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Post by neo on Apr 17, 2015 0:11:29 GMT -5
In hifi world, there is a principle, the heavier the better. I'm confused here. DC-1 is unanimously considered better than xda2, but how come DC1 is only 1/5 of XDA2? someone correct me please!
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Post by garbulky on Apr 17, 2015 1:10:39 GMT -5
Hehe, it absolutely is 2.2 lbs. It's very light!  The chassis makes up the majority weight of the XDA-2. On the other hand the chassis of the DC-1 is light but all the insides are absolutely packed with quality stuff like a transformer, dual dac chips. In general it's simply better performing and have better components (like the headphone amp) than the XDA-2. Scroll to the bottom of the first page of my review for more information on sexy build quality of the DC-1 emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/33501/garbulkys-review-love-female-voice |
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Post by wizardofoz on Apr 17, 2015 2:06:09 GMT -5
its about 1/3 the size and doesn't have a huge thick front panel plate either. It punches WELL ABOVE it weight trust me.
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Post by neo on Apr 17, 2015 10:38:40 GMT -5
Hehe, it absolutely is 2.2 lbs. It's very light! The chassis makes up the majority weight of the XDA-2. On the other hand the chassis of the DC-1 is light but all the insides are absolutely packed with quality stuff like a transformer, dual dac chips. In general it's simply better performing and have better components (like the headphone amp) than the XDA-2. Scroll to the bottom of the first page of my review for more information on sexy build quality of the DC-1 emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/33501/garbulkys-review-love-female-voiceNice pics! But I still don't get it. The heavier the better principle is not true any more? |
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Post by knucklehead on Apr 17, 2015 11:43:51 GMT -5
In hifi world, there is a principle, the heavier the better. I'm confused here. DC-1 is unanimously considered better than xda2, but how come DC1 is only 1/5 of XDA2? someone correct me please! Thats an outdated notion. Years ago a heavy amp might indicate more transformer and better heat sinks. I have a 12 pound Rotel 5 channel amp. There is nothing weak about it IMO. I've had many 'boat anchor' amps over the years - I'll never have another. The Rotel puts out 100/200wpc into 8/4 ohms and sounds every bit as good as the two XPA-5's I've owned. As far as the XDA-2 being inferior - until someone tests that out in a DBX sitting and the DC-1 comes out consistently on top I'm going to buy the XDA-2 if I need a DAC - and the XDA-1 before the XDA-2. DAC technology has come a long way since the very first CD players. Hearing is very subjective - don't believe everything you hear. |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Apr 17, 2015 11:46:38 GMT -5
Not as true as it was years ago. As Class D amps become better (and less expensive) you'll see powerful amps that weigh only a fraction of what a solid state or tube amp would have weighed but with similar performance. Wizard is correct; the XDA pre-amps have solid aluminum faceplates and a (comparatively) larger chassis. Most of the weight savings come there.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Apr 17, 2015 11:47:00 GMT -5
Power supply types contribute to weight differences. Older tech usually weighs much more.  But I have DC-1 primarily because of the form factor. For my work desk it is perfect as a DAC and headphone DAC. (and it sounds great in that application) |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 17, 2015 12:01:43 GMT -5
In hifi world, there is a principle, the heavier the better. I'm confused here. DC-1 is unanimously considered better than xda2, but how come DC1 is only 1/5 of XDA2? someone correct me please! As others have said the case makes up most of the difference, DACs aren't normally judged by weight because the power supply needs are minimal. With A and A/B amps the weight priciple holds more ... weight, but even then a manufacturer who uses very thick faceplates and chassis would have an advantage using this principle. Bottom line, comparing equipment isn't as easy as lifting it up (and both the XDA-2 and DC-1 are good). |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 17, 2015 13:39:51 GMT -5
I'm behind you on heavier is better neo but in this case there are other factors....namely the chassis and a oompletely different design. DAC's don't always follow this rule. For instance I auditioned the dragonfly unit 1.2 and found it to perform close to the XDA-2 though it's sound signature was a bit different. And it's this size....  I have the XDA-1 and If ound this unit does very close in quality (though not 100% as good)  NWAVguy's ODAC people find to be comparable to large extenal dacs like the benchmark dac. And it looks like this  Now there are also fantastic sounding high performance dacs that do follow the heavier is better. Here's the audio gd master 7  This may help Emotiva XDA-2 was meant for home use. The DC-1 was meant for professional use maybe on a desk so space had to be considered. Everything was designed to fit inside a smaller space whle the xda-2 has large amounts of empty space as space wasn't an issue. XDA-2inside:  DC-1 inside:  But here's the more important question. Do you really plan to listen at 3 feet? As that changes all my reccomendations for you. How do you plan to listen ? Is it going to be on a desk? Are the speakers going to be below your ear? |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 17, 2015 15:53:13 GMT -5
... Do you really plan to listen at 3 feet? ... Where did that come from? I don't see any mention of distance from the OP. |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 17, 2015 16:16:11 GMT -5
AudioHTIT He mentioned it in another thread when he was calculating amp power and I wanted to make sure that was his intention.
