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Post by kkennally on Nov 18, 2015 11:10:50 GMT -5
Anyone with a DC-1 answer this question for me. I have noticed when using the volume control on the front panel of my DC-1 (not remote control) that when clicking each adjustment it seems to skip increase/decrease. For example, adjusting volume from -22.00 down to -19.5 as I click through it will go -22.00 one click -21.50 one click -21.50 one click -21.00. seems to skip over adjustments.
Is this normal?
Started using my DC-1 without remote when I discovered this.
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Post by geebo on Nov 18, 2015 11:31:53 GMT -5
Anyone with a DC-1 answer this question for me. I have noticed when using the volume control on the front panel of my DC-1 (not remote control) that when clicking each adjustment it seems to skip increase/decrease. For example, adjusting volume from -22.00 down to -19.5 as I click through it will go -22.00 one click -21.50 one click -21.50 one click -21.00. seems to skip over adjustments. Is this normal? Started using my DC-1 without remote when I discovered this. I'll try to remember to try it tonight on mine if no one else does before then. |
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Post by garbulky on Nov 18, 2015 12:23:18 GMT -5
Hmmm...I'll check and see too tonight. I suspect it's normal
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Post by gld3gld3 on Nov 18, 2015 12:46:01 GMT -5
Mine does the same thing. Sometimes a single click in the turn doesn't seem to register.
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Lonnie
Emo Staff 
admin
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Post by Lonnie on Nov 18, 2015 12:46:06 GMT -5
Anyone with a DC-1 answer this question for me. I have noticed when using the volume control on the front panel of my DC-1 (not remote control) that when clicking each adjustment it seems to skip increase/decrease. For example, adjusting volume from -22.00 down to -19.5 as I click through it will go -22.00 one click -21.50 one click -21.50 one click -21.00. seems to skip over adjustments. Is this normal? Started using my DC-1 without remote when I discovered this. Yep you are correct. It does and it doesn't skip steps as it were. The deal is this. The very first DC-1 had an adjustment of 0.25db volume steps and people complained about it so we just deleted that step and now it adjust in 0.5db steps. Hope this helps. Lonnie |
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Post by kkennally on Nov 18, 2015 14:46:22 GMT -5
Anyone with a DC-1 answer this question for me. I have noticed when using the volume control on the front panel of my DC-1 (not remote control) that when clicking each adjustment it seems to skip increase/decrease. For example, adjusting volume from -22.00 down to -19.5 as I click through it will go -22.00 one click -21.50 one click -21.50 one click -21.00. seems to skip over adjustments. Is this normal? Started using my DC-1 without remote when I discovered this. Yep you are correct. It does and it doesn't skip steps as it were. The deal is this. The very first DC-1 had an adjustment of 0.25db volume steps and people complained about it so we just deleted that step and now it adjust in 0.5db steps. Hope this helps. Lonnie Good to hear....Thanks! |
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hemster
Global Moderator
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...still listening... still watching
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Post by hemster on Nov 18, 2015 15:30:50 GMT -5
I have one of the early models and mine does adjust in 0.25db steps. I don't mind that however. The volume comes on to the last setting when the unit is switched on from cold. This suits me fine.
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Post by GreenKiwi on Nov 19, 2015 18:26:37 GMT -5
My guess is that the physical clicks aren't associated with the actual changes. The knob probably has an optical encoder in it for measuring changes and they have attempted to match it to the clicks (and sometimes the travel isn't enough).
