Animo
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Post by Animo on Apr 23, 2009 17:29:25 GMT -5
But what about all the rock records mixed by half-deaf engineers? Blisteringly bright. Or a record mixed in the 80's with less low end? What's sacred about not adjusting your bass or treble? The mixer may have been wrong, or working from a place that does not make sense now... Make it sound good to your ears, I think. Dann, That is an excellent point. I mentioned in another thread how my Sansui G9000 receiver from 1978 has more bass energy than my Outlaw 970/XPA-2 combo. On my Sansui, I have the midrange and treble set to 0 (flat), and I detenuate the bass by about -4db. With the Outlaw/XPA-2 combo, I leave the treble flat and add +6db to the bass. It has also been mentioned to me that the older amps had bumps built into the frequency response, whereas many of today's amps, especially the XPA-2, have a flat frequency response. I believe in the old days, this was to enhance the lower end. This could be why many "vintage" amps and receivers, sound better on "vintage" speakers. |
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Post by cyclismo on Apr 23, 2009 18:08:20 GMT -5
MMC-1 here. JM Labs/Focal & B&W speakers, Velodyne sub. Have to say, never use the tone controls. Everything flat. I certainly see the point made about variances in recorded material but I just never felt that anything had to be cut or boosted.
On that note (ahem), if you need more bass, cut the treble. Need more treble, cut the bass. Always better to cut than to boost a signal when EQing.
Dann, is there any data on what the Q and center freq. are for bass and treble on the various processors?
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Post by flamingeye on Apr 23, 2009 18:47:30 GMT -5
Me personally if I want more bass I raise the sub volume using the pre/pro & if I need more treble I lower the sub volume
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Post by indyscammer on Apr 23, 2009 20:53:21 GMT -5
I have not found a need to boost either on my system. I do from time to time adjust bass output at my sub (usually when the spousal unit yells at me) but that is because it is far easier to get to...just a push of a button on top of the sub.  ;D |
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Post by bourbonncigars on Apr 28, 2009 19:35:18 GMT -5
I never use tone controls. + 1. Uh, oh. We're in sensitive territory now. My view on it?.... If you touch the tone controls, you should get a 5 million amp shock from your preamp or receiver that reminds you why you went with that particular brand in the first place. In my opinion, they alter the very sound you were looking for. If you auditioned correctly and knew what you were looking for, you only need the raw processing power of the chips and other components involved. Sure, room acoustics may play a part, but the core sound is more important. I think the tone controls are the devil. Furthermore, (excuse me while I put my flamesuit on) I'm still not convinced that room correction is for me either. I may have a more hardcore outlook than most about this subject, but it's only from experience dealing with numerous home theater components over almost two decades. I guess I'll say a properly implemented room correction system could have benefits, but I'd have to see them for myself to be sure. Honestly, this is an area I have the least amount of experience with, only having dealt with it in two different components. Bottom line: LEAVE THOSE DAMN BASS AND TREBLE CONTROLS ALONE!!!!! (IMO, only) ;D |
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Apr 28, 2009 19:43:58 GMT -5
I never use tone controls. + 1. Uh, oh. We're in sensitive territory now. My view on it?.... If you touch the tone controls, you should get a 5 million amp shock from your preamp or receiver that reminds you why you went with that particular brand in the first place. In my opinion, they alter the very sound you were looking for. If you auditioned correctly and knew what you were looking for, you only need the raw processing power of the chips and other components involved. Sure, room acoustics may play a part, but the core sound is more important. I think the tone controls are the devil. Furthermore, (excuse me while I put my flamesuit on) I'm still not convinced that room correction is for me either. I may have a more hardcore outlook than most about this subject, but it's only from experience dealing with numerous home theater components over almost two decades. I guess I'll say a properly implemented room correction system could have benefits, but I'd have to see them for myself to be sure. Honestly, this is an area I have the least amount of experience with, only having dealt with it in two different components. Bottom line: LEAVE THOSE DAMN BASS AND TREBLE CONTROLS ALONE!!!!! (IMO, only) ;D So...by saying this, you're saying whoever mixed the particular record you're listening to is the ultimate authority on bass and treble, and that if you change the setting, you are transgressing? 'Bass' and 'treble' are soooooooo subjective to whoever's recording and mixing the album...the conditions can be a huge variable...the speakers used for playback, and the audience/style it's recorded for play a part in how bright or boomy a record is. And just the preference of the engineer. I know guys who think everything should sound dark, and guys who think everything should be tweaked to treble high-heaven. I know of a VERY famous guitarist who records solo albums that are...BRIGHT. Why? Because he's roasted his hearing above 6k. I've seen his audiogram. I'm seen him argue with his wife and engineer about his records being mixed waaaaaaay to bright in the high end. Listening to those CDs 'as is' can be rather painful. He doesn't care. He's mixing it to sound good to himself. He also cuts a HUGE gouge out of EVERYTHING at 500hZ. But...to each his own...sacred cows are kind of funky. One of mine is putting ice in whiskey. Why would you do that? When it gets cold, the entire flavor profile changes...the people who inventing distilling surely didn't add ice...they drank it just the way it was, with maybe a tiny few drops of water to open up the flavors. They would probably freak out to know that ice is being added, and both diluting the flavor AND numbing the imbiber's palate...  |