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Post by neo on Apr 17, 2015 19:02:03 GMT -5
I'm behind you on heavier is better neo but in this case there are other factors....namely the chassis and a oompletely different design. DAC's don't always follow this rule. For instance I auditioned the dragonfly unit 1.2 and found it to perform close to the XDA-2 though it's sound signature was a bit different. And it's this size.... I have the XDA-1 and If ound this unit does very close in quality (though not 100% as good) NWAVguy's ODAC people find to be comparable to large extenal dacs like the benchmark dac. And it looks like this Now there are also fantastic sounding high performance dacs that do follow the heavier is better. Here's the audio gd master 7 This may help Emotiva XDA-2 was meant for home use. The DC-1 was meant for professional use maybe on a desk so space had to be considered. Everything was designed to fit inside a smaller space whle the xda-2 has large amounts of empty space as space wasn't an issue. XDA-2inside: DC-1 inside: But here's the more important question. Do you really plan to listen at 3 feet? As that changes all my reccomendations for you. How do you plan to listen ? Is it going to be on a desk? Are the speakers going to be below your ear? Thanks a lot for posting the pictures! I can see that now. One more question to follow, how good is DC1 as an analog preamp? The reason I ask this question is that, If I decide to go with DC1, I don't want to invest on another preamp. So I expect the preamp on DC1 to be as good as its dac part (not a so-so one). Otherwise, I will go XDA2 + preamp. By the way, I don't care how many analog inputs. One is enough for me. Sorry, I'm trying to squeeze too much from DC1. |
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Post by neo on Apr 17, 2015 19:08:46 GMT -5
In hifi world, there is a principle, the heavier the better. I'm confused here. DC-1 is unanimously considered better than xda2, but how come DC1 is only 1/5 of XDA2? someone correct me please! Thats an outdated notion. Years ago a heavy amp might indicate more transformer and better heat sinks. I have a 12 pound Rotel 5 channel amp. There is nothing weak about it IMO. I've had many 'boat anchor' amps over the years - I'll never have another. The Rotel puts out 100/200wpc into 8/4 ohms and sounds every bit as good as the two XPA-5's I've owned. As far as the XDA-2 being inferior - until someone tests that out in a DBX sitting and the DC-1 comes out consistently on top I'm going to buy the XDA-2 if I need a DAC - and the XDA-1 before the XDA-2. DAC technology has come a long way since the very first CD players. Hearing is very subjective - don't believe everything you hear. Interesting video ! |
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Post by neo on Apr 17, 2015 19:09:13 GMT -5
Thank you all for your inputs!
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Post by audiobill on Apr 17, 2015 19:23:26 GMT -5
Just get the DC-1......
