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Post by merlin74 on Dec 6, 2015 13:41:29 GMT -5
I'm having a new electrical line run for my new XPR-2 and everybody says if you're going to run a new line you might as well run a 220 line since its more efficient than 120/20Amp. This brings me to my question, where do I find a 220 surge protector? I've looked everywhere and can't seem to find any. Does anybody have any suggestions?
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Post by novisnick on Dec 6, 2015 14:02:26 GMT -5
I'm having a new electrical line run for my new XPR-2 and everybody says if you're going to run a new line you might as well run a 220 line since its more efficient than 120/20Amp. This brings me to my question, where do I find a 220 surge protector? I've looked everywhere and can't seem to find any. Does anybody have any suggestions? My guess is, that if you can't find one then there's really no advantage of having it. The line level 220 must inherently be protected from the house system. ie; your not stopping that surge! dont worry about it! Cranck it up and have fun!!  |
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Post by dally on Dec 6, 2015 19:42:13 GMT -5
I would suggest running a 120volt line. There is absolutely no advantage to running the xpr-2 at 240 volts. Then, there's the drawbacks, like not being able to find a surge protector, not being able to plug anything else into that outlet if you decide to rearrange things. Sure 240 draws half the current as 120 but it's still the same number of watts(power) VC=P. There's no free lunch. Your electric bill will still be the same. The advantage of higher voltage is for high constant current draw applications like a large electric motor. In this case you can run smaller gauge wire which is the real advantage. Your amplifier might draw some current, but it's really only in pulses. I would stay at 120 volts if it were me.
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Post by lionear on Dec 6, 2015 20:13:25 GMT -5
You can look on Amazon and eBay, or contact the manufacturers. Europe runs on 220V, and so do a lot of other countries in the world. In fact, I think most countries run on 220V.
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Post by creimes on Dec 6, 2015 22:34:40 GMT -5
I'm having a new electrical line run for my new XPR-2 and everybody says if you're going to run a new line you might as well run a 220 line since its more efficient than 120/20Amp. This brings me to my question, where do I find a 220 surge protector? I've looked everywhere and can't seem to find any. Does anybody have any suggestions? I will save you a world of trouble, plug the amp straight into the wall as even Emotiva themselves don't suggest running their amps off of surge protectors, your welcome  They do sell a CMX-2 which does not limit current but instead cleans up dirty power Chad |
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Post by leonski on Mar 1, 2016 3:10:20 GMT -5
One trouble (potential) with sourcing a surge protector from Europe is that it will have Euro-Style plugs and outlets.
My amp(s) are plugged into a dedicated 20 amp circuit using a PSAudio Soloist outlet. Cleans the power, provides surge protection and doesnt' strangle the amps dynamics.
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Post by audiosyndrome on Mar 1, 2016 10:16:40 GMT -5
I would suggest running a 120volt line. There is absolutely no advantage to running the xpr-2 at 240 volts. Then, there's the drawbacks, like not being able to find a surge protector, not being able to plug anything else into that outlet if you decide to rearrange things. Sure 240 draws half the current as 120 but it's still the same number of watts(power) VC=P. There's no free lunch. Your electric bill will still be the same. The advantage of higher voltage is for high constant current draw applications like a large electric motor. In this case you can run smaller gauge wire which is the real advantage. Your amplifier might draw some current, but it's really only in pulses. I would stay at 120 volts if it were me. If you have a long run to the outlet box (55-feet in my case) 220 will give you less of an IR drop, maybe several volts for a very high current demand. Russ |
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Post by leonski on Mar 1, 2016 19:59:47 GMT -5
55 feet of 10 ga. has a resistance of 0.055 ohms and can be considered 'negligible' by all but those with the worst OCD.
This results in a .55v drop over the run @5amps. At 10 amps, you are STILL under 1% drop which is also fine.
I DOUBT like crazy you'll ever draw that much current on a continuous basis.
