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Post by geebo on Sept 8, 2015 7:00:33 GMT -5
Have you tried different software players to see if they could be doing something during the conversion to PCM. What player are you using in Windows?
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Post by mgbpuff on Sept 8, 2015 7:20:57 GMT -5
I really haven't detected any differences, but if there are differences to some perhaps it has something to do with the clocking. Play direct from pc may be better or worse depending on the clocking stability. CD players and media players may have more stable clocking than pc's do. The closer the clocking is to the actual playback device, or even in it, the less jitter to deal with. Long digital cables can be problematic, causing increased jitter.
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 8, 2015 8:56:09 GMT -5
It could just be that you're hearing the difference between USB and AES/EBU, back when I had my Oppo 93-NXE I had all my music ripped to an external hard drive, I experimented with connecting that hard drive via USB and eSATA, and thought it sounded slightly better via eSATA, I don't know why, I couldn't even describe what the difference sounded like, there was just something about it. This is one of the possible cause I actually thinking. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 8, 2015 9:18:07 GMT -5
I absolutely confirm that before A-B test I was completely convinced of the absence of difference but the difference hit me very hard even if I didn't expect it. I'm now sure that there is a technical and physical reason for. Please help me someone and explaining me technically why I'm not crazy! Or maybe I am... François, you stated earlier: I decided by curiosity to do an A-B testing between USB-stream from PC wav files and CD via AES/EBU, both digital decoded via the same XMC-1's inside DAC. Simultaneously start playing the same track on both sources and switching the input, I repeated this procedure for several different tracks, my logical convictions collapsed.First, most Frenchmen I know are in fact crazy!  But what has that to do with the question at hand? Are you absolutely 100% sure that both sources were played back at exactly the same volume? Did you use a SPL meter level to confirm this or did you use only your ears? Tests have shown that most folks just using their ears can be significantly off with even slight volume differences which very often skews their comparison. With a SPL meter you should with extra care be able to get within 0.25 dB's or better of equal output. Try it several times to see if there is any variation in your conclusions. Tests have also shown that a very slight difference in comparative volume level can lead us to conclude the ever so slightly louder playback to be superior. For a comparative test to see if your head is screwed on straight, have you ever noticed that the Eiffel Tower is slightly crooked?  Alexandre Gustave Eiffel, French engineer/architect.  (Note that his head/upper body is abnormally titled to one side.) You got a good point, for me the Eiffel tower is perfectly aligned straight up .  When I done the A-B test I noticed that the sound level was slightly less on USB input, approximately 2dB to my ears, each time I switched between both input I adjusted the volume by 2dB, but no I never had the idea to use my SPL meter for measuring the exact difference. You got another good point I will certainly redoing the test, thanks. I think that you're one of the most valuable audio-psychologist on this forum. |
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Post by Porscheguy on Sept 8, 2015 9:23:48 GMT -5
I have a new "high end" power cord on my CD player and that made a huge difference in the sound. Night and day. OMG!!  |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 8, 2015 9:30:14 GMT -5
Hi frenchyfranky - I'm not sure how to answer the poll. I have occasionally thought I heard differences, but they were neither consistent nor were they repeatable. Furthermore, sometimes the disc sounded better, other times the ripped file - go figure... So to my ears, there may or may not be a difference, but if there is, I can't reliably hear it. If your ears say "go disc," then do so. For reduced storage space and convenience, I've voted to go ripped. Of course, I don't save any real storage space because I store the ripped discs in the attic, but it does keep them out of my server room. Boomzilla Boom, I think that you are strange, at least as me! My ears never talk to me, instead of this I'm using them for listening what some others mouths or mine have to tell me. Hemmm very strange... |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 8, 2015 9:38:15 GMT -5
I have a new "high end" power cord on my CD player and that made a huge difference in the sound. Night and day. OMG!! Ed, You're wrong about me, I'm not that kind of person. Even if you put a smiley at the end of your text, it can't erase the sarcastic nature. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 8, 2015 9:48:05 GMT -5
Have you tried different software players to see if they could be doing something during the conversion to PCM. What player are you using in Windows? Geebo, with all the respect I have for you, if you had read completely the original post, you must know now that I'm using JRiver. And no, I didn't use different software players, I had use JRiver for ripping and playback. |
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Post by geebo on Sept 8, 2015 9:52:14 GMT -5
