been very happy with SA-250, as you might have read in the main SA-250 thread. I have not heard XPA-2 but based on what Lonnie said in the Podcast, I would expect to hear a difference between these two amps. On the Audiokarma Infinity forums someone just recently got Infinity RS-II's (3 Ohm nominal dipping down to 2 Ohm, low 86 dB sensitivity, rated for 250 W, i.e. quite a difficult load) and was able to put his XPA-2 in protection driving the RS-II's. Now, SA-250 drives my RS-II's beautifully and w/o a sweat to insanely loud levels. So that indicates to me that these two amps have material differences. Moreover, this person on the AK forum then upgraded to Parasound A-21, and said that this was a huge improvement in sound quality. flatpicker I am very interested to hear about your A-B comparison. Most people say there's an improvement in the bass. AR9 and 90s are a difficult load for amps but not as bad as RS-IIs. Hard to believe there was a "huge improvement in sound quality". The Parasound looks like a lightweight compared to either Emo amp. The SA-250 has a much bigger capacitance per channel vs the XPA-2; and its almost two monoblocks in one chassis (had they used two xfmr's like a Rotel RB1090 instead of dual secondary windings xfmr) I guess I'm looking for an excuse to ditch my modded carver gear and move on up.
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Post by seppo on Apr 5, 2015 9:26:50 GMT -5
I have been very happy with SA-250, as you might have read in the main SA-250 thread. I have not heard XPA-2 but based on what Lonnie said in the Podcast, I would expect to hear a difference between these two amps. On the Audiokarma Infinity forums someone just recently got Infinity RS-II's (3 Ohm nominal dipping down to 2 Ohm, low 86 dB sensitivity, rated for 250 W, i.e. quite a difficult load) and was able to put his XPA-2 in protection driving the RS-II's. Now, SA-250 drives my RS-II's beautifully and w/o a sweat to insanely loud levels. So that indicates to me that these two amps have material differences. Moreover, this person on the AK forum then upgraded to Parasound A-21, and said that this was a huge improvement in sound quality. flatpicker I am very interested to hear about your A-B comparison. Most people say there's an improvement in the bass. AR9 and 90s are a difficult load for amps but not as bad as RS-IIs. Hard to believe there was a "huge improvement in sound quality". The Parasound looks like a lightweight compared to either Emo amp. The SA-250 has a much bigger capacitance per channel vs the XPA-2; and its almost two monoblocks in one chassis (had they used two xfmr's like a Rotel RB1090 instead of dual secondary windings xfmr) I guess I'm looking for an excuse to ditch my modded carver gear and move on up. 1) Yes, nearly double the caps, separated (not shared between channels), dual windings, i.e. more like dual monoblock design. And higher quality internals (than e.g. XPA series) using "Top quality parts and construction throughout for years of reliable service." 2) I am skeptical by nature too, but the poster on AK sounds genuine. This is the comment: www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=8666620&postcount=69Full quote below (the Emo in question is XPA-2): XXXXXXXXX Picked up the Parasound Halo A21 today and spent the past 4 or so hours listening. There is no comparison. It is a night and day difference. I was actually very skeptical that there would be a noticeable difference between the emotiva and the parasound. I didn't want to be yet another person who sounds like they are justifying their most recent purchase. But, I could use every audio cliche in the books at this point. Bottom line it sounds cleaner, fuller, and more precise. I never noticed any "noise" from the emotiva but, the first thing I noticed from the parasound is the emptiness within the music. There is nothing added to or behind the instruments. All instruments sound so distinct and separate from each other. Vocals sound precise and clear. I have never heard anything quite like this from any of my previous systems. Is this what reviewers mean when they talk about separation? I truly believe that there is a tremendous difference in sound quality between these two amps. And is it true that amps "break in" with time just like speakers? Now I just need to figure out how to improve and get the most out of my listening space. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 3) This person compares SA-250 favorably to XPR-2 and XPA-1L: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/695729This one compares directly to XPA-2: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/695997This one prefers SA-250 over UPA monoblocks: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/696167And this one comparing directly to XPA-2: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/696442"Finally got to hook mine up this morning. One word "WOW"! Lonnie built something special with the SA-250. The clarity is stunning! Impressive improvement over my XPA-2 Gen1. Hard to believe but, deeper bass with the 250. That's saying a lot considering I have MMG's. No notice of less per channel power(based on specs). This thing cranks! Dianna Krall live in Paris is just stunning. Mine is NOT going back. " And yet another direct XPA-2 comparison: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/697136"...All around the 250 (with a UMC-200) sounds as best as I can remember my system ever sounding (I've been into this for 40 years...still have my Thorens turntable from 1974). Time to put the XPA-2 up for sale..." ...sounds like a lot of happy campers to me
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Post by DavidR on Apr 5, 2015 9:36:53 GMT -5
Wow! Thanks for all those links seppo. The Parasound Halo A21 is also ~ $1100 more. It would HAVE to sound a LOT better for me to buy one.
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Post by rvsixer on Apr 5, 2015 10:27:45 GMT -5
The XSP-1 is purpose made to integrate with HT (use the XSP and the AVR/processor with your current mains and subs). Which is why I haven't bought one. I'm a 2-channel dinosaur and I don't use subs as my speakers go low. Doh that's what I get for reading and answering at 4am before coffee...I thought you had written 'I would have bought an XSP-1 long ago if I didn't have the HT stuff.' My apologies. But I would still try subs if you get the XSP-1. My mains actually go lower than my subs (15Hz vs 17hz in room f10 response) but have poor response where they are located. The subs, being properly located in the room, absolutely transformed the listening experience no more "one note" bass. Ok back on track...
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Post by DavidR on Apr 5, 2015 10:36:01 GMT -5
No problem rvsixer.Been there, done that.
I use 901s on the rear and they are, IMO, very good for HT - nice rumble effect. I had the EQ recapped by DHS Speakers using quality caps. It made a nice difference. The next house I hope to have a better family room that will allow me to combine my office equipment with the current HT gear.
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Post by pedrocols on Apr 5, 2015 13:00:22 GMT -5
I doubt there is an advantage.... Thanks for the feedback but I was interested in SQ and performance. By "performance" do you mean reliability? In any case you can potentially demo both amps at your home and return the one you don't like. In my opinion that is the appropriate thing to do.
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