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Post by garbulky on Apr 17, 2015 21:06:56 GMT -5
Hehe. You may be interested to know there are two camps. One rather large one is people that feel that if the frequency response is flat from 20hz to 20khz with inaudible deviations then it stands to reason that a;ll DACs that meet that specification sound the same. Especially if one cannot hear a difference between a thing called double blind testing. Where one plays a dac for a bit and then somebody switches the dac for them (and doesn't tell them) and plays the same song at the exact same volume. Now it would be interesting to know that 1. All DACs even the very cheap ones can pretty much do a flat frequency response. 2. Most people cannot distinguish dacs in double blind testing. I am from the second camp* - which believe if you can hear a difference in general use of the DAC then there is a difference. Most of the people in this camp usually don't do double blind listening or volume match when testing. Most rarely do a and b testing. Not speaking for everybody but that's the general trend I get. I have heard differences in nearly all the dacs i have. Some of them are very similar, some aren't. Some are just "different", some are clearly better. The important thing here is that....this is a subjective assessment - which just so happens to be exactly the way you would use the dac in real life. My argument is that the moment you start using a dac by listening to all songs at the exact same volume for a few seconds before switching to a second dac then the previous camp has some validity. If you don't listen to music this way, then I have doubts on the idea that dacs sound the same. There are technical reasons that dacs could sound different but I am not qualified to speak about them. They mainly revolve around filters and an effect called "ringing", approximations in the signal processing, shifts in the time domain, phase distortions ( maybe?) Though none of them explain the results of double blind testing. *There is also a third camp but they don't come out much and they don't get invited to many parties so we don't talk about them.  |
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stiehl11
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Post by stiehl11 on Apr 17, 2015 22:02:28 GMT -5
Hehe. You may be interested to know there are two camps. One rather large one is people that feel that if the frequency response is flat from 20hz to 20khz with inaudible deviations then it stands to reason that a;ll DACs that meet that specification sound the same. Especially if one cannot hear a difference between a thing called double blind testing. Where one plays a dac for a bit and then somebody switches the dac for them (and doesn't tell them) and plays the same song at the exact same volume. Now it would be interesting to know that 1. All DACs even the very cheap ones can pretty much do a flat frequency response. 2. Most people cannot distinguish dacs in double blind testing. I am from the second camp* - which believe if you can hear a difference in general use of the DAC then there is a difference. Most of the people in this camp usually don't do double blind listening or volume match when testing. Most rarely do a and b testing. Not speaking for everybody but that's the general trend I get. I have heard differences in nearly all the dacs i have. Some of them are very similar, some aren't. Some are just "different", some are clearly better. The important thing here is that....this is a subjective assessment - which just so happens to be exactly the way you would use the dac in real life. My argument is that the moment you start using a dac by listening to all songs at the exact same volume for a few seconds before switching to a second dac then the previous camp has some validity. If you don't listen to music this way, then I have doubts on the idea that dacs sound the same. There are technical reasons that dacs could sound different but I am not qualified to speak about them. They mainly revolve around filters and an effect called "ringing", approximations in the signal processing, shifts in the time domain, phase distortions ( maybe?) Though none of them explain the results of double blind testing. *There is also a third camp but they don't come out much and they don't get invited to many parties so we don't talk about them. Trust your ears: there are people out there that may be able to tell good from bad, but can't tell good from great. If someone listens to a great DAC and then listens to a DAC at a 1/4 of the price and can't tell a difference then they're throwing good money after bad. |
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Post by teaman on Apr 17, 2015 22:52:51 GMT -5
I love the XDA-2's. I am sure I would love the DC-1's as well. I am sure most of the weight discrepancy between the two is from the full size case and chassis that encompasses the XDA-2. At only $180 shipped for a factory refreshed XDA-2 from Emotiva with a year of warranty to me is a bit of a no brainer. To me the XDA-2 does everything I ask it to do with a chassis and faceplate that blends seamlessly with my other Emotiva equipment.
There are a lot of different DAC's on the market and only you know what you expect out of it. I have seen good reviews about the Dragonfly's, Schiit and a few others so with the cost of so many being so affordable it may be worth trying more than one, then reselling the others.
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Post by sahmen on Apr 17, 2015 23:12:44 GMT -5
How about size discrepancy? My XMC-1 definitely looks smaller than my XSP-1 Gen 1, but it is supposed to house the innards of both the XSP-1 and much of the of the DC, not to mention a whole lot of other 5.1 processing circuitry including an hdmi board that is missing from the XSP-1 and the DC-1. On the surface, the XMC-1 appears, by looks, to represent the definition of "less is more," when compared to the looks/size of the XSP-1 +XDA-2 combo, although I am not taking the different weights into account in this assessment. Size definitely does not seem to matter at all.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Apr 18, 2015 1:14:21 GMT -5
One more question to follow, how good is DC1 as an analog preamp? The reason I ask this question is that, If I decide to go with DC1, I don't want to invest on another preamp. So I expect the preamp on DC1 to be as good as its dac part (not a so-so one). Otherwise, I will go XDA2 + preamp. By the way, I don't care how many analog inputs. One is enough for me. Sorry, I'm trying to squeeze too much from DC1 If you need even one analog input then the XDA-2 is out (it has none), so you MUST add a preamp with that. Either DAC makes a great preamp by themself (though some disagree). You're getting opinions here, not absolutes, in the end you have to decide. I'd get the DC-1 and be done with it, if you don't like it you can always send it back and get the XDA-2/XSP-1. |
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The chassis makes up the majority weight of the XDA-2. On the other hand the chassis of the DC-1 is light but all the insides are absolutely packed with quality stuff like a transformer, dual dac chips. In general it's simply better performing and have better components (like the headphone amp) than the XDA-2. 
