ilok
Minor Hero
Posts: 64 
|
Post by ilok on Nov 7, 2015 21:44:49 GMT -5
So I've been experimenting with high end equipment and learning a lot... sigh. We are talking $3000-$4000 amp/DACs.
But my system have now settled with 2 Focal SM9 and an Emotiva XDA-2. Sounded pretty good on 120V, better on balanced 120V. But then I switched to 240V, and.... WOW.
This system have never sounded this good, extremely emotionally engaging., I find my self playing my entire playlist for hours on end. Previous setup I had may have sounded better, but was nowhere near this engaging...
Weird...
|
|
|
|
Post by wilburthegoose on Nov 7, 2015 22:07:13 GMT -5
How's the power bill?  |
|
ilok
Minor Hero
Posts: 64
|
Post by ilok on Nov 7, 2015 22:12:02 GMT -5
Should be lower since 240v increases the efficiency of the power supply right? They do feel cooler to the touch  Or maybe it's just the weather. |
|
|
|
Post by wilburthegoose on Nov 8, 2015 10:08:41 GMT -5
What outlets are you using?
|
|
|
|
Post by Chuck Elliot on Nov 8, 2015 13:44:16 GMT -5
A power transformer that is capable of both 120V and 240V usually has 2 sets of primary windings. If these windings are put is series they are used for 240V operation and if put in parallel they are used for 120V.
The output of the transformer is determined by the turns ratio of the primary and secondary.
If there are 10 turns of the primary for every turn on the secondary then the output will be 1/10th the input voltage.
If we now wire for 240V operation there will be 20 turns of the primary for every turn of the secondary or 1/20th the input voltage.
Sounds different, but it’s not: 120/10 = 240/20
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 8, 2015 17:42:59 GMT -5
I've considered running a small sub panel with 240 and 110 to my AV center, power what you can on 240 and the rest on 120, all with a common ground. I wouldn't expect it to sound different, but possibly use a slightly lesser amount of power. However at this point I'm reducing my equipment footprint, and getting around to that is getting low on the list, I already have a dedicated 20A that works well. Glad that it's working out for you.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chuck Elliot on Nov 8, 2015 17:57:23 GMT -5
Power Companies bill on wattage not current draw!
The amount of "work" or wattage(VA) is the same on a 120V circuit drawing 10A as it is on a 240V circuit drawing 5A.
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 8, 2015 18:12:40 GMT -5
I didn't mean that I would save money, but servers do use less power at 240 and can save money for a large data center.
|
|
|
|
Post by Chuck Elliot on Nov 8, 2015 18:33:23 GMT -5
I didn't mean that I would save money, but servers do use less power at 240 and can save money for a large data center. The only way it can save money is on long transmission length at high current levels. This is why AC is transmitted at very high voltage levels and then stepped down at the destination. I do imagine that a larger server-farm with high current needs could have high drops even inside the building where housed, but this serves no practical purpose when dealing with a 15 or 20A line. |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 8, 2015 19:20:29 GMT -5
I didn't mean that I would save money, but servers do use less power at 240 and can save money for a large data center. The only way it can save money is on long transmission length at high current levels. This is why AC is transmitted at very high voltage levels and then stepped down at the destination. I do imagine that a larger server-farm with high current needs could have high drops even inside the building where housed, but this serves no practical purpose when dealing with a 15 or 20A line. There are a lot of papers on this, it's not huge, but here's a quote from one of them (though I think the G5 is several years old). "To satisfy global markets, virtually all IT equipment today is rated to work with input power voltages ranging from 100V to 240V AC. The higher the voltage, the more efficiently the unit operates. For example, an HP ProLiant DL380 Generation 5 server operates at 82 percent efficiency at 120V, 84 percent efficiency at 208V and 85 percent at 230V." |
|
|
|
Post by MusicHead on Nov 8, 2015 20:10:10 GMT -5
One of the reason why higher voltage is better given the same power, is that you work al lower current.
Current is what causes losses, as every conductor has a resistance and the higher the current the higher the voltage dropped and then power wasted, as V= R*I and P=R*I2(square)
With AC power it is slightly different, as you have to consider also the angle (phase) between voltage and current.
However, it is still true that if the power supply of a certain equipment needs say 1,000 Watts, you are drawing around 8.3A from your wall outlet at 120V (P= V*I, so I= P/I or 1000/120= 8.33A), while you need half of that at 240V.
At lower current you are minimizing all the inevitable losses due to non ideal conductor, switches, connectors and components which present a resistance to the flow of current.