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Post by bluemeanies on Mar 2, 2016 6:50:16 GMT -5
I'm having a new electrical line run for my new XPR-2 and everybody says if you're going to run a new line you might as well run a 220 line since its more efficient than 120/20Amp. This brings me to my question, where do I find a 220 surge protector? I've looked everywhere and can't seem to find any. Does anybody have any suggestions? merlin74...As mentioned there is no advantage in running a 220v line. Who is everybody? Nothing is going to sound better. The only thing you are doing is throwing money out the window. I have two friends that have a 220line and both of them have several heavy duty machines in their work space. The XPR's are not generators. They are amplifiers. Save yourself the coin. |
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Post by geebo on Mar 2, 2016 8:02:19 GMT -5
Just go with dedicated 120v 20 amp lines. Maybe even run two of them while they're at it.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Mar 2, 2016 9:31:04 GMT -5
220 is actually a bit more efficient than 110 since you are dealing with less current which is where the heat comes from.
As far as surge protection, look at gear made for pro audio equipment since many run at 220V.
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Post by audiosyndrome on Mar 2, 2016 10:33:42 GMT -5
55 feet of 10 ga. has a resistance of 0.055 ohms and can be considered 'negligible' by all but those with the worst OCD. This results in a .55v drop over the run @5amps. At 10 amps, you are STILL under 1% drop which is also fine. I DOUBT like crazy you'll ever draw that much current on a continuous basis. That's 110 feet round trip. And my two 115v dedicated lines are 12-gauge. Not concerned about continuous but transient. Rusd |
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Post by leonski on Mar 2, 2016 12:30:41 GMT -5
Audio: Not to belabor your IR drop thought, but here is a calculator which uses 2 conductors AND says to use only one-way distance from load to source. www.calculator.net/voltage-drop-calculator.htmlEven 10 amp peaks are a lot. And than only for a couple cycles while the PS 'recharges'. And yes, even with 2 of the amps on 1 circuit, for the fronts. What do you listen to and how loud? I see 1L amps listed. I don't see the issue and if there WERE an issue? Perhaps going from 12ga to 10ga would help. Stereophile MEASURED 88db sensitivity for your NHT 2.9 speakers. This is a fairly sensitive speaker. My Panels are way less than 1/2 as sensitive at 84db and my pair of stereo amps into a single circuit doesnt' really IR drop it at all. I'll guess 40 feet from the box. My OLD and gone Carver Cube would, however, dim the house lights when plugged into the common circuit. At Nose Bleed levels. And that was only a 200x2@8 ohm amp. Don't forget that even 15 watts continuous results in maybe 150 watt peaks (10db crest) and not ALL amps will get that bump at the same time. And 15 watts is LOUD. |
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Post by audiosyndrome on Mar 2, 2016 16:05:09 GMT -5
But you are belaboring the issue. It does not cost anymore to run a 220 vs.120 line. So if that is the case, go with it. It can't hurt, it may help. And if you're into DIY, a 220 line is the first leg up for a balanced power supply.
Russ
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Post by audiosyndrome on Mar 2, 2016 16:13:13 GMT -5
And the calculator algorithm doubles the distance.
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Post by leonski on Mar 3, 2016 2:00:11 GMT -5
The problem is finding a USA plug protocol Surge Protector or Power Conditioner which is made for 220 VAC.
Let the board know if / when you find such a device, the price and vender. Maybe a simple ISOLATION TRANSFORMER? A 220vac / 3000va should 'bout do it. Happy Hernia.
And if the Calculator Doubles the distance, so much the better for the calc'd result. Divide by 2 which makes it even look nuttier to worry about IR drop.
And don't forget, I was taken to task for insisting that the 2 top XPR amps which are Spec'd for 20 amp service really did NEED the 20 amp service for maximum duty applications.
'Common Knowlede' which is STILL wrong, insisted that 'it was OK for MOST applications most of the time'. My answer, which was 'than WHY buy such an amp?' Fell on deaf ears.
If you are THAT worried about IR drop, I'd run 10ga wire on 20 amp circuits. And get one of the Furman 20 amp conditioners.
