|
|
Post by audiobill on Aug 4, 2015 18:35:48 GMT -5
I think audiobill is just a little too sophisticated for me.. Probably true.....looking at your lineup, I suggest you consider changing your screen name to "emoman" or such. |
|
|
|
Post by teaman on Aug 4, 2015 18:43:26 GMT -5
Good idea Bill, never thought of that. Thanks for dumbing it down so I could understand.
|
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Aug 4, 2015 18:43:51 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by teaman on Aug 4, 2015 18:46:45 GMT -5
That it is gar.........and yes I do have way more tea than audio video in my house. |
|
|
|
Post by audiobill on Aug 4, 2015 18:54:20 GMT -5
Good idea Bill, never thought of that. Thanks for dumbing it down so I could understand. You are welcome...happy to assist you on your journey. |
|
djreef
Sensei
Thoroughly enjoying my Schiit
Posts: 353
|
Post by djreef on Aug 4, 2015 22:22:50 GMT -5
Emo needs to take this amp back and get to the bottom of what happened. Given the number of these amps that were sold, if there is a systemic problem they need to get their arms around it quick. If this is a QC issue they need to be aware of it. If they got a bad batch of caps, they need to know it, and take evasive to deal with it. The caps may not be flammable, but what if they had been near something that was? It only take a couple of house fires that, God forbid, kills someone to create an institutional panic. Things of such a serious nature like this can sink a company quick if consumers begin to question safety.
|
|
djreef
Sensei
Thoroughly enjoying my Schiit
Posts: 353
|
Post by djreef on Aug 4, 2015 22:36:28 GMT -5
But let's look at it. Right now the person is required to pay shipping to ship an aging $300 burnt up amp. What makes you think he's going to want anything to do with that amp, let alone paying more money towards shipping it? There are two probabilities if he does. As they made it clear it is his expense and won't spring for shipping. These are: 1. Repair the amp that caught on fire. Er, no thank you. Once burned twice shy. 2. Replace the amp. Which is kind of the same as buying a new amp. IN THAT CASE, WHY SHIP IT IN THE FIRST PLACE? So what makes anybody think that this amp would ever be investigated? Meanwhile: the thread "UPA-2 caught on fire" has been trending on the recently updated list for a week now. The negative publicity costs way more than the shipping and customer loyalty imo - even if it may just be the capacitor and it will be on the manufacturers expense. Even if Emo took back the amp and investigated it and according to their investigation found no product defect (as opposed to finding a cap blew out in the course of normal wear and tear), then what is going to guarantee anyone is going to believe them? Naysayers will just claim there is a coverup. Given the isolated nature on this incident as well as the age of the amp, along with the fact that we really do not know what the environmental conditions were like, then I wouldn't say there was justification to do any investigation or repair for free. But then that's Emo's decision anyway. So far I haven't found this to have gone viral across the internet. Automobile manufacturers do it all the time. It's no big deal, people are not going to stop buying cars. It's when someone tries to cover it up (Ford Exploder and Firestone tires) is when the doo doo flies. |
|
djreef
Sensei
Thoroughly enjoying my Schiit
Posts: 353
|
Post by djreef on Aug 4, 2015 22:43:19 GMT -5
While I agree it would be good PR to either fix or replace the amp or at the very least pay for shipping, where does it stop? Things like this cannot be looked at as an entirely isolated incident. People come across this thread and see Emotiva paid for shipping, repaired or replaced an amp for free outside of warranty then someone else will expect it. They'll cite this thread as proof Emotiva has done it before. Then Dan & Co have to either do it again to maintain goodwill or say no. If they say no, there will be threads upon threads of even worse PR complaining Emotiva is only about the money and no longer cares about their customers since they made an exception once. Emotiva cannot be expected to foot the bill for the life of the product especially after the warranty has expired. Yes, it sucks the cap blew but the item was sold and warrantied to work for 5 years and it did just that and more. Let's not forget there is no such thing as "free shipping" You simply don't see the line item for shipping. The cost is built into the price of the product. That leaves use one final alternative: Emotiva will have to increase prices to allow for free shipping for life and/or a lifetime warranty. Of course people will then be in an uproar about the price increase and Emotiva will no longer be seen as the great value it currently is. The reality is that it should have never gone this far. Any time anyone hears the word fire when dealing with electronics there needs to be a reflexive damage control mechanism in place to prevent something like this from making it's way to the public forums. This is serious sh**. |
|
|
|
Post by brutiarti on Aug 4, 2015 23:04:22 GMT -5
The problem is that people take advtantage all the time. I bet that a lot of people will say FIRE just to get their stuff replaced
|
|
|
|
Post by monkumonku on Aug 4, 2015 23:29:34 GMT -5
Emo needs to take this amp back and get to the bottom of what happened. Given the number of these amps that were sold, if there is a systemic problem they need to get their arms around it quick. If this is a QC issue they need to be aware of it. If they got a bad batch of caps, they need to know it, and take evasive to deal with it. The caps may not be flammable, but what if they had been near something that was? It only take a couple of house fires that, God forbid, kills someone to create an institutional panic. Things of such a serious nature like this can sink a company quick if consumers begin to question safety. I don't think having a Chicken Little approach to something like this is necessary. As far as we know, it's an isolated incident. Emo is aware of it. Lonnie and Dan have addressed it. If indeed there is some sort of defect with the product itself, they have other samples they could test and there have been samples in the multi-year period they could have already tested to make them aware of anything. This is an amp past warranty. Who knows what the true facts are? Even the OP may not be aware of all the facts. I am not questioning the credibility of the OP, but there could have been factors in his particular environment contributing to it. In other words, I believe Emo is taking a responsible approach to this. You can't just start running around saying the sky is falling over whatever acorns may fall. |
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on Aug 4, 2015 23:34:38 GMT -5
Really girls and boys?,,,,, Really?
|
|
stiehl11
Emo VIPs 
Give me available light!
