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Post by creimes on May 13, 2015 23:43:57 GMT -5
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Post by Gary Cook on May 13, 2015 23:51:48 GMT -5
XPA-1 for a sub amp, great choice for music, that Class AB sound is a step up from the usual Class D pro amps. I use an XPA-100 with a 17" driver in a 140 litre dual ported enclosure and it has plenty of grunt, so an XPA-1 would have more than more than enough. For movies you might not notice the sound quality difference.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by Gary Cook on May 14, 2015 0:16:45 GMT -5
Would the Crown SOUND better than the XPA-1. I haven't compared an XPA-1 with Crown amps, but I have compared them with an XPA-100 and an XPA-1L and it's no contest. The Class AB amps are far more musical to my ears. Cheers Gary |
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Post by knucklehead on May 14, 2015 0:35:44 GMT -5
The XPA-1 would drive most any sub just fine but it makes little sense IMO - for less than half the price a Crown XLS-1500 or 2000 would do just fine. Better still if the driver has dual voice coils. Use the crown in mono mode and connect up both sides. It won't much matter - or care - if those voice coils are 2ohm or 4. The XPA-1 might have a problem with a 2ohm load. Posters that keep saying the class d amps aren't 'musical' - that they 'hear' something 'edgy' or 'buzzing' or --- any of a number of things - should sit down and submit to a DBX test and listen to a class d vs a/b amp. If you can pick out one over the other on a consistent basis you'll be rewarded with $10,000 dollars! So far nobody's won it. And yes - class d amps are a valid choice to compare. |
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Post by Gary Cook on May 14, 2015 1:11:00 GMT -5
The XPA-1 would drive most any sub just fine but it makes little sense IMO - for less than half the price a Crown XLS-1500 or 2000 would do just fine. Better still if the driver has dual voice coils. Use the crown in mono mode and connect up both sides. It won't much matter - or care - if those voice coils are 2ohm or 4. The XPA-1 might have a problem with a 2ohm load. Posters that keep saying the class d amps aren't 'musical' - that they 'hear' something 'edgy' or 'buzzing' or --- any of a number of things - should sit down and submit to a DBX test and listen to a class d vs a/b amp. If you can pick out one over the other on a consistent basis you'll be rewarded with $10,000 dollars! So far nobody's won it. And yes - class d amps are a valid choice to compare. Playing several tracks of well known music the 4 members of my family had no problem identifying the difference between an XPA-100 compared to 3 x Crown amps and 2 x Behringer amps. Yes blind, yes volume matched to the db and yes consistently. It really was one of those ever so rare black and white calls, maybe it's my sub, maybe the room and maybe the music selection. I even had a work college over for red wine and pizza and he could hear and recognise the different between the Class AB and the Class D amps. For movies, it was a different story, the difference was much harder to pick. So in my view with a sub for music the quality of the amplifier most certainly makes a difference but for movies not so much. Cheers Gary |
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Post by jackpine on May 14, 2015 3:16:53 GMT -5
Have you read thru the link you provided? Unless you're brand new to using the internet and audio you should realize it's ridiculous. |
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Post by creimes on May 14, 2015 8:18:55 GMT -5
I still stand behind a pro amp for a sub rather than a XPA-1, the cost savings are huge in it's own, I use a single channel on my Berhinger EP4000 which is an A/B amp not class D, I would be hard pressed myself to find a difference between them especially running a sub. In the end it's up to you, myself I would sell the XPA-1 and grab a crown amp and put the savings into buying a bigger better subwoofer driver, that's just me though.
Chad
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Post by vcautokid on May 14, 2015 9:54:32 GMT -5
Well guess what both a Class D pro amp, or the XPA-1 amp will work fine in a subwoofer application. The Class D will be lighter, and usually less expensive, will run cool. The XPA-1 is the traditional way of doing business, and yes. Does it very well. Lots of current for the lower impedance of a sub, and if you move the system around a bit, the XPA-1 goes along great with other XPA amps for instance.
You can't really lose with either. I have used both for demanding applications. They'll just work. Frankly I would use the XPA-1 Times 2 and take advantage of how great the XPA-1 sounds across the band, and use a Class D amp for your sub.
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Post by knucklehead on May 14, 2015 9:56:27 GMT -5
Have you read thru the link you provided? Unless you're brand new to using the internet and audio you should realize it's ridiculous. What I find most ridiculous about the internet is when someone makes a claim - and offers nothing to back it up. |
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Post by monkumonku on May 14, 2015 10:01:03 GMT -5
Have you read thru the link you provided? Unless you're brand new to using the internet and audio you should realize it's ridiculous. What I find most ridiculous about the internet is when someone makes a claim - and offers nothing to back it up. What it really ought to boil down to in this "hobby" is what does it sound like to YOUR ears? Way too many people who either embrace or dismiss something based on specs, graphs, reviews, what a friend of a friend said, etc., but in the end it should be about the way something sounds in your own listening room in your own home. Yet, somehow "audiophilia" has become a "hobby" of analyzing charts and numbers and pontificating about what may or may not be and endlessly fussing with a system trying to achieve an impossible nirvana. The means has become the end.  |
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Post by vcautokid on May 14, 2015 10:08:27 GMT -5
Ultimately data points must support your claim. Monkumonku is correct that your ears are the final judge. And yes this is a hobby. Any solution for a sub amp will work as long as it will support the low impedance, and have the power for control and dynamics. What are you heading down there anyway. Hmm.