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Post by leonski on Mar 3, 2016 2:07:13 GMT -5
Please, Audio, do NOT forget YOUR original question which was about a 220 Surge Protector.
I DO have an answer, however. Upon reflection? Get a WHOLE HOUSE SURGE PROTECTOR.
Talk it over with an electrician.
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Post by afterburner on Mar 3, 2016 8:26:01 GMT -5
Please, Audio, do NOT forget YOUR original question which was about a 220 Surge Protector. I DO have an answer, however. Upon reflection? Get a WHOLE HOUSE SURGE PROTECTOR. Talk it over with an electrician. ^^^ This. We are doing it, looks to be the smartest choice all around... www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/SectionDisplay.jsp?section=61379 |
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Post by leonski on Mar 3, 2016 12:41:59 GMT -5
Good. And I see they list Point of Use, Line Side and Load Side as 3 places to needing such protection.
don't forget that for 220, it APPEARS you have 2 line wires, a Ground and a Neutral for a total of 4. If you use the typical and CHEAP MOV device (Metal Oxide Varister) You'll need a BUNCH of 'em. L1-L2 / L1-N / L2-N / L1-G / L2-G and N-G.
I might have missed one! And, MULTIPLES of each, to get to the desired level of energy protection. Mo=Betta.
I've seen, in years past, a Spark Gap type device, too. While a MOV can only take so much and than be replaced, the spark gap type has no such limits.
If I lived in a Lightning Prone area, like I did when I lived in the Deep South, I'd get a whole-house unit in a HEARTBEAT. But I'd ALSO continue with high-end point of use for most other devices.
My washing machine for clothes? Just got a NEW one. HIGHLY ELECTRONIC. And therefore Vulnerable to ZAPS. I think it's time for a garage surge protector.
I rather doubt you are buying yourself anything on the IR drop front, but that's another arguement.
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Post by westom on Mar 4, 2016 11:24:45 GMT -5
This. We are doing it, looks to be the smartest choice all around... A 'whole house' solution is strongly recommended. But not for reasons in that sales brochure. No protector does protection - not one. For example, best protection on a TV cable is a hardwire connected directly and low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to earth ground. No protector required. Because protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly 'absorbed'. AC electric cannot connect directly to earth. So a 'whole house' protector does what that hardwire does better. Connect hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly to earth. That Leviton protector also must connect low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to single point earth ground. Earth provides the protection. A protector is only a connecting device to what does protection. Every protection layer is defined only by what 'absorbs' energy. That is not a protector. That is always what an effective protector connects to. Leviton 'whole house' protectors do 99.5% of the protection. Those other Leviton protectors (that have no earth ground) are recommended for maybe an additional 0.2% protection. Protectors without a hardwire connection to earth are for anomalies already made irrelevant by protection inside a garage door opener, washing machine, recharging phones, TVs, GFCIs, clocks, and smoke detectors. A high quality protector (for all types of transients) is always connected low impedance to earth. Lesser quality protectors (that only protect from one type of transient) are at wall receptacles. Effective Leviton protector is a 'secondary' protection layer. A 'primary' protection layer is located on a utility pole. Also inspect that. Then superior protection exists on all 120 and 240 volt wires. Then superior protection inside every appliance is not overwhelmed. That sales brochure did not discuss the one 'protection' component that requires most of your attention. What 'absorbs' hundreds of thousands of joules - what defines the layer of protection for all 240 and 120 volt appliances - single point earth ground. BTW, spark gaps were replaced by MOVs because a properly sized MOV protector does not fail after many surges. Near zero protectors must be replaced often. Those will absorb how many joules? Hundreds? A thousand? Those are low quality and highly profitable protectors (not high-end protectors). Protection is about hundreds of thousands of joules. A 50,000 amp 'whole house' protector uses MOVs that must not fail after any transient. - including a direct lightning strike. Effective protectors are that robust. MOVs (if properly sized) are now used where spark gaps were once used. |
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