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Post by jmilton on May 29, 2015 9:51:18 GMT -5
Interesting thing about empathy. I think the biggest obstacle to that is that an AI is not automatically with the sensation of pain. Also a robot is also technically immortal. So the preciousness of life may not automatically register with it or why "pain" or suffering is necessarily a bad thing. Sort of like somebody stepping on an ant. Why should they care when they can't relate to it in any way shape or form. And more importantly why would they even WANT to? I think that's probably the hardest obstacle to surmount. Immortal relative to only our understanding. By way of comparison, a car (or any machine) is immortal... but the trash heap and junk yards are littered with them. No. Technically they are non-mortal. Mortal means living. Immortal means a living thing that never dies. |
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Post by Boomzilla on May 29, 2015 9:56:05 GMT -5
All of this misses the point of AI. When a bot becomes "self-aware", it thinks and acts on its own accord...not through some algorithm or a programmed instruction set. It is able to grow intellectually and operate/evolve self sufficiently without instructions from its creator. It achieves consciousness. The 3 laws are programs. What happens when self awareness takes place is dealt with in the movie Automata, and I, Robot.
You are entirely correct @jmilton - However, humans "learn morality," be it by nature or nurture. Even if a machine is self-aware, the teaching of morality must still occur. Until self-consciousness is achieved, the "morality by programming" will be needed. After self-awareness, the machine will need to understand the value of the (previously hardwired) choices. A small child can be taught not to lie to its parents, to keep one's hands out of the cookie jar, and to respect others without hazard to the teachers (parents). But what would happen if the "child" was a half-ton robot? |
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Post by jmilton on May 29, 2015 10:05:47 GMT -5
Q.-But what would happen if the "child" was a half-ton robot?
A.-I'm thinking "football scholarship" !
________________________________________________
Knowing right/wrong can be taught. Doing right/wrong is a choice. A dog can learn tricks and can learn to avoid things that cause pain. That doesn't make it moral. Morality is a man faced with a choice of right/wrong, and choosing right, because it is the right thing to do. When faced with a protagonist, I choose to compete with him, not murder him. An AI may choose to kill him to remove a potential obstacle. After all, it would be a logical choice...but not a moral choice.
Thus... Eva
(Of course, the producer of this movie is probably saying by now, "Golly people, its just a stupid robot movie!")
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stiehl11
Emo VIPs 
Give me available light!
Posts: 7,269
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Post by stiehl11 on May 29, 2015 10:17:00 GMT -5
Immortal relative to only our understanding. By way of comparison, a car (or any machine) is immortal... but the trash heap and junk yards are littered with them. No. Technically they are non-mortal. Mortal means living. Immortal means a living that that never dies. I stand corrected.  |
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Post by jmilton on May 29, 2015 10:18:03 GMT -5
If Emotiva doesn't release a new product soon, this conversation will never come to a fitting conclusion!!   |
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Post by garbulky on May 29, 2015 11:16:12 GMT -5
Interesting thing about empathy. I think the biggest obstacle to that is that an AI is not automatically with the sensation of pain. Also a robot is also technically immortal. So the preciousness of life may not automatically register with it or why "pain" or suffering is necessarily a bad thing. Sort of like somebody stepping on an ant. Why should they care when they can't relate to it in any way shape or form. And more importantly why would they even WANT to? I think that's probably the hardest obstacle to surmount. Immortal relative to only our understanding. By way of comparison, a car (or any machine) is immortal... but the trash heap and junk yards are littered with them. You're saying they too need upkeep? Well sure but when you have a robot army to repair oneself... |
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stiehl11
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Posts: 7,269
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Ex Machina
May 29, 2015 11:39:01 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by stiehl11 on May 29, 2015 11:39:01 GMT -5
Immortal relative to only our understanding. By way of comparison, a car (or any machine) is immortal... but the trash heap and junk yards are littered with them. You're saying they too need upkeep? Well sure but when you have a robot army to repair oneself... Eventually all things wear out. |
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Post by jmilton on May 29, 2015 11:48:12 GMT -5
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Post by Priapulus on May 29, 2015 15:56:18 GMT -5
. For example, we're at the dawn of the self-driving car. What should the car do if presented with an impossible situation: Run off a cliff, possibly killing all occupants, or run over a group of school children in the middle of the road? Evasion or braking are not going to suffice. What should the car do? Boom Computer science invented "fuzzy Logic" for those situations.
Sincerely /blair
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Post by Priapulus on May 29, 2015 16:09:29 GMT -5
Immanuel Kant says that morality is grounded in reason, and wrote a book to prove it "Groundwork of the Metaphysics of Morals". Reason is logic, which computers, hence robots, excel at. I don't remember that course too well, but if Mr. Kant implies that logical (reasonable) people are inherently moral, then I must disagree. Serial killers are often HIGHLY reasonable - stalking, selecting, and murdering their victims in a way designed to prevent their own identification and capture. By Mr. Kant's definition, then, serial killers are moral. The converse is also true - I have a cousin who is autistic. He's one of the most moral people I know, but he is neither reasonable nor logical. These examples argue (strongly) against Emmanuel Kant's linkage between reason and morality. The philosopher Descartes wrote "Cogito ergo sum" (I think, therefore I am); proving that if a robot becomes aware that it can think, it exists. In response to "I think, therefore I am", Wittgenstein replied "I don't think so", and promptly vanished, proving metaphysics. So robots have souls and can go to heaven or hell, so must have free will and the ability to make moral judgments, and held accountable for them.
inSincerely /blair
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Post by Boomzilla on May 29, 2015 16:15:50 GMT -5
There's a REASON I made a D in that philosophy course...  |
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Post by Hair Nick on May 29, 2015 16:20:18 GMT -5
Don't you say a bad word about the Hellboy movies!  One of my favorite parts of the film: |
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Post by deltadube on May 29, 2015 16:35:30 GMT -5
a more important movie called The Pump...
great ideas.. any why they are squashed...
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Post by Boomzilla on May 29, 2015 16:42:49 GMT -5
Not my fault - I got dain bramage...
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