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Post by teaman on Apr 10, 2015 14:48:35 GMT -5
Too bad greed comes into play with most of the name brand companies. The larger companies absorb the smaller companies and the end result is usually a washed out basis of the same components with a different faceplate. Denon, Marantz and even Klipsch have all fallen victim to this power grab in the last decade or so. I am sure most of these companies are more profitable because of this, but some customers may be moving along... Even worse are the companies that put their name on another companies component, pretty shameful. One that comes to mind is the Oppo BDP-83 wrapped with a Lexicon BD-30 faceplate. The kicker.....$3500 for the Lexicon and $1200 for the Oppo. www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=4051How anyone still supports Lexicon after that disgusting money grab, is beyond me.
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Post by pop on Apr 10, 2015 14:56:39 GMT -5
lets say they are in the same enclosure and cost the same price. What would set Mcintosh apart from Emotiva? Recently I have started selling audio/video and I am having two very hard hurdles. First one is the ungodly expensive cables. This I understand though and accept it for what it is. I need to set my mind at ease. I am jaw dropped by Mcintosh prices when I know the performance from Emotiva (I know, old news, but let's discuss) I recommend Rotel, as the price is live able, but their is a shortage of high power amplifiers in their lineup. So what is it? Is it the internals in Mcintosh? Design? Like I stated, same enclosure, same price. What's the main differences? can you explain how you understand the ungodly expensive cables.. this is the most marked up item on the planet ... cheers Because there isn't anything to understand. It is what it is. Many people don't know any better, but a Mcintosh buyer does.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Apr 10, 2015 15:21:19 GMT -5
can you explain how you understand the ungodly expensive cables.. this is the most marked up item on the planet ... cheers Because there isn't anything to understand. It is what it is. Many people don't know any better, but a Mcintosh buyer does. Exactly right. And like I always tell people: nothing is overpriced if there are sufficient customers for it. If enough people are buying that the company is staying in business then the price must be right. This is basic economics.
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Post by vneal on Apr 10, 2015 15:39:49 GMT -5
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Post by bennyb on Apr 10, 2015 16:42:20 GMT -5
I'm no engineer, but I did sell Mcintosh for a few years recently. On some of my days off I would bring in my Emotiva amp to A/B with the Mac gear, Marantz, Denon, Peachtree, etc., that we had on hand. I wanted to know what was missing where, and which amps were revealing more.
First thought, Mac is (with the exception of portions of their newer processors and speaker cabinets) made in the USA with American parts. They briefly had a partnership with D&M Holdings which allowed them to get HDMI processing, and other such tech, on the cheap. But they do everything in house with their amps. An interesting note that has always stuck with me is how their transformers are wound in house and filled with tar, principle being (if I remember correctly) that it will be able to more efficiently handle it's own heat. They've had 70 years to continually fine tune their products and if you ask me, it shows.
During my listening tests with the brands we carried McIntosh always held a firm lead, followed by Peachtree with Emotiva closely behind Peachtree. No doubt Emotiva is a hellava bargain, I still have my UPA500 in my rack. But McIntosh has a level of refinement and transparency that I have not heard out of Emotiva gear. Sure the blue meters are beautiful, and their glass faceplates are meticulously painted with gold flake in like a 6 step process, but that doesn't affect what you hear. However, that same painstaking attention to detail goes into what they put inside their amps. They simply reveal more, they don't mess with the signal.
I don't personally feel that McIntosh is a snob brand, I reserve that critique for the likes of Develiet(sp?), D'Agostino, Wilson Audio, and various other Dutch and Swiss amps that cost as much as a house.
So, from a guy who spent hours comparing his Emo gear to Mac and others, a guy who recognizes everyone has their preferences and a pair of ears that appreciate different things, McIntosh is at a higher level. Emo amps will get you a good way there but Mac wins in this showdown.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 10, 2015 17:02:35 GMT -5
IMHO - McIntosh is the equivalent of Emotiva for sound quality in power amplifiers. They sound somewhat different, but equally good.
If you want tubes, the obviously Emotive offers none (yet).
For preamplifiers, I believe that McIntosh has the edge in sound quality. Want to compare? Take your Emo preamp (any model) down to the local Best-Buy/Magnolia store. If it's a slow day, and the Magnolia guy is offered a free lunch, he might let you listen to their (bottom of the line) Mac preamp as an A/B with your Emotiva. I suspect that you'll hear some difference, and that you'll (probably) prefer the McIntosh. If not, then smile & be happy. My ears consistently vote for the McIntosh preamps. YMMV
Now for preamp features, the bass-management on the Emotiva XSP-1 tops anything that McIntosh offers until you get to their AV line (which I don't like as much as their straight stereo stuff).
That said, the difference between my XSP-1 and the McIntosh that I last owned is vanishingly small. I voted with my wallet and haven't regretted it. Were I in the market for a NEW stereo preamp, though, I'd have to listen very, very carefully to the McIntosh C500/C1000/C2500/C220/C2300 before plunking down my plastic.
With Emotiva's warranty, I don't worry about reliability. Whether of not the equipment will work for another 50 years is also immaterial to me since I'm no longer a teenager.
So let nobody bad-mouth McIntosh. They're worth their money, IF and only if you want that brand. For power amps, the value for price is unbeatable with Emotiva. For preamps, the competition is stiffer.
As always, this narrative is based on my personal experiences and my ears aren't yours. Cheers!
Boom
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Apr 10, 2015 17:10:50 GMT -5
Something is worth what someone else will pay Yep. That's what I always say about jewelry too.
