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Post by rockman85 on Feb 18, 2016 18:50:34 GMT -5
Hello everyone, new to the forum here. So admittedly I am new to the audiophile world. Secondly, I would like to mention I purchased Emotiva's Stealth DC-1 to play music from my PC to my 2 home theater systems and I have been very impressed with the way it sounds versus the lousy sound components that come with the motherboard. I do understand and appreciate what high level components can add to the experience. That being said, I was wondering if anyone can explain the value of the XMC-1 over other less expensive options. I know it has 4k, room correction, and internal DAC for music. But I guess I cant figure out what the value added is for say the XMC-1 with and Emotiva amp for $3k USD versus an all in one product like the Denon AVR-X4200 usa.denon.com/us/product/hometheater/avreceiversht/avrx4200wI'm not trying to be adversarial I'm really trying to understand what Emotiva does better in this category to justify the higher price. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks
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Post by Axis on Feb 18, 2016 19:05:20 GMT -5
This is the Test Bench results for the Denon AVR-X5200W from Sound and Vision. www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-x5200w-av-receiver#DTRz6B4AZO4PRTz2.97Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 166.7 watts 1% distortion at 182.0 watts Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 112.5 watts 1% distortion at 125.3 watts Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 78.9 watts 1% distortion at 94.9 watts The Denon AVR-X4200W does have Preamp outs so you can add a External Amplifier if you need more output all channels driven.
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Post by rockman85 on Feb 18, 2016 19:27:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply but thats not really what I am asking. From the processor level, what advantages does XMC-1 have, I think I understand the amp section pretty well.
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Post by Axis on Feb 18, 2016 19:31:18 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply but thats not really what I am asking. From the processor level, what advantages does XMC-1 have, I think I understand the amp section pretty well. Sound Quality. Also welcome to the Forum. novisnick will be around shortly to pour you some cool aid.
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Post by creimes on Feb 18, 2016 21:19:19 GMT -5
For me Dirac was a excellent addition to the already excellent sound quality of the XMC-1 in general, I'm sure the Denon isn't terrible but for me separates are what I prefer.
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Post by millst on Feb 18, 2016 21:27:34 GMT -5
Integrated parametric EQ and Dirac Live for room correction are probably the biggest improvement over something from the usual suspects. The XMC-1 also measures better. I think the digital/analog outputs (stereo mixdown) are fairly unique, too. If you don't care about that and want features galore, then the others will work better for less.
-tm
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klinemj
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Honorary Emofest Scribe
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Post by klinemj on Feb 18, 2016 21:41:29 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply but thats not really what I am asking. From the processor level, what advantages does XMC-1 have, I think I understand the amp section pretty well. So, I take it that your question is really rooted in "why buy a pre/pro without built-in Amps vs. an AVR with built in amps". And, why the XMC over other options like the Denon. If that is the case, my answer is: 1) when companies build an AVR, there are more compromises on every component to bring the unit in at target cost. Those compromises limit performance...especially around. The XMC is SO GOOD that it's specs and sound rival some amazing preamps that are dedicated to just 2-channel. So, if you are a two channel AND movie guy, the XMC is a dream. 2) The XMC features some stellar 2-channel and multichannel DAC's...rendering outboard units redundant and unnecessary. It's bass mgmt is incredible even for two channel + sub. And, I have an Oppo 105, and the XMC is so good, I prefer it's DAC's sound over the Oppo (and regret buying the Oppo) 3) DIRAC is just amazing. I am still not believing it sounds so good. I got rid of an amazing preamp and sent my DC-1 DAC to a second system. Mark
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Post by amt on Feb 18, 2016 22:56:35 GMT -5
Advantages:
-you can say "I have a preamp!" -a very flexible and powerful room EQ system -most likely higher quality components than an AVR -5 year warrantee -built in the USA if that matters to you
Disadvantages: -does not have HMDI 2.0a yet, will have it very soon (only one input), and later (multiple inputs), will be an additional cost -can not do more than 7 channels (many AVR's do 9, 11, or 13 for Dolby Atmos) -the Emotiva signature "pops,clicks" under certain situations (search the board for more info)
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bootman
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Typing useless posts on internet forums....
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Post by bootman on Feb 18, 2016 23:37:58 GMT -5
You kind of answered your own question. It is really the same reason you like your DC-1 over your motherboard. only the price has scaled up but not the reasoning behind it.
