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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 29, 2015 17:37:21 GMT -5
Per Emotiva's product page, their XMC-1 uses "Twin Texas Instruments DA710 32-bit floating-point, dual-core, 300 MHz DSP engines capable of 1800 MIPS each," while the Stealth DC-1 DAC uses "dual independent AD1955 differential D/A converters, followed by professional-grade LM4562 op-amps in the analog section."
That does't tell me how they sound.. Could someone who has owned both products describe the similarities and differences of the DAC implementations (stereo only) of the two products?
Thanks kindly - Boomzilla
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Post by novisnick on Jun 29, 2015 17:49:54 GMT -5
Per Emotiva's product page, their XMC-1 uses "Twin Texas Instruments DA710 32-bit floating-point, dual-core, 300 MHz DSP engines capable of 1800 MIPS each," while the Stealth DC-1 DAC uses "dual independent AD1955 differential D/A converters, followed by professional-grade LM4562 op-amps in the analog section." That does't tell me how they sound.. Could someone who has owned both products describe the similarities and differences of the DAC implementations (stereo only) of the two products? Thanks kindly - Boomzilla I can not discern the differences but will state that you need only one or the other, IMHO But I've written this before. Road trip!!!  |
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Post by dudeisms7 on Jun 29, 2015 20:43:37 GMT -5
I own both, just got my XMC-1 last week... Still formulating my opinions
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Post by garbulky on Jun 29, 2015 22:18:00 GMT -5
Interstingly I think those DSP's are for signal processing...not for DAC conversion in the XMC-1?
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Post by qdtjni on Jun 30, 2015 4:06:50 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 30, 2015 5:55:21 GMT -5
Why does the product page clearly say otherwise? It says "Twin Texas Instruments DA710 32-bit floating-point, dual-core, 300 MHz DSP engines capable of 1800 MIPS each, handle all audio decoding and post processing." |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 30, 2015 5:57:59 GMT -5
I own both, just got my XMC-1 last week... Still formulating my opinions Once you do so, please let us know! Thanks - Boom |
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Post by qdtjni on Jun 30, 2015 6:09:46 GMT -5
Why does the product page clearly say otherwise? It says "Twin Texas Instruments DA710 32-bit floating-point, dual-core, 300 MHz DSP engines capable of 1800 MIPS each, handle all audio decoding and post processing." It doesn't. The DSP does indeed handle audio decoding and post processing such as decoding Dolby Digital, DTS, Dirac, etc. where the DAC does digital to analogue conversion of PCM or DSD digital signal to analogue. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 30, 2015 6:15:44 GMT -5
How confusing! So only if decoding is being done (as from a movie or SACD disc?) does the TI set engage; otherwise, a Burr-Brown set handles CD (PCM) audio?
Even so, it's a different chip set than in the Stealth DC-1, so probably a different sound. Can you describe the differences?
Thanks - Boom
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Post by qdtjni on Jun 30, 2015 6:16:53 GMT -5
I already linked to the product feature page but here is an extract:
*DACs and Volume Controls
Burr-Brown PCM4202 ADC for precision 24-bit analog to digital conversion.
Burr-Brown 24/192 DSD1796 main zone DACs.
Dual CS3318 lossless resistor ladder volume controls for main zone. 0.5dB resolution.
NJW 1298 lossless resistor ladder volume controls for secondary zones and mix out. 0.5dB resolution.*
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Post by qdtjni on Jun 30, 2015 6:27:21 GMT -5
How confusing! So only if decoding is being done (as from a movie or SACD disc?) does the TI set engage; otherwise, a Burr-Brown set handles CD (PCM) audio? Even so, it's a different chip set than in the Stealth DC-1, so probably a different sound. Can you describe the differences? Thanks - Boom Don't think the DSP deals with DSD (SACD) but for Dolby and DTS the bitstream is decoded by the DSP, post-processing such as Dirac is done in the DSP and then the end result is handed over to the DACs. So for instance: HDMI 1 with DTS -> DSP for DTS decoding & DSP DIRAC post processing-> DACs - analogue part of preamp For analogue in with Dirac it goes from analog in -> ADC -> DSP -> DAC -> analogue part of preamp, Digital with Dirac, Digital In -> DSP -> DAC -> analogue part of preamp. Where it with reference mode would be: Analogue In -> analogue part of preamp Digital In -> DAC -> analogue part of preamp A bit over simplified perhaps, |
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Post by qdtjni on Jun 30, 2015 6:29:00 GMT -5
Even so, it's a different chip set than in the Stealth DC-1, so probably a different sound. Can you describe the differences? I don't have a Stealth DC-1 so unfortunately, I cannot compare that with the XMC-1. |
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Post by sahmen on Jun 30, 2015 10:14:25 GMT -5