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Post by audiobill on Apr 10, 2015 18:16:00 GMT -5
Let's ask the question this way:
Cost aside, would you choose a rack of Emotiva or McIntosh........Be honest now!
like a Honda vs a Mercedes, both get the job done but.........
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Post by brubacca on Apr 10, 2015 18:22:30 GMT -5
Even though I think that the McIntosh is god awful ugly.. I'd go for McIntosh tubes...
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Apr 10, 2015 18:40:14 GMT -5
Let's ask the question this way: Cost aside, would you choose a rack of Emotiva or McIntosh........Be honest now! like a Honda vs a Mercedes, both get the job done but......... McIntosh and Mercedes, all day.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Apr 10, 2015 18:45:56 GMT -5
They briefly had a partnership with D&M Holdings which allowed them to get HDMI processing, Just for clarity, McIntosh was purchashed first by Clarion, then sold to D&M Holdings (Denon/Marantz) and then in 2012 they were sold to the Fine Sounds group in Italy (Sonus-Faber), who still own and control them.
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Post by Loop 7 on Apr 10, 2015 19:02:34 GMT -5
This thread has me thinking about the near cult-like following of both companies and I'm wondering if Emotiva will be in business in 50 years? My money says McIntosh will ABSOLUTELY be around for another 50 years.
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Post by vneal on Apr 11, 2015 8:11:37 GMT -5
Let's ask the question this way: Cost aside, would you choose a rack of Emotiva or McIntosh........Be honest now! like a Honda vs a Mercedes, both get the job done but......... McIntosh if it were free
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Post by pop on Apr 11, 2015 8:43:34 GMT -5
I would buy Mcintosh. However, even with my deep discounts, Mcintosh is still in a high price category.
For instance I can get a MC301 for around $3,000. For a 300 watt monoblock, I could have 2 XPR1 and that's on a discount.
I am not sure what I will do. I am an Emotiva fan boy through and through. But I believe for my current job (which I hope to keep for quite some time) I would be best off owning products I sell in store.
It would make it quite a bit easier to sell BW diamond series and Mcintosh if you have it in your home. However, Rotels offering may make a bit more sense.
I appreciate all the insight on Mcintosh as a whole, and my findings lately make me appreciate Emotiva even more. We are lucky to have a company around like Emotiva. I do wonder if I will ever have access to sell Emotiva in store. I know we can sell the SVS SB2000 through my store, we just don't have it on display.
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Post by Canuck_fr on Apr 11, 2015 9:24:53 GMT -5
Pop, I am a sales guy, have been for the last 20 years or so. You don't need to own to be a good sales person. However, knowing about your product is key. So I would reccomend that you spend the time to compare your Emotiva with your Mac offering. Knowing the differences will make you a better sales person, not owning the stuff.
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Post by teaman on Apr 11, 2015 10:25:25 GMT -5
Pop, I am a sales guy, have been for the last 20 years or so. You don't need to own to be a good sales person. However, knowing about your product is key. So I would reccomend that you spend the time to compare your Emotiva with your Mac offering. Knowing the differences will make you a better sales person, not owning the stuff. Just to add to this, I cannot start to tell you when I shop how many salespeople ask what I am looking at buying....then they proceed to tell me that is what they have at home. When I change it up and look into another piece of equipment they quickly pivot to.....yeah, I own that too........or something silly. I went through this big time when I was searching for new TV's. Pretty much makes you disregard what they have to offer. By the way, not saying either of you do this, just some experiences I have had.
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Post by vcautokid on Apr 11, 2015 10:25:42 GMT -5
I have a history with Mac too. The 275 power amplifier was very much the amp I sold. Sold allot of Krell, Rotel, NAD, and so on. I never really sold much digital Mac interestingly. But the more traditional vacuum tube Mac couldn't keep in stock enough.
Solid State did well, but the Tube'd Mac always did better. I sold Conrad Johnson too, but Mac out sold it 3 to 1 for me.
Was there a tube mystique about Mac's. I think so.
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Post by garbulky on Apr 11, 2015 10:59:30 GMT -5
Dude, you don't have to own those monoblocks to get "street cred". The people already know you know the sound since you work with it at the store.
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Post by Canuck_fr on Apr 11, 2015 11:30:15 GMT -5
Pop, I am a sales guy, have been for the last 20 years or so. You don't need to own to be a good sales person. However, knowing about your product is key. So I would reccomend that you spend the time to compare your Emotiva with your Mac offering. Knowing the differences will make you a better sales person, not owning the stuff. Just to add to this, I cannot start to tell you when I shop how many salespeople ask what I am looking at buying....then they proceed to tell me that is what they have at home. When I change it up and look into another piece of equipment they quickly pivot to.....yeah, I own that too........or something silly. I went through this big time when I was searching for new TV's. Pretty much makes you disregard what they have to offer. By the way, not saying either of you do this, just some experiences I have had. Totally agree with you, there is nothing worse than loosing your client's respect. Honesty is always the best road to good salesmanship.
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 12, 2015 6:49:04 GMT -5
Well, if I won the lottery, I'm not sure I'd own a Mercedes, so analogies are not necessarily valid. And my choices in audio equipment wouldn't necessarily be dictated by the "if it costs more, it must be better" philosophy either., I'd definitely LISTEN to all the high-ticket stuff, but unless I was "blown away" by any particular component, I'm not sure that I'd spring for it. What I definitely would do if I had $$ to burn is build a dedicated listening room that was symmetrical right-to-left, and long enough to get the listening couch away from the back wall. If it doesn't happen soon, then there's no reason to bother. Presbyacusis shall win, in the end. Say what? - Boom
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