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Post by mickseymour on Feb 19, 2016 1:48:45 GMT -5
Disadvantages: -does not have HMDI 2.0a yet, will have it very soon (only one input), and later (multiple inputs), will be an additional cost My understanding is that the first upgrade board will be HDMI 2.0, not HDMI 2.0a.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Feb 19, 2016 7:04:09 GMT -5
I switched from the XMC-1 from the highly regarded Denon AVR-4311ci supplemented by an Emotiva XPA-5 amp. I had every intention of returning the XMC-1.
It's still sitting in my home theater and continues to delight the family.
There was no comparison.
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Post by mshump on Feb 19, 2016 8:19:55 GMT -5
The Denon AVR you linked to is very nice AVR and it has a few bells and whistles the xmc-1 doesn't have, as in Atmos, bluetooth etc. and for most people it would be very nice unit for most home theater set ups.
The XMC-1 and amp combo gives much better sound quality. When you are watching a movie or listening to music the XMC-1 with an amp will surpass it easily on passages requiring some extra power (headroom). The sound quality will be much cleaner/better. The DACs inside the XMC-1 are much better sound wise. Dirac room correction software is outstanding.
I started with a top of the line Onkyo AVR, then I added an XPA-3 for the front and Center channels and was floored at the difference. The Amp just added much more Sound quality, the sound from music and movies was just much much better.
I then bought a Sherborn (an old Emotiva company) and the clarity and sound just stepped up another step. I got the XMC-1 when it came out and and the Sound quality was better than I ever heard for both music and movies. Dirac really changed the sound for the better on movies and music, I really noticed a difference in clarity of the center channel and my surrounds were much cleaner ( I run 5.1 I have no need or desire for more channels)
Spending this kind of money for a system isn't for everyone and that's a decision you need to make in your own mind. 1.2K vs 3k is quite the difference in the wallet.
Another thing to look at is Emotiva's 30 day return policy and being able to call them up and discuss questions. issues etc. (excellent customer service)
I had an issue with my set-up (I was about 99% percent sure it wasn't an Emotiva problem) and talked to Kieth and he helped me troubleshoot issue for approx 1hr. I didn't have to go to FAQ page or look through the internet for answers. I did have a firmware issue with my Sherborn and Emotiva's 5 year warranty stood behind their product 100% no questions asked.
Denon and Emotiva both make great products. The decision really depends on what do you want out of your system.
Welcome to the lounge and keep us posted of your decision.
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Post by vcautokid on Feb 19, 2016 8:58:45 GMT -5
It is about the flexibility and isolation. Again what you like about the DC-1. The fully differential balanced on the front 2 channels is great too. Dirac room correction especially the full version. I was watching Spectre last night and it was amazing the detail the XMC-1 played. I have had AVR's too, and they just aren't quite as detailed and nuanced as the XMC-1 unless you spend lots of money on that AVR than maybe. But the XMC-1 is truly special In its performance.
The XMC-1 is an audiophile level Preamplifier where an AVR, not quite. I don't know if I could go back to an AVR after hearing the XMC-1.
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Post by etc6849 on Feb 19, 2016 14:36:02 GMT -5
Everything klinemj said. The sound quality was an improvement over the Marantz AV8801 I sold and lost a lot of money on. Same one seat calibration too, and I even had the Audyssey Pro kit. The Emotiva will for sure provide at least one HDMI upgrade board for the XMC-1, forget about that with the Denon/Marantz. D&M build based on cost and it shows in their measurements (and is audible) too. D&M pulls that authorized dealer or no warranty stuff on you if you buy cheaper online or buy used. Plainly put, the D&M stuff is a ripoff if you buy at an authorized dealer, so I will never buy one of their products again when I can buy American for less and get better quality. Even if you don't want to buy a new XMC-1, there are used one's for $1400-$1700 on the web and the warranty fully transfers. Used prices are extremely affordable for the audio quality you get. No joke, it is that good. Thanks for the reply but thats not really what I am asking. From the processor level, what advantages does XMC-1 have, I think I understand the amp section pretty well. So, I take it that your question is really rooted in "why buy a pre/pro without built-in Amps vs. an AVR with built in amps". And, why the XMC over other options like the Denon. If that is the case, my answer is: 1) when companies build an AVR, there are more compromises on every component to bring the unit in at target cost. Those compromises limit performance...especially around. The XMC is SO GOOD that it's specs and sound rival some amazing preamps that are dedicated to just 2-channel. So, if you are a two channel AND movie guy, the XMC is a dream. 2) The XMC features some stellar 2-channel and multichannel DAC's...rendering outboard units redundant and unnecessary. It's bass mgmt is incredible even for two channel + sub. And, I have an Oppo 105, and the XMC is so good, I prefer it's DAC's sound over the Oppo (and regret buying the Oppo) 3) DIRAC is just amazing. I am still not believing it sounds so good. I got rid of an amazing preamp and sent my DC-1 DAC to a second system. Mark
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Post by rockman85 on Feb 19, 2016 18:23:43 GMT -5
Thanks everyone, that was exactly the answer I was looking for. I really appreciate everyone's feedback. Time to start an XMC fund.
