Stereo subwoofers

[jdubs]

I will soon have 2 subs, and my preamp is capable of running mono or stereo subs. So, I was doing some research on what is best, and I ran across this. It makes a ton of sense and tends to support my opinions on 2 channel vs. surround etc. Any thoughts?

kenrockwell.com/audio/stereo-subwoofers.htm

[pedrocols]

I currently use stereo subs. I don't know why some people debate the benefits of it when a stereo track is mixed with left and right channels. It only make sense to also separate the low frequecies respectively as well. In addition, if you chose not to use a subwoofer for to channel listening guess where the left channel and right channel low frequecies are going to go. Yup, you guessed it. The left channel is going to go to the left and the right to the right....

[garbulky]

I've listened to stereo subs and compared them with single subs. THe single sub was the mighty PSA XV15. And it could really belt it out. But stereo subs just sounded signficantly better. Much smoother.

[jdubs]

I should specify that this is for an exclusive 2 ch system and I'm going for sound quality over output. However, the drivers I got will be capable of significant output! Keep an eye out for my DIY build coming soon.

[Axis]

I live in an apartment and on top of that I have never been one to enjoy extreme bass. I enjoy small sealed subs and bought one Emotiva Ultra 10 and wish I would have bought two. What I want to try with Dirac when I get it, is four subs at each corner of the listening area.

[Axis]

I would think that using left and right subwoofers in a two channel system that placing the subs aligned and next to the main speakers would sound good if the room agreed.

[jmasterj]

I have stereo subs also, to tell you the truth I thought two were overkill until I got two and tried them. The sound is much more balanced and the bass seems layered or like it has more depth. It really makes a difference.

[jdubs]

Dec 14, 2015 14:11:09 GMT -5 Axis said:

I would think that using left and right subwoofers in a two channel system that placing the subs aligned and next to the main speakers would sound good if the room agreed.

There is no WAF in this room, so I can place them wherever the room tells me to. It's going to be a lot of set-up, but it'll be worth it.

[Axis]

I have always put the sub in the prime listening location and walked or crawled around the room until it sounded right. I have never used a mic and analyzer and Dirac will actually be my first room correction. Everything I have read over the years and current reviews on Dirac, I believe I am in store for pleasant sounds. I like the idea that I can just let Dirac do all the work for me because I am not one too worry that the sound is not perfect. I would not know perfect if I heard it.

[mountain]

My front 3 speakers have built in subs and amplifiers. I have enjoyed stereo bass for years with a small footprint.  I have not tired of these speakers, especially with the oppo and outlaw amp upgrades.  My older system had one Mitsubishi powered sub (a very nice one at that point in time) paired with def tech bp20's and double original Advent loudspeakers before that (stacked & wired parallel). I'm a believer in multiple subs.  Enjoy.

[Gary Cook]

The concept of "stereo sound" is to maintain and enhance directionality, sound staging. Since frequencies below around 80 Hz are non directional (ie; their wavelength is over 3.5 metres long) the concept of sound staging doesn't apply to sub woofers like it does to woofers, mid range, tweeters etc. in some systems what is loosely called a sub woofer is actually handling the frequencies of a woofer ie; producing frequencies above 80 Hz. In this case they can benefit from stereo sound staging.

There are benefits in having 2 subs but if the case of a true sub woofer then stereo sound staging isn't one of them.


Cheers
Gary

[jdubs]

Dec 14, 2015 15:00:22 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

The concept of "stereo sound" is to maintain and enhance directionality, sound staging. Since frequencies below around 80 Hz are non directional (ie; their wavelength is over 3.5 metres long) the concept of sound staging doesn't apply to sub woofers like it does to woofers, mid range, tweeters etc. in some systems what is loosely called a sub woofer is actually handling the frequencies of a woofer ie; producing frequencies above 80 Hz. In this case they can benefit from stereo sound staging.

There are benefits in having 2 subs but if the case of a true sub woofer then stereo sound staging isn't one of them.


Cheers
Gary

Gary, that is an oft quoted but much maligned theory. I'd be interested for you to read the article I posted in the OP and see what your opinion is on it.

[Gary Cook]

Dec 14, 2015 16:11:44 GMT -5 jdubs said:

Dec 14, 2015 15:00:22 GMT -5 Gary Cook said:

The concept of "stereo sound" is to maintain and enhance directionality, sound staging. Since frequencies below around 80 Hz are non directional (ie; their wavelength is over 3.5 metres long) the concept of sound staging doesn't apply to sub woofers like it does to woofers, mid range, tweeters etc. in some systems what is loosely called a sub woofer is actually handling the frequencies of a woofer ie; producing frequencies above 80 Hz. In this case they can benefit from stereo sound staging.
There are benefits in having 2 subs but if the case of a true sub woofer then stereo sound staging isn't one of them.

Gary, that is an oft quoted but much maligned theory. I'd be interested for you to read the article I posted in the OP and see what your opinion is on it.

In my case it's proven to be accurate many times over and I have read that article previously, a couple of years ago if I recall correctly. I still have the same problems with it now as I did then. Firstly, in a symphony orchestra the contra bassoon, double bass and harp (very rarely heard at low frequencies), plus when called for a pipe organ, have significant frequencies below 60 hz. Secondly if we look at the seating arrangement of a symphony orchestra we find that the lower frequency instruments such as the bassoons, contra bassoons, tubas etc are located centre, rear. Similarly pipe organs tend to be rear and high. This seating arrangement is not by accident, the frequency of the music produced by those instruments is considered, as are the acoustics in the house. Secondly, regarding the question of phasing, room acoustics is arguably more relevant than summed mono supplied to the subwoofer. In the article Ken states this "Bass wavefronts propagate all over a hall, and even with the basses on the right, you'll hear bass on the left and all around as it bounces around." Just substitute "room" for "hall". Thirdly, in the recoding of a symphony orchestra commonly some instruments are individually miked while others share common mikes. Obviously the mikes pick up the room ambience, which should involve propagated sounds both in phase and out of phase. Summed up, there is as much, if not more, likelihood in the average listening room that a pair of stereo sub woofers will have phasing confrontations as much as a summed mono sub woofer.


As usual, everyone hears different things, has different experiences and has different preferences in their music. Personally I find huge advantages in stereo woofers, but not so much in stereo sub woofers.


Cheers
Gary

[jdubs]

Gary, thank you for the thoughtful response.

[vneal]

I use two subs

[Kent]

I don't use a sub for 2 channel listening but if I did I would definitely use 2 in stereo. IMHO I believe this is the best way to go.

[jutta]

My twins.....XS30's

[Deleted]

Well ..... as every audio/HT/phile knows, for stereo one needs two subwoofers, 5 subs for 5 channel surround and 7 subs for 7 channel surround ..... etc.

[klinemj]

What about for a 16 channel system? @chuckienut, how many sub's do I need for that...I am not good at math.

Mark

[yves]

There has been another discussion about this subject in the past, but hardly anyone wanted to listen to my advice back then:

emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/674082/thread