cab
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Post by cab on Nov 26, 2015 0:13:18 GMT -5
...what does it mean? I'm playing a disc that I'm pretty sure is not hdcd. There is no hdcd logo anywhere on the disc, nor on the packaging/case. Anyone know?
thanks, cab
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 26, 2015 0:36:03 GMT -5
...what does it mean? I'm playing a disc that I'm pretty sure is not hdcd. There is no hdcd logo anywhere on the disc, nor on the packaging/case. Anyone know? thanks, cab It means that they are unlabeled, but are HDCD encoded. I've seen in the past on other websites a partial list of such unlabeled HDCD's but don't remember where. Just curious, what is the disc? I have a few of these HDCD's as well and right off the top of my head I don't remember which ones.
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cab
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Post by cab on Nov 26, 2015 12:10:13 GMT -5
It's the new Spock's Beard, The First Twenty Years compilation disc. Sounds great too. Thanks for the reply!!!
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 26, 2015 13:12:37 GMT -5
Just remember to take advantage of the ERC-3's HDCD decoding ability, you have to use its balanced/analog outputs. As I don't believe it has the ability to send a bitstream out to a processor/receiver that is capable of doing the decoding.
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Post by garbulky on Nov 26, 2015 19:25:20 GMT -5
Just remember to take advantage of the ERC-3's HDCD decoding ability, you have to use its balanced/analog outputs. could you tell me why is this?
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 26, 2015 19:46:22 GMT -5
Just remember to take advantage of the ERC-3's HDCD decoding ability, you have to use its balanced/analog outputs. could you tell me why is this? You should be asking this of Emotiva, but if I remember correctly, this was posted by KeithL at some point. As I've understood it, the output from the ERC-1/2/3 analog/balanced is decoded when playing an HDCD but the ERC-1/2/3 does not send a bitstream to a processor/receiver that can decode an HDCD. Here is a link that KeithL posted on HDCD. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/39127/hdcd
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Post by garbulky on Nov 26, 2015 20:30:45 GMT -5
could you tell me why is this? You should be asking this of Emotiva, but if I remember correctly, this was posted by KeithL at some point. As I've understood it, the output from the ERC-1/2/3 analog/balanced is decoded when playing an HDCD but the ERC-1/2/3 does not send a bitstream to a processor/receiver that can decode an HDCD. Here is a link that KeithL posted on HDCD. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/39127/hdcdAh gotcha. I got fixated on the XLR outputs and thought it was related solely for XLR. But you were talking about that the digital output doesn't send HDCD but the analogs do pass it thorugh. Thanks for the reply.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Nov 27, 2015 12:08:56 GMT -5
A lot of Grateful Dead remasters are "unlabelled" HDCD - or it's only mentioned in the very fine print. It's also possible for only certain tracks on a given CD to be encoded. You should also note that sometimes a disc or track might be "null encoded" (the flag may be turned on, but there may not actually be any difference encoded in the content itself). The encoding used for HDCD is actually embedded in the audio itself (and so it IS there in the digital bitstream as long as you have a bit-perfect copy). That means that, if you take the digital output from the ERC-3, or even if you RIP an HDCD or convert it to FLAC, if you play it on a device that can decode HDCD, the HDCD encoding WILL still be detected and decoded. (However, if you send that bitstream to a device that DOESN'T decode HDCD, like most modern stereo DACs, including our DC-1, then it will play as an ordinary CD.) In addition to this, some software rippers (like dBPowerAmp) have the ability to "pre-decode" the HDCD bitstream and deliver it as an already-decoded 24 bit output file (which will then "play as HDCD", even on devices that don't support HDCD decoding). In order to do that, you have to have several things set correctly; I've never heard of a hardware CD player that does that. Just remember to take advantage of the ERC-3's HDCD decoding ability, you have to use its balanced/analog outputs. As I don't believe it has the ability to send a bitstream out to a processor/receiver that is capable of doing the decoding.
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Post by vcautokid on Nov 29, 2015 16:46:14 GMT -5
Just remember to take advantage of the ERC-3's HDCD decoding ability, you have to use its balanced/analog outputs. As I don't believe it has the ability to send a bitstream out to a processor/receiver that is capable of doing the decoding. Hmmm, wondering about this too. While the ERC-3 is fully differentially balanced, this occurs in the analog domain, and has nothing to do with respect to digital decoding at all. It is advantageous to balanced for the noise cancellation effects it employs due to its design. So if you can, use balance all the time, and not worry about the digital decoding. You can still run single ended RCA too, and the ERC-3 will do wonderfully. See everybody wins. Nice huh?