Did not mean to lecture, just sharing some basics :-)
|
|
|
|
Post by Chuck Elliot on Nov 8, 2015 20:26:44 GMT -5
I agree with both of you to some degree. There are MINOR efficiency gains that may be achieved by using a higher input voltage, but pertaining to the OP:
Should the sound be any different from a given piece of equipment? NO!
Will there be a noticeable reduction in power bill? NO!
Conclusion: It's not worth wiring your equipment for 240V!!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by MusicHead on Nov 8, 2015 20:59:02 GMT -5
I was not implying that 240V improves the sound :-)
Just explaining why, in general, working at higher voltages has advantages when it comes to power supplies.
|
|
|
|
Post by audiosyndrome on Nov 8, 2015 21:02:15 GMT -5
I agree with both of you to some degree. There are MINOR efficiency gains that may be achieved by using a higher input voltage, but pertaining to the OP: Should the sound be any different from a given piece of equipment? NO! Will there be a noticeable reduction in power bill? NO! Conclusion: It's not worth wiring your equipment for 240V!!!! A 240 VAC supply can be advantageous if your AV center is some distance from the breaker panel (mine is 55-feet). Since voltage is double current is half thus reducing the IR drop in the feed to the equipment. This may be beneficial under a heavy load condition. Russ |
|
|
|
Post by rocky500 on Nov 8, 2015 21:07:08 GMT -5
This could be why Emotiva products sound better in Australia as we are averaging 250V!  |
|
|
|
Post by lionear on Nov 9, 2015 19:05:00 GMT -5
So I've been experimenting with high end equipment and learning a lot... sigh. We are talking $3000-$4000 amp/DACs. But my system have now settled with 2 Focal SM9 and an Emotiva XDA-2. Sounded pretty good on 120V, better on balanced 120V. But then I switched to 240V, and.... WOW. This system have never sounded this good, extremely emotionally engaging., I find my self playing my entire playlist for hours on end. Previous setup I had may have sounded better, but was nowhere near this engaging... Weird... Very interesting post. Many years go, HP reviewed a Mark Levinson amp that could be used at 110V or 220V. (Years ago, that was not a very common feature.) He reported that the amp sounded better at 220V, too. When I read that, I was living in a country where the mains was 220V and I forgot all about that. Now that I'm in the US, it makes me think about running my audio gear off 220V.... Thanks for the info. |
|
ilok
Minor Hero
Posts: 64
|
Post by ilok on Nov 9, 2015 22:29:26 GMT -5
So I've been experimenting with high end equipment and learning a lot... sigh. We are talking $3000-$4000 amp/DACs. But my system have now settled with 2 Focal SM9 and an Emotiva XDA-2. Sounded pretty good on 120V, better on balanced 120V. But then I switched to 240V, and.... WOW. This system have never sounded this good, extremely emotionally engaging., I find my self playing my entire playlist for hours on end. Previous setup I had may have sounded better, but was nowhere near this engaging... Weird... Very interesting post. Many years go, HP reviewed a Mark Levinson amp that could be used at 110V or 220V. (Years ago, that was not a very common feature.) He reported that the amp sounded better at 220V, too. When I read that, I was living in a country where the mains was 220V and I forgot all about that. Now that I'm in the US, it makes me think about running my audio gear off 220V.... Thanks for the info. American 240V is balanced! The difference was so huge I was like huh, what happened.... |
|
bootman
Emo VIPs 
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Nov 10, 2015 8:58:45 GMT -5
Very interesting post. Many years go, HP reviewed a Mark Levinson amp that could be used at 110V or 220V. (Years ago, that was not a very common feature.) He reported that the amp sounded better at 220V, too. When I read that, I was living in a country where the mains was 220V and I forgot all about that. Now that I'm in the US, it makes me think about running my audio gear off 220V.... Thanks for the info. American 240V is balanced! The difference was so huge I was like huh, what happened.... The balanced power is what gives you the difference vs just the voltage change alone. Equi=Tech has some write ups if anyone is interested on the topic. equitech.com/ |
|
|
|
Post by ÈlTwo on Nov 10, 2015 9:02:29 GMT -5
Next I expect Edison and Westinghouse to post in this thread.  |
|
bootman
Emo VIPs
Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
|
Post by bootman on Nov 10, 2015 9:22:44 GMT -5
If I had to do my HT power all over again, I would just get one of these furman units. (I currently run everything off a Furman power surge protector) Not cheap at 3K but it will do everything with a single 240V input. www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=04&id=IT-REF_16Ei  |
|
Or maybe it's just the weather.