Posts: 7,269
|
Post by stiehl11 on Aug 5, 2015 0:26:34 GMT -5
Emo needs to take this amp back and get to the bottom of what happened. Given the number of these amps that were sold, if there is a systemic problem they need to get their arms around it quick. If this is a QC issue they need to be aware of it. If they got a bad batch of caps, they need to know it, and take evasive to deal with it. The caps may not be flammable, but what if they had been near something that was? It only take a couple of house fires that, God forbid, kills someone to create an institutional panic. Things of such a serious nature like this can sink a company quick if consumers begin to question safety. One instance of premature failure does not a systemic issue make. For as long as Emotiva made the UPA-2 and for how long it's been retired (XPA-200 is slightly different and may use different caps) if there was a systemic failure of a production lot of caps we would be seeing more of these. Search the forums for "burst caps" or "fire" and you'll see that this is one of a very few (maybe even the only one) ever mentioned. I've got 3 Emotiva amps; 2 that get used every day when I get home from work to the time I go to bed and the other (a UPA-2 no less) that's on while I sleep every night. All of these are over 5 years old and I have zero concern that any of these are going to go up in flames at any time in the near future. And, I'll put my money where my mouth is: if jasonr is concerned about his other 3 amps doing the same thing I'm willing to buy all 3 at $100 each, right now, cash on the barrel head. I look at it this way; if he sends all 3 to Emotiva to be checked out he'll have to pay at least the shipping on them if not labor. Even then, is that going to buy him (and his family) piece of mind? If he tries to sell them he should disclose why he's selling them (one caught fire and he doesn't trust the other 3) which means he's not going to get much for them, especially being out of warranty. This way he gets rid of these amps, doesn't have to worry about them burning down his house, and gets cash to go buy different amps that make him happy. He's happy and I'll have 3 scary, might burn down my house at anytime, out of warranty amps. |
|
|
|
Post by geebo on Aug 5, 2015 7:45:19 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by jmilton on Aug 5, 2015 8:53:16 GMT -5
Capgate!
|
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on Aug 5, 2015 9:35:18 GMT -5
Yep! we've found the problem!!   |
|
djreef
Sensei
Thoroughly enjoying my Schiit
Posts: 353
|
Post by djreef on Aug 5, 2015 15:43:10 GMT -5
Absolutely. there's no telling how much business Onkyo has lost to bad reviews and crap customer service. Look, these issues need to be addressed before they negatively affect business and brand reputation, not after. Besides, these companies have much deeper pockets than Emotiva has. Stuff like this affects them to a much less degree because they have costs for this built in. I consider Emotiva to be a step, or two above these guys, anyway. It's important that they react in a way that is congruent with their brand image. |
|
KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,261
|
Post by KeithL on Aug 5, 2015 15:58:36 GMT -5
Capacitors fail - occasionally. And, even less often, they flare when they short. It doesn't specifically mean that it's a cheap part, or even that it's overstressed, and there's no "better" part at any price that will absolutely, positively, not do it. (A mil-spec metal-sealed glass-in-oil one would be more reliable; however, an equivalent one of those would be the size of your microwave oven, and cost an awful lot...) If you Google it, I suspect you'll find that more houses have burned down because of exploding Thanksgiving turkeys than because of burning amplifiers  (And let's not think too hard about how many compact fluorescent bulbs catch fire.) Obviously, considering how long that model has been around, and how many were sold, if this was anything more than a fluke we'd all have heard about it by now. Of course it's never pleasant if it happens to YOU. Yes, looks like a cheap cap blew up....may want to upgrade those on all those amps. |
|
|
|
Post by ÈlTwo on Aug 5, 2015 16:00:19 GMT -5
The caps may not be flammable, but what if they had been near something that was? Then the person putting inflammable material near electronics that need ventilation would be up for a Darwin Award. |
|
djreef
Sensei
Thoroughly enjoying my Schiit
Posts: 353
|
Post by djreef on Aug 5, 2015 16:04:32 GMT -5
The caps may not be flammable, but what if they had been near something that was? Then the person putting inflammable material near electronics that need ventilation would be up for a Darwin Award.Folks have particle board cabinetry, doiles, foam treatments, etc. than can all be within range of a sparking unit. C'mon we all know how fires get started. It doesn't mean the unit turns itself into a fire bomb. There just needs to be a flame and an ignition source. |
|
|
|
Post by DavidR on Aug 5, 2015 16:06:04 GMT -5
The word inflammable hasn't been used since the sixties (at least). It's obsolete. It is simply: flammable now days.
And, YES, I agree: a good candidate for the Darwin Awards
|
|