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selkec
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Post by selkec on Apr 28, 2009 20:05:09 GMT -5
if you need more bass, cut the treble. Need more treble, cut the bass. Always better to cut than to boost a signal when EQing. How does this make any sense? Cut the treble to get more bass? Need more bass cut the treble? Taking something away does not make more of another. Why are you all so set on not messing with the controls? Do you go to concerts and tell the sound guy to put the EQ flat because you dont like any EQing?  |
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Apr 28, 2009 20:14:44 GMT -5
if you need more bass, cut the treble. Need more treble, cut the bass. Always better to cut than to boost a signal when EQing. How does this make any sense? Cut the treble to get more bass? Need more bass cut the treble? Taking something away does not make more of another. Why are you all so set on not messing with the controls? Do you go to concerts and tell the sound guy to put the EQ flat because you dont like any EQing? Everything is EQ'd...that was my point...it's about personal preference. Some people like subwoofers, jacked waaaaay up. Some prefer a less overpowering low end. The important thing is that whoever mixed the record got close, and there's enough bass and treble there to be boosted if someone wants it, and that cutting either a bit doesn't destroy the sound, either. Some people go to a steakhouse, and pour ketchup on a $50 steak...something that might anger another patron, or offend the cook/chef. But don't argue with the ketchup guy...he likes his damn steak covered with ketchup! I generally leave my EQ alone, but if it needs a cut or boost...why not? My speakers/amp/room have little or nothing in common with the speakers/amp/room used to mix the music...why should I expect it to sound exactly the same? Why should I not make it more pleasant to my ears if needed? |
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Post by bourbonncigars on Apr 28, 2009 20:17:47 GMT -5
Dann - your points are valid, no doubt. I've just never been a fan of altering the intended sound of the equipment. I've yet to run across any need to change the tone controls. However, keep in mind that my rig is used for 100% movies, which are far less "tone sensitive" than music. That may explain my views.
Now, since you're the one who brought up whiskey....
Obviously, may avatar and name here reveal the fact that I like drinking and smoking. I do put ice in my bourbon. Not only that, but I keep it in the freezer (I bet you're grabbing your heart right about now). I enjoy the refreshingness (I made that word up) and coldness of it that way, especially smoking a cigar outside in the humid summer in Mississippi. The heat from the cigar is offset by the cool temp of the bourbon. Drinking without smoking is a little different. Then I may enjoy it at room temp in my favorite drinking glass.
Have we gone off topic?
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Apr 28, 2009 20:23:38 GMT -5
Dann - your points are valid, no doubt. I've just never been a fan of altering the intended sound of the equipment. I've yet to run across any need to change the tone controls. However, keep in mind that my rig is used for 100% movies, which are far less "tone sensitive" than music. That may explain my views. Now, since you're the one who brought up whiskey.... Obviously, may avatar and name here reveal the fact that I like drinking and smoking. I do put ice in my bourbon. Not only that, but I keep it in the freezer (I bet you're grabbing your heart right about now). I enjoy the refreshingness (I made that word up) and coldness of it that way, especially smoking a cigar outside in the humid summer in Mississippi. The heat from the cigar is offset by the cool temp of the bourbon. Drinking without smoking is a little different. Then I may enjoy it at room temp in my favorite drinking glass. Have we gone off topic? Yes, off topic, but pleasantly so! ;D I guess my point was 'to each his own'. I read an interview with Stevie Ray Vaughn's amp tech years ago. He said SRV wanted every knob on any of his amps on '6', regardless of what it sounded like. He wanted it just a little over halfway. So...his tech would adjust the amps to where they sounded good with everything set on '6', and never discuss with SRV....ha! I wonder what a good list of 'unmentionables' would be...like the ketchup/steak thing... |
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Post by bourbonncigars on Apr 28, 2009 20:27:34 GMT -5
You know, your mention of ketchup/steak brings up a valid point in our current tone control discussion. A point that actually sways the argument in your favor.
A properly cooked steak requires no ketchup or sauce. One that is less then desirable does.