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Post by anwklo on Nov 20, 2015 21:07:10 GMT -5
Anyone with a DC-1 answer this question for me. I have noticed when using the volume control on the front panel of my DC-1 (not remote control) that when clicking each adjustment it seems to skip increase/decrease. For example, adjusting volume from -22.00 down to -19.5 as I click through it will go -22.00 one click -21.50 one click -21.50 one click -21.00. seems to skip over adjustments. Is this normal? Started using my DC-1 without remote when I discovered this. Yep you are correct. It does and it doesn't skip steps as it were. The deal is this. The very first DC-1 had an adjustment of 0.25db volume steps and people complained about it so we just deleted that step and now it adjust in 0.5db steps. Hope this helps. Lonnie I don't mine. How can the adjustment of 0.25db volume steps be re-activated please? |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 21, 2015 3:42:16 GMT -5
... How can the adjustment of 0.25db volume steps be re-activated please? It would be a rare individual who could hear the difference between a 0.25 and a 0.5 dB variation. |
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Post by anwklo on Nov 21, 2015 5:20:21 GMT -5
... How can the adjustment of 0.25db volume steps be re-activated please? It would be a rare individual who could hear the difference between a 0.25 and a 0.5 dB variation. I see |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 21, 2015 6:24:43 GMT -5
... How can the adjustment of 0.25db volume steps be re-activated please? It would be a rare individual who could hear the difference between a 0.25 and a 0.5 dB variation. I guess that makes me rare. (Even at my old age my hearing is exceptional.)  I own the Emotiva XDA-2 DAC, which has volume adjustments for both speakers and heaphones in 0.25 increments. I would not want Emo/Lonnie to change this. I have always used a 0.25dB difference in my tests/settings for my systems. I never set my speakers by ear but always use a sound level meter. If one is very picky (I am), you can get down to 0.25 or very close with extra care such as having the meter on a tripod. etc. I like having the 0.25 setting available when doing comparison tests. As I have mentioned here before I'm very picky about having all 5 speakers matched and at the same exact level. I read before that 0.25 is the smallest difference a human can sometimes detect using extra care. I just did some quick testing with my XDA-2 and a pair of very good closed ear headphones as well as my near field XDA-2/Airmotiv 4S (about 30 inches away). I used mainly steady sounds/tones such a 1000Hz tone, pink, white and brown noise (no turquoise noise) and some 288, 432, 528 and 963Hz meditation music. My room is dead quiet, no sound from outside or the neighbors and all appliances off. It was difficult but I most of the time was able to hear the very slight difference as I went up or down by 0.25dB's. The steady tone was the most obvious and the brown noise was the most difficult and I was not always able to detect any difference.. The headphones made it slightly easier to hear the difference but I was still surprised that I was able to hear the very slight difference with the speakers. I realize this would be not possible with most music but IMO I like to have it down to this small margin for extra precision. Many might not care but just wanted to post my tests for those who might be interested.  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Nov 23, 2015 7:21:46 GMT -5
... I realize this would be not possible with most music but IMO I like to have it down to this small margin for extra precision. You are right that that certain people with certain frequencies at certain levels might hear this, and if you're balancing test tones being as accurate as possible is desirable (though with white/pink noise it's difficult to measure with this kind of accuracy). I was indeed generalizing for music or program, where 1 dB would typically be the noticeable difference. I don't mind the 0.25 steps on the XDA-2 as I don't move my volume a lot, but I would probably prefer 0.5 when I do. |
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ilok
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Post by ilok on Dec 2, 2015 11:56:14 GMT -5
... How can the adjustment of 0.25db volume steps be re-activated please? It would be a rare individual who could hear the difference between a 0.25 and a 0.5 dB variation. On an accurate, recording studio setup, .25 db is very audible. On an audiophile setup, not so much. |
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Post by monkumonku on Dec 2, 2015 12:09:28 GMT -5
It would be a rare individual who could hear the difference between a 0.25 and a 0.5 dB variation. On an accurate, recording studio setup, .25 db is very audible. On an audiophile setup, not so much. Why would there be a difference? Isn't a .25 db difference/variation the same in situation A as it would be in situation B? |
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Post by garbulky on Dec 2, 2015 12:43:29 GMT -5
I think the bigger issue is nmot if it's detectable but why would you need to do it in regular listening? My preferences are normal volume. Soft volume. Loud volume.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Dec 2, 2015 14:46:07 GMT -5
It would be a rare individual who could hear the difference between a 0.25 and a 0.5 dB variation. On an accurate, recording studio setup, .25 db is very audible. On an audiophile setup, not so much. I have yet to hear that promoted as an accepted fact. Under most normal conditions, frequencies, and levels, 1 dB is accepted as the minimum difference in SPL that is audible. Under controlled conditions, with specific program and frequencies, a 0.5 dB change in SPL can be detected. I found one reference that at 5KHz and at specific SPLs a 0.25 dB change was audible. This however means listening to test tones under test conditions, which likely would not include music, dialog, or any normal program. If you've heard this difference I won't dispute you (though I might argue with 'very audible'), but references to human studies would be more convincing. In the context of the question at hand, I'd stick by my original statement. Here's an excerpt from one discussion which referenced several studies over a long period, it shows that newer measurements generally showed that smaller differences could be detected (likely due to better or different test conditions and measurements). However a 0.5 to 1 dB SPL difference still appears to be the JND (just noticeable difference) under most normal (even laboratory) conditions. This agrees with most information I've studied, read and experienced over many years. "Speaking now in terms of dB SPL, the minimum discernable changes by the human ear/brain mechanism I've seen in the research that I've reviewed ranged from about 0.5 dB to 3 dB, depending on a number of factors."