Boom: They do sound different, and even though the differences lie in subtleties, and small incremental nuances of "shades" and "hues" within the two soundscapea, they are still noticeable... Whether those differences make one implementation necessarily "better-sounding" than the other is, as usual, up to individual subjective interpretations (and I wouldn't be surprised if different listeners come to different, even contradictory conclusions on the subject). Obviously, the involvement of Dirac in the XMC-1 can also play a game-changing role in any comparisons, but I am not even taking that into direct account in this analysis yet. Personally I prefer to stick to simply "different" for now. I like both of the two units enough to retain them for different purposes (they are deployed in two separate rigs), but I have not had the patience to do a careful A/B comparative auditioning of both units in order to nail down the differences in detail, nor do I have the skills in "audiophile speak" to do those differences adequate justice in describing them. I often hate it when I am told to audition components for myself in order to make my own decisions and choices (because 95% of the time, I do not get immediate access to the components I'm interested in until I have purchased them, even though I wish I could always audition before making any purchases). Yet, I am afraid that is precisely what I am inclined to recommend at this moment, especially knowing how critical and hard to please you can be in your own audio-related tastes and preferences  |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jun 30, 2015 15:31:28 GMT -5
The signal routing isn't all THAT confusing.... Whenever the signal is digital, it has to go through the DACs to be converted back to analog on the way out. Therefore, you're listening to the XMC-1's DACs at all times EXCEPT when you have an analog input and are using a mode with absolutely no processing (Reference Stereo). So, when you use a Coax Input, or and HDMI input, you are always using the DACs. And, when you are using a mode that offers processing (like Stereo), then you are using the DACs. When there is any processing available, then you are also going through the DSP (on the way to the DACs). The signal path for DSD is a special case; since no processing is offered, and DSD is routed straight to the DACs. The DACs we use accept both DSD and PCM inputs, and we use the same DACs for both. The difference is that, when a DSD signal is detected, it bypasses everything else, and is routed straight to the DACs. (Incidentally, TI bought Burr Brown, although they sometimes still use the "BB" designation on some products, so they are now the same company.) Both the AD DACs we use in the XDA-2 and DC-1, and the TI ones we use in the XMC-1, are quite neutral sounding, and so sound very similar. How confusing! So only if decoding is being done (as from a movie or SACD disc?) does the TI set engage; otherwise, a Burr-Brown set handles CD (PCM) audio? Even so, it's a different chip set than in the Stealth DC-1, so probably a different sound. Can you describe the differences? Thanks - Boom |
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Post by novisnick on Jun 30, 2015 17:23:08 GMT -5
The DC-1 is more chocolaty and with a crispy outer crust then the XMC-1! I did notice a bit-O-honey though,,,,,,,,,,,  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jun 30, 2015 19:19:05 GMT -5
The DC-1 is more chocolaty and with a crispy outer crust then the XMC-1! I did notice a bit-O-honey though,,,,,,,,,,, As usual, Nick, you SLAY me! LOL - Thanks for the laugh - I needed it today! Boom |
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Post by dudeisms7 on Jun 30, 2015 20:48:39 GMT -5
I have both, I use analog out of the DC-1 to the XMC-1, only way I listen to 2 channel is reference stereo... still doing an A/B between the XMC-1 dac vs. the DC-1 dac. New variable today is I got my XLR cables for between the XMC-1 and the amp, plus XLR for the DC-1.
So far its kinda like what kind of chocolate do you prefer... they're both good chocolate... just different chocolate. But its just different flavors, I can't definitively say that I am liking one over the other so far... they both have their merits and subtleties.
On my test tracks there might be subtleties like where a particular instrument is coming from in its depth placement... but very very subtle and not one being better than the other.
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Post by Boomzilla on Jul 1, 2015 6:27:40 GMT -5
Thanks dudeisms7 - I appreciate your efforts in describing the differences. I think, after reading about many others' impressions of the XMC-1, that it will be something I'd have to try for myself. I've heard the Stealth DC-1 in my room (twice, and once for an extended period) and with different equipment. Without going into detail, the unit just wasn't for me. Now curiously, I've also heard the same DAC in a friend's system where it sounded better than it did in my system! It wasn't the same make & model DAC - It was the SAME DAC. And depending on the venue, it sounded significantly differently! So, from experience, I can confidently say that the DC-1 isn't for my system in my room. Since my ears and/or my room are apparently "picky about DACs," I don't think that anyone's description of the differences in sound will be reliable enough to guide my choice. I may have to buy the two or three units that I'm interested in & throw a head to head comparison with some friends to garner their impressions (that usually, but not always coincide with my own). The contenders, at this point are: Schiit Yggrasdil Emotiva XMC-1 Benchmark DAC-1 HDR The latter two may (or may not) be able to also replace my XSP-1 analog preamp. I have only two sources - Blu-Ray player & streaming audio from computer (WAV files only). Since both are digital... Thanks again - Boom |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2015 7:06:37 GMT -5
Well if it helps at all in my experience I was able to directly replace the xsp1 gen 2 and DC-1 with the xmc-1. The sound is as good if not better now for 2 channel
Well worth the consolidation. And it was only a few bucks more to get a new HT pre out of the deal (after selling my xsp DC1 and avr)
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Post by vcautokid on Jul 1, 2015 8:08:42 GMT -5
Another consideration is that it is the implementation beyond the DAC is how it will sound. The OP amps or discrete stages after will play a role in how they will sound too.
I mostly agree with Keith that both the XMC-1 are very close. For some reason just by a smidgen, I like XMC-1 better.
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