Have you tried different software players to see if they could be doing something during the conversion to PCM. What player are you using in Windows? Geebo, with all the respect I have for you, if you had read completely the original post, you must know now that I'm using JRiver. And no, I didn't use different software players, I had use JRiver for ripping and playback. Man, I just totally missed that and even looked at the post again before asking the question. Maybe I just skimmed past the ripping part looking for a playing part. At any rate I just plain missed it. Sorry 'bout that. But I guess that's still something different in the chain. The players. Have you tried playing the CD in your computer's drive using jRiver and comparing it to the rip? |
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Post by Porscheguy on Sept 8, 2015 9:54:34 GMT -5
I have a new "high end" power cord on my CD player and that made a huge difference in the sound. Night and day. OMG!! Ed, You're wrong about me, I'm not that kind of person. Even if you put a smiley at the end of your text, it can't erase the sarcastic nature. C'mon, it's a joke. I've spent endless amounts of time comparing my CD's to my NAS server which they are all ripped lossless to. I have a hard time hearing any difference - really good ones sound good and bad ones sound bad. Even with my Sonos system I think it's sounds great. I use one of their (Sonos) amps in one room with some Snell monitors and the Sonos sub and it's great. I have a Diana Krall CD (Best of) that is a superb recording. I ripped to my NAS and also downloaded a few songs from iTunes (AAC) and compared all three and they were all pretty darn close if you ask me. Yup, the AAC sounded pretty darn good. I guess I have tired of the endless quest for the holy grail of sound and I'm just enjoying the music. Didn't mean to offend... |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 8, 2015 9:59:41 GMT -5
Geebo, with all the respect I have for you, if you had read completely the original post, you must know now that I'm using JRiver. And no, I didn't use different software players, I had use JRiver for ripping and playback. Man, I just totally missed that and even looked at the post again before asking the question. Maybe I just skimmed past the ripping part looking for a playing part. At any rate I just plain missed it. Sorry 'bout that. Come on, no need here for apologize. Have you answered at the poll "No, my ears are to old"? Because your eyes becomes older too... |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 8, 2015 10:05:01 GMT -5
Ed, You're wrong about me, I'm not that kind of person. Even if you put a smiley at the end of your text, it can't erase the sarcastic nature. C'mon, it's a joke. I've spent endless amounts of time comparing my CD's to my NAS server which they are all ripped lossless to. I have a hard time hearing any difference - really good ones sound good and bad ones sound bad. Even with my Sonos system I think it's sounds great. I use one of their (Sonos) amps in one room with some Snell monitors and the Sonos sub and it's great. I have a Diana Krall CD (Best of) that is a superb recording. I ripped to my NAS and also downloaded a few songs from iTunes (AAC) and compared all three and they were all pretty darn close if you ask me. Yup, the AAC sounded pretty darn good. I guess I have tired of the endless quest for the holy grail of sound and I'm just enjoying the music.Didn't mean to offend... Most of the time it is what I'm doing, but this time I have failed. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 8, 2015 10:14:23 GMT -5
No geebo , I didn't try to directly playing the CD in my PC for doing the A-B test, because it's in my CD player, I will never get the chance to compare it simultaneously, if I find a second identical CD from a friend, I'll try it |
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Post by geebo on Sept 8, 2015 10:15:47 GMT -5
Man, I just totally missed that and even looked at the post again before asking the question. Maybe I just skimmed past the ripping part looking for a playing part. At any rate I just plain missed it. Sorry 'bout that. Come on, no need here for apologize. Have you answered at the poll "No, my ears are to old"? Because your eyes becomes older too... It's not so much the seeing part as it is the paying-attention-to-what-I-see part. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 8, 2015 10:18:29 GMT -5
Come on, no need here for apologize. Have you answered at the poll "No, my ears are to old"? Because your eyes becomes older too... It's not so much the seeing part as it is the paying-attention-to-what-I-see part. Yea I know, it's another effect of getting older, I myself realized that. |
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Post by Loop 7 on Sept 8, 2015 13:57:56 GMT -5
Lossless files sound better than CD even when using the same DAC. I think this is due to Amarra.
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Post by mshump on Sept 8, 2015 14:17:51 GMT -5
Since you are using Jriver, have you checked all the settings in Jriver? There are equalizers, DSP studios, etc on that program that could effect the output.
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Post by Boomzilla on Sept 8, 2015 15:45:57 GMT -5
...My ears never talk to me... I've got all sorts of body parts that talk to me - but I can promise you wouldn't want to hear them... |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 8, 2015 16:06:56 GMT -5
Since you are using Jriver, have you checked all the settings in Jriver? There are equalizers, DSP studios, etc on that program that could effect the output. I'll make the verification but I'm pretty sure that all the settings are neutral. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Sept 10, 2015 9:27:07 GMT -5
Since you are using Jriver, have you checked all the settings in Jriver? There are equalizers, DSP studios, etc on that program that could effect the output. I had verify the settings and all the audio options are disabled. So , no risk of audio modification at the playback. |
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