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Post by creimes on May 14, 2015 10:50:28 GMT -5
I guess if there is no budget it really doesn't matter what amp someone would use as long as it is up to the task, heck and XPR-2 would be sweet for a dual 18 setup, one bonus the pro amp will have is a gain knob for more adjust ability
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Post by pedrocols on May 14, 2015 10:52:11 GMT -5
I guess if there is no budget it really doesn't matter what amp someone would use as long as it is up to the task, heck and XPR-2 would be sweet for a dual 18 setup, one bonus the pro amp will have is a gain knob for more adjust ability In addition, pro amps seem to be a lot lighter... |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 11:02:22 GMT -5
I've compared my xpa2 directly against my xls1500 on my mains and could hear zero difference, perhaps my equipment isn't resolving enough or my ears haven't been trained well enough.
I wouldn't use the xls amps for sub duty as they seem to have a built in "shut off" for the lower frequencies, there's been a few guys who ram some tests on them and the crowns end up going into protection when pushed.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 11:44:34 GMT -5
I've compared my xpa2 directly against my xls1500 on my mains and could hear zero difference, perhaps my equipment isn't resolving enough or my ears haven't been trained well enough. I wouldn't use the xls amps for sub duty as they seem to have a built in "shut off" for the lower frequencies, there's been a few guys who ram some tests on them and the crowns end up going into protection when pushed. fattykid, I do have a XPA-2 gen2 as well. Would the XPA-2 perform better with the sub build? I noticed you're experienced with building nice subs as well! Thank you It really all depends on what driver and enclosure your you're going to use, and your listening preferences. Subwoofers have the ability to use up TONS of power for fractions of a second. I prefer to hAve plenty of headroom available for my subs and speakers as well. So can you give some more info as to your build plans? Personally as nice as it would be to have all emotiva amps in my rack I would need to have 4 xpr1 amps to equate my single 10k clone amp I use to run my subs. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 12:46:34 GMT -5
Absolutely nothing wrong with using the xpa1,especially since you already have it. You could look into the ultimax driver, PE has them and they are bundled with a 4cu ft flat pack. (The same as what creimes built) . And they are quite affordable and perform pretty good. I'm a fan of ported enclosures however and suggest either building a slot ported design from avs called the "Marty cube" or grab a Stonehenge flat pack from Diysoundgroup. Both perform very well and should give at least the same performance as any of the psa or hsu offerings. I put one of my ported Ixl's up against an hsu vtf15 and it just demolished it.
You could also look into some of the stereo integrity drivers which can be run at 2ohms, the xpa1 would be quite the powerhouse in this configuration.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 12:47:44 GMT -5
And yeah some call 10k over kill, I call it effortless and and low distortion. I like it loud but I'm not stupid...hahaha
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Post by knucklehead on May 14, 2015 14:48:52 GMT -5
Since you are doing a DIY project you might also be interested in the Marty-Sub flatpack enclosure. From what I've read its easy to build and you'll end up with a sub that will out-perform all but the finest subs available to buy already assembled. You'll need to find the link in the classifieds to purchase one (or two). Lots of great reviews from buyers. As for an amp as long as you already have the XPA-1 you might as well use it since you have one. Keep in mind should you decide to build two subs you'll need another one. A Crown XLS 2000 or 2500 can drive two subs without breaking a sweat. IMO two of those Marty 18" Marty subs would be a killer setup - and for right around the price of one commercially available single 18" sub. I have a single 15" sub (A5-350) made by Elemental Designs who are now out of business. It shakes my home very nicely - I can't imagine a pair of 18" subs in my home. I also have 2 DIY 12" sealed subs for two channel that sound very good. I modeled them to 30hz + or - 2db and got that. I used WinISD for modeling the enclosures. The drivers are a single Peerless XXLS 12" in each in a 48L enclosure stuffed with polyester. Each has a 250w plate amp driving them. The results were exactly what I was looking for - the low notes on bass guitars and cellos are quite distinctive - as are other low notes. The A5-350 'tries' to play low notes well but the comparison isn't even close. |
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2015 16:14:33 GMT -5
I still have to recommend against the crown xls amps there are plenty of guys having issues as can be seen in this linkPlus there is no dsp in the crowns or the xpa for that matter so you'll need to get a minidsp or something similar to implement a hpf (rumble or subsonic filter) to keep your sub from bottoming out below tuning in the ported enclosure. |
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Post by stads77 on May 14, 2015 16:26:49 GMT -5
I still have to recommend against the crown xls amps there are plenty of guys having issues as can be seen in this linkPlus there is no dsp in the crowns or the xpa for that matter so you'll need to get a minidsp or something similar to implement a hpf (rumble or subsonic filter) to keep your sub from bottoming out below tuning in the ported enclosure. Never had any issues with any crown xls' I've owned. Seems like lots of people use them for subs no problem. Strange indeed. |
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