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Nov 30, 2015 14:17:30 GMT -5
The HDCD encoding is actually embedded in the normal CD digital bitstream. Therefore, if you play an HDCD CD disc on any player with a digital output, and it doesn't upsample or otherwise mess with the digital bitstream, and you then connect the digital output to something that can decode HDCD, it will be able to decode the HDCD information. So, if you connect any of the digital outputs on the ERC-3 to something that can decode HDCD, it should be able to decode the HDCD encoding just fine. (In fact, the HDCD encoding is still there in a WAV or FLAC RIP as well.) (The only thing that would prevent this from working would be if you had one of the few models of player out there that upsample their digital outputs.) Just remember to take advantage of the ERC-3's HDCD decoding ability, you have to use its balanced/analog outputs. As I don't believe it has the ability to send a bitstream out to a processor/receiver that is capable of doing the decoding. Hmmm, wondering about this too. While the ERC-3 is fully differentially balanced, this occurs in the analog domain, and has nothing to do with respect to digital decoding at all. It is advantageous to balanced for the noise cancellation effects it employs due to its design. So if you can, use balance all the time, and not worry about the digital decoding. You can still run single ended RCA too, and the ERC-3 will do wonderfully. See everybody wins. Nice huh?
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Nov 30, 2015 14:59:49 GMT -5
The HDCD encoding is actually embedded in the normal CD digital bitstream. Therefore, if you play an HDCD CD disc on any player with a digital output, and it doesn't upsample or otherwise mess with the digital bitstream, and you then connect the digital output to something that can decode HDCD, it will be able to decode the HDCD information. So, if you connect any of the digital outputs on the ERC-3 to something that can decode HDCD, it should be able to decode the HDCD encoding just fine. (In fact, the HDCD encoding is still there in a WAV or FLAC RIP as well.) (The only thing that would prevent this from working would be if you had one of the few models of player out there that upsample their digital outputs.) Hmmm, wondering about this too. While the ERC-3 is fully differentially balanced, this occurs in the analog domain, and has nothing to do with respect to digital decoding at all. It is advantageous to balanced for the noise cancellation effects it employs due to its design. So if you can, use balance all the time, and not worry about the digital decoding. You can still run single ended RCA too, and the ERC-3 will do wonderfully. See everybody wins. Nice huh? Does this apply to the ERC-1 and ERC-2 as well?
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m8o
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Post by m8o on Dec 23, 2015 21:49:46 GMT -5
I'm sorry for what seems like beating a dead horse. But it seems without additional hardware, ie the external digital filter, HDCD decoding is impossible. A good conversation on the matter... ez.analog.com/mobile/mobile-access.jspa#jive-content?content=%2Fapi%2Fcore%2Fv3%2Fcontents%2F108101I know that the PCM1732 DAC contains what is essentially a PMD100 in it to decode the HDCD. But I have not read the the ERC-1/2/3's AD1955 DAC has the same. The above link states unequivocally that it does not... In contrast the specsheet specifically reads "The AD1955 also has an interface for SACD playback and an external digital filter interface for use with an external digital interpolation filter or HDCD decoder. " and " In the External Digital Filter Mode, the AD1955 will accept up to 24-bit serial, twos complement, MSB-first data from an external digital filter, an HDCD decoder, or a general-purpose DSP." So how is the ERC-1/2/3 actually DECODING (not just detecting) the HDCD? I want to buy an erc-2 or 3 but HDCD decoding is a requirement for me. I've read many threads researching them, in regrads to hdcd. I've never stumbled on the right one and read that they use an external filter; definitely not a pmd100 or 200 or reverse engineered dsp, or whatnot. Actually, this review specifically names the filter as the same as the DAC; which I have established does not decode HDCD based on the specsheet. hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/audio-player/cd-players/emotiva-erc-2-cd-player/ So, how is it actually decoding it? Does it actually do anything more than light up the HD light? Someone in the know, please please tell me how.
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m8o
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Post by m8o on Jan 8, 2016 18:50:29 GMT -5
Ping .... can we please have a dialog about this? I do not say this to be argumentative. I really want to buy an ERC-2/3. But it must DECODE (not just detect) the HDCD encoded stream for me. Please tell me how it does that.
I believe the above post to be evidence that no revision of the ERC, 1 thru 3, ever actually decoded an HDCD to a 20-bit stream. Please tell me how it does that without a PMC filter chip, or DSP that has the codec, and the DAC chip manufacturer stated their DAC does not do it.
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Post by teaman on Jan 8, 2016 19:57:41 GMT -5
I would like more details as well. I have several newer releases on CD that produce the HD header to come up on my ERC-3's. I will say that these discs sound fantastic, more so than most of my other discs, not coming up as HD. I run all of my ERC-2's and ERC-3's to an XDA-2 via AES/EBU cables. Would it benefit me to hook them up via balanced XLR's instead, say on my Sherbourn PT7020-C4?
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jan 8, 2016 23:26:25 GMT -5
Ping .... can we please have a dialog about this? I do not say this to be argumentative. I really want to buy an ERC-2/3. But it must DECODE (not just detect) the HDCD encoded stream for me. Please tell me how it does that. I believe the above post to be evidence that no revision of the ERC, 1 thru 3, ever actually decoded an HDCD to a 20-bit stream. Please tell me how it does that without a PMC filter chip, or DSP that has the codec, and the DAC chip manufacturer stated their DAC does not do it. I suggest you call Emotiva and talk with Keith about your questions. I know most of the Emotiva crew is in Las Vegas this week due to CES 2016 so you may want to give them time to return to Franklin and back in the flow of things at work.
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