Not sure if that was intended or not, Dann, but well played nonetheless.
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Apr 28, 2009 20:29:36 GMT -5
Dann - your points are valid, no doubt. I've just never been a fan of altering the intended sound of the equipment. I've yet to run across any need to change the tone controls. However, keep in mind that my rig is used for 100% movies, which are far less "tone sensitive" than music. That may explain my views. Now, since you're the one who brought up whiskey.... Obviously, may avatar and name here reveal the fact that I like drinking and smoking. I do put ice in my bourbon. Not only that, but I keep it in the freezer (I bet you're grabbing your heart right about now). I enjoy the refreshingness (I made that word up) and coldness of it that way, especially smoking a cigar outside in the humid summer in Mississippi. The heat from the cigar is offset by the cool temp of the bourbon. Drinking without smoking is a little different. Then I may enjoy it at room temp in my favorite drinking glass. Have we gone off topic? Good gear is a good point, though. Poopy gear makes nothing sound good, and endless tweaking is necessary to make it bearable. Also, much of what I'm saying refers to rock records, which are all over the place, EQ-wise. |
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Post by bourbonncigars on Apr 28, 2009 20:34:21 GMT -5
No matter what conclusion we come to (if any), it can't stop me from enjoying my cold glass of bourbon and my cigar. : )
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Apr 28, 2009 20:37:25 GMT -5
No matter what conclusion we come to (if any), it can't stop me from enjoying my cold glass of bourbon and my cigar. : ) ;D |
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RadTech
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Post by RadTech on Apr 29, 2009 7:44:49 GMT -5
I'm a bass head. ;D I can't stand the treble sizzling your head off.I listen to mostly rock and, Dann is absolutely right. Most rock and metal albums are to bright often, lacking low end. I tone down the treble , turn up the bass a hair and, raise my sub level. However, I really don't like using my sub for 2 channel listening so, I find my self jacking up the bass a little more. I really attribute this to my speakers. My Polk RTi 10 s are a bright speaker with, little low end capability to start with so, I guess I'm compensating for what they are lacking. I also often listen to music through my PC. I set it on shuffle and hit play. The media player may volume match but doesn't make up for the differences in EQing of the various albums. It is very apparent when shuffling from one song to the next and I find myself constantly having to adjust the bass and treble.
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Post by jimbailey on Apr 29, 2009 8:59:49 GMT -5
Used to be that the goal of "hi-fi" was to reproduce acoustic instruments as closely as possible to the sound you would get if they were in the room with you. When electric/electronic instruments came on the scene, all bets were off. Every player/group went for the "sound" they liked, and the recording mix was just another tool to that end. There was no longer any live standard with which to compare end-user reproduction. So, why not adjust the EQ to whatever sounds good to you? It's just one more subjective link in the chain which starts with the original performance.
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Post by flamingeye on Apr 29, 2009 10:40:23 GMT -5
In any case it`s good to have options so you can make the sound yours/pleasing to you , with out options or controls then you are left at the mercy of the recorded mix, equipment set defaults & room , the room is your only option in changing the sound except maybe changing the equipment which in ether case can get expensive , I for one would like options & or controls to make the music to my liking that is one of the reasons I prefer having more options on my pre/pro even if I may not use it ,it`s better to have it & not need it then need it & not have it ,just my .02
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darkvisions
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Post by darkvisions on Apr 29, 2009 11:07:07 GMT -5
I have each source on my Anthem set up so I can listen to direct and bypass all processing for CDs or Concert DVDs that sound good to me as is. Or I use the Anthem processing with tone controls enabled for the crappy recordings.
Of course what sounds good to me might sound crappy to you and visa-versa....as hearing is subjective.
That is why I can't understand why I have read on other forums people saying our ears should be the last thing to use to judge equipment....doesn't make sense to me as we all hear differently...
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Post by ralflar on May 31, 2009 5:50:58 GMT -5
My pre-amp does not have any tone controls. Fewer parts in the path, less potential damage to the signal.
With previous gear which did have tone controls I left them flat almost all of the time. I could not be bothered to get up and adjust them for each record.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2009 20:07:55 GMT -5
selkec, the title of this thread should say "what 's your bass and treble set to?" or if you really are surprised that people set these, you could say "What? Your bass and treble (are) set too?" Sorry but I am a grammer Nazi... so all I can say is: "No posts for you!" "Come back 1 year"... ;D ;D ;D Sorry Hemster but a little correction: The title of this thread should " read" (instead of says)..........your bass and treble set " to" is ending a sentence with a preposition. Shame on you! Also, you mispelled "grammar." Report to Colonel Klink immediately. ;D ;D ;D (let he who is without sin cast the first stone) |
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