UPA-2 Caught Fire

[vneal]

I would have handled anything like this through the phone and not a public forum. If thereafter you felt wrong I would publish your side.

[Priapulus]

If EMO isn't interested in your amplifier, I'm sure that UL, or other certifying agencies would be interested in it's pyrotechnic technology. Just look at the back of the amplifier and see who certified it as safe. After all, you say you could have lost your home; and you've given EMO a chance to respond.

Sincerely
/blair

[Boomzilla]

Poor ventilation is frequently a cause of overheating leading to failure. For example, putting your amplifier directly on the carpet (so that the feet sink in, and the ventilation from bottom to top is eliminated) is a frequent cause of overheating. Another cause is environmental pollutants. I've seen electronic equipment used in homes where there are smokers where a layer of tar has accumulated, reducing heat dissipation. Pets who shed fur are also a major source of overheating.

None of these does the manufacturer have any control over. A "safety factor" is built into equipment to compensate for this, but not everything can be anticipated. Further the components in the electronic item are subject to manufacturing variations. The amplifier manufacturer has but minor influence on the component manufacturer - You can provide specifications that the supplier claims to have met, but even with the tightest specifications, there is manufacturing variability.

This is why amplifier (and other electronics) manufacturers offer warranties. In the case at hand, the item provided perfect service throughout its warranty period. When component failures do occur, they are usually of the "it just quit working" variety. This one, however, was "catastrophic" in nature and caused an internal fire.

The owner is within his rights to discuss the failure publicly if he chooses to. The manufacturer is within their rights to repair or not, as they see fit (the item was, after all, out of warranty). But as a consumer, you should be cognizant that such catastrophic failures can occur on ANY electronic item in your home. Most items are run to failure without catastrophic results, but if you're concerned about fire hazards, then you should consider replacement prior to failure. Even this is no absolute guarantee against an item catching fire, but it should minimize the risk.

UL certification has to do primarily with the security of the AC feed wiring. The 1492 standard does apply to AV gear, but is not a guarantee against catastrophic failure.

[monkumonku]

First of all, I'm glad that no one was injured and no significant damage happened as a result of this mishap. That's the most important thing.

Regarding the actual fire and many of the responses to the original post: it's all speculation. Who knows what really happened? Some are quick to jump on Emo and assume the worst, calling for an investigation into whether the UPA-2 is some fire-causing device, asking for UL to investigate, etc. This is an isolated incident. As far as I know, no one in the Lounge has reported a fire in a UPA-2; one happens and now people are calling for legislation to be put in place.

Who knows what the real facts are? Even the OP really doesn't know all the facts - perhaps something in the environment facilitated this event. Maybe the kids dropped something in the vents. I'm not saying they did, and please don't accuse me of being callous, but like I said, we don't know all the facts so people should not be so quick to judge and condemn Emo for making faulty equipment or using cheap parts or whatever.

Considering the thing caught on fire, it would be a nice gesture for Emo to offer to repair it free of charge but that's up to them and I don't think they are compelled to do so. The device is over 5 years old and as I said above, who knows what may have been in the environment that led to this incident. Send it in and let Emo take a look at it and if you feel the repair and shipping should be on their dime, talk to them about it. When you fan the flames (no pun intended) of public opinion, sure you're going to get sympathy just like how juries award millions of dollars of punitive damages in civil cases - but first talk to the company directly and try and get things settled that way.

[lynnmass603]

there is no evidence of fire from the photos only a burst cap

[bolle]

Ever seen a cap of that size burst? There IS a loud bang and fire / smoke...

[Dan Laufman]

Hello all,
We don’t normally comment on individual cases like this, but due to the seriousness of the claim, and the fact that the owner has decided to make it a public discussion before we'e even had the chance to inspect the unit, I wanted to give some background on the facts of this case.

Like all Emotiva products, the UPA-2 is fully safety certified and tested. It's design is solid and is not hazardous under normal circumstances. I don't see anything from that pictures shown other than a filter capacitor that has failed and its safety vent has ruptured. Even though this can be startling, it is exactly what it is is designed to do.

This particular UPA-2 is a year and a half outside of its 5-year warranty. So, it's six and a half years old. It was also re-sold or gifted and this owner is not the original owner.

We sent our standard RMA to get the unit back to diagnose the issue in more detail. At this point, without having the amplifier here to investigate what happened, we're in the dark. You can probably understand why we just proceeded with our standard repair and service policy for products out of warranty.

However, if we find that their is indeed an issue that warrants special treatment, we will proceed accordingly. But, we need to see the unit to make this decision. When this unit is ultimately retuned to us, we can make this decision based on the fact of the matter. Until then, we're just spinning our wheels.

I think all of you know us well enough to know that we take care of our customers and when we see the unit, we will act in the best interests of everyone involved, especially our customer.