Study Authors / Year Published / Min. Detectable Fluctuation
Reisz / 1928 / ~1 dB
Dimmick & Olson / 1941 / JND = 1.5 dB to 3 dB
Atal, et. al. / 1962 / ~ 1 dB
Jestaedt, et. al. / 1977 / JND @ 80 dB = 0.5 dB JND @ 5 dB = 1.5 dB
Toole and Olive / 1988 / .25 dB for a 5kHz resonance, Q = 1www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/human-hearing-amplitude-sensitivity-part-1 |
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Post by yves on Dec 2, 2015 17:15:49 GMT -5
On an accurate, recording studio setup, .25 db is very audible. On an audiophile setup, not so much. I have yet to hear that promoted as an accepted fact. Under most normal conditions, frequencies, and levels, 1 dB is accepted as the minimum difference in SPL that is audible. Under controlled conditions, with specific program and frequencies, a 0.5 dB change in SPL can be detected. I found one reference that at 5KHz and at specific SPLs a 0.25 dB change was audible. This however means listening to test tones under test conditions, which likely would not include music, dialog, or any normal program. If you've heard this difference I won't dispute you (though I might argue with 'very audible'), but references to human studies would be more convincing. In the context of the question at hand, I'd stick by my original statement. Here's an excerpt from one discussion which referenced several studies over a long period, it shows that newer measurements generally showed that smaller differences could be detected (likely due to better or different test conditions and measurements). However a 0.5 to 1 dB SPL difference still appears to be the JND (just noticeable difference) under most normal (even laboratory) conditions. This agrees with most information I've studied, read and experienced over many years. "Speaking now in terms of dB SPL, the minimum discernable changes by the human ear/brain mechanism I've seen in the research that I've reviewed ranged from about 0.5 dB to 3 dB, depending on a number of factors."
Study Authors / Year Published / Min. Detectable Fluctuation
Reisz / 1928 / ~1 dB
Dimmick & Olson / 1941 / JND = 1.5 dB to 3 dB
Atal, et. al. / 1962 / ~ 1 dB
Jestaedt, et. al. / 1977 / JND @ 80 dB = 0.5 dB JND @ 5 dB = 1.5 dB
Toole and Olive / 1988 / .25 dB for a 5kHz resonance, Q = 1www.audioholics.com/room-acoustics/human-hearing-amplitude-sensitivity-part-10.2 dB variations can still be audible according to the famous book "Psychoacoustics: Facts and Models" by Hugo Fastl and Eberhard Zwicker. |
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Post by garbulky on Dec 2, 2015 18:31:33 GMT -5
I was able to level match by ear to between 0.4 to 0.6 db as verified by a SPL meter.
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Post by novisnick on Dec 2, 2015 19:13:54 GMT -5
I was able to level match by ear to between 0.4 to 0.6 db as verified by a SPL meter. I recognize you,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, you sat in front of me on the short bus!    |
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