Big Dan

[Lsc]

It's out of warranty.

Smoke or not. I think it would be unfair to all who have to service their amp after the warranty has expired if this gets special treatment.

I think it was a $300 amp brand new... I'd just replace it rather than get it repaired.

And I really think fire is a gross exaggeration. My old XPA-5 smoked when amp #5 blew. I didn't use my fire extinguisher but I did open the window to let the bad smokey smell out.

[Dan Laufman]

Lsc,
You bring up a valid point...

[garbulky]

No, it's not unfair in this particular case. It is beneficial to examine what happened when an amp creates a flame (not smoke as it appears to be downgraded it to) and I think at least free shipping should be granted at least to allow them to see where the fault lay.
If it was a ridiculous amount of dust or gunk, I can understand why Emo would be reluctant to issue a new amp. But....
I think that's worth at least $40 to Emo right? I have a UPA-2 that is quite likely close to or is out of warranty I will not feel the slightest bit jilted if the guy with the flaming UPA-2 got special treatment.

[briank]

Out of warranty means "Out of Warranty". Emotiva is not obligated to repair it for free.

That said, if it was my company I would offer to repair it for free if the customer paid shipping both ways.

[garbulky]

Not obligated but a smart move imo.

[pallpoul]

I am interested in the outcome of this case since I own 3 upa-2's. I never had a problem with my units, but would like to know if there is anything that may trigger a " re-call. in this case the unit out of warranty, however, just like in car industry if a fault is discovered years later, the companies issue a recall, mainly to protect their customers.

Emotiva has been an exemplary company in customers support, and many of us will testify to that, and I am sure if the reason for the fire was a faulty amp, they will make it right for the owner and notify others if something needs to be done for current upa-2 owners.
my 2 cents.

[DavidR]

I wonder if your 'noise' issue was from that cap that vented.

[Percussionista]

I'm kinda of this mind, depending on how much fire there was. If it was localized to the cap then maybe a repair would be reasonable. My question would be why did the cap blow - i.e., is it just an aged cap or is there something in the amp that is still there, malfing, that could cause another new cap to blow and catch fire?

I still have a Flame-linear, err, ahh, Phase Linear 400 amp that has been sitting around getting mostly dusty for probably 20 years or more. One of Bob Carver's designs. When in use I had it repaired twice, both due to output transistors going (if memory serves me right) - no fire in my case. Nasty crackling. Last time I tried it, briefly to check on some speakers, it sent scary crackling popping noises through the speakers when I turned the amp off (discharging while it was actually off!) I still offer this free of charge to any fool or enthusiast or clever electrical engineer or audio museum who would take it off my hands.

Jul 30, 2015 0:40:36 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Whatever the case I would not get that amp repaired. I doubt they would attempt a repair anyway, but if it is offered don't get it repaired. Too much of a risk.

[jasonr]

Yes, there was a flame shooting from the cap. Not just smoke. This amp has been well taken care of, in a smoke free environment, in an open room. Laid out as seen below. It is the top amp on the left. I'd be more than willing to send it in, but I might be able to purchase a different amp for what the repairs and shipping will cost.

[Lonnie]

I know that Dan has already made a statement on this but I would like to address one thing.

While I can completely understand how the OP would be startled at a filter cap venting (I have been myself). There is nothing inside the amp that is flammable and to be more specific, nothing that will actually catch fire. When a filter cap fails, there will be smoke some sparks, but it is not possible for it to actually produce fire unless there is some foreign object or material in there. Now please don't read anything into this, I am not saying anything against the OP because I am certain it appeared that way to him. But the truth is, as long as there is no foreign material in the amp, the OP, his family and his house were never in any danger. Trust me, I have seen a number of them fail over the years in testing and it is startling to say the least. There is smoke and sparks for a couple of seconds when the vent opens and I can easily see where this could be taken as a fire. You know the old saying, where there is smoke, there is fire and in general this true, but in this case, its not. All the parts are nonflammable and have to be in order to pass safety certs. So rest assured, as startling as it probably was, no one was actually in any danger.

Lonnie

[tknice]

Thanks Lonnie. I must admit when I first read this, I thought of my setup and wondered how frequently this happens. Then I wondered if my wife even knows there's a fire extinguisher downstairs haha.

[Lonnie]

Jul 30, 2015 14:06:27 GMT -5 tknice said:

Thanks Lonnie. I must admit when I first read this, I thought of my setup and wondered how frequently this happens. Then I wondered if my wife even knows there's a fire extinguisher downstairs haha.

Please don't be concerned, none of our products can actually catch on fire or they wouldn't pass safety.

But do remember that big power requires some big parts and if one goes, the affects are proportional.

[Boomzilla]

As Johnny Cash once sang: Down in a burnin' rang of fahr! LOL




Sorry... I couldn't help myself...