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Post by garbulky on Feb 19, 2016 23:59:42 GMT -5
Currently the XMC-1 does not have HDMI 2 which is what you need to watch any 4k Blu rays or anything that requires HDCP 2.2 (and HDMI 2). In the very near future, pretty much anything 4k except for Youtube is going to require HDCP 2.2 (and HDMI 2) . But there is an upgrade coming out for the XMC-1 which is an HDMI 2 board that has a single HDMI 2 input. It is around $300 ish. So it will get you HDMI functionality but if you have more than one HDMI 2 device you want to connect it to it will not be enough.
The XMC-1's selling point is its sound quality. I heard it and I thought the sound was nice.
Would I spend $2000 on it? Hm...I don't know. That's the $2000 question! I am a two channel guy. And I'd rather put my money on two channel stuff for that price - for sound quality. So I don't know if I would call it a giant destroyer. However it is a very solid piece of equipment. When you get to tak a look at it in person. It is obvous it is a gorgeous solid piece of equipment A lot of thought has gone in to it.
I have concerns about its upgradability.
Already we've heard that the platform won't support ATMOS as it doesn't have enough channels. But the CEO did mention he is "softening" to the idea.
So if you buy it...buy it for what it is now. It won't topple the best two channel out there. But it also won't embarrass itself by any means. I haven't heard many recieveers. But the few receievers I have heard...the XMC-1 out paced it in terms of quality. I just don't know if that quality outpacing is worth the asking price for me. Maybe relative to its multi channel competition it is. It has a strong solid preamp section. And it is capable of driving Emotiva's big monoblock amps with ease.
If I ever did dip my toe in the multichannel market after completing my 2 channel dreams, I would be looking at Emotiva's flagship processor. Not Marantz, Denon etc.
But only if and when it supports the latest formats that are already available like ATMOS. I think object based surround with ceiling channels is an amazing concept allowing for the height dimension in audio. And I hope that they start incorporating serious music recordings...ones that are not made from mono captures in a sound booth but real performances in a real venue like an orchestra or acoustic recordings.
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Post by jra on Feb 20, 2016 0:00:45 GMT -5
Its the sound quality, all about the sound quality. I moved to XMC1 from a Pioneer AVR, one of their higher-end ones. It wasn't a bad product, but the XMC is head and shoulders above the AVR in sound quality. The clarity of the sound - you have to hear it to understand. I paired it with a XPA-5 and couldnt be happier !
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Post by rbk123 on Feb 20, 2016 17:44:32 GMT -5
The electronics of the Emo gear will sound substantially better than the Denon. Emo's amps are better than Denon's internal amps, and so is the XMC's pre amp and processing over the Denon's. However if your speakers aren't of high enough quality, the gap won't be as large and may not be worth it for the extra expense and cabling hassles.
The Denon may handle additional movie formats that the XMC doesn't, depending on which Denon you get.
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abd1
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Post by abd1 on Feb 23, 2017 18:49:52 GMT -5
I think you can get very very good sound from a high quality receiver such as this Denon. However, like others have mentioned, receivers stuff a lot of features into 1 box. They can be very good, but not always great. Think of it this way... You can drive any car fast, but you can drive a Porsche fast much better. It's designed and built for speed, handling, and responsiveness. It's a better experience for the driver. Much is the same here. You can still have a very nice sound with a good receiver, and maybe critical listening or detail and soundstage isn't too big a deal to you, which is fine, but you still want something nice, dynamic and clean with lots of features. Then don't get the Porsche, get the Audi. It will still be nice, probably more practical, but it just won't put the same smile on your face when pushed. Enough of this crappy analogy....
Anyway, I've had many receivers from Denon, some Yamaha's (which I now prefer for sound quality over Denon), and now a Pioneer. I just purchased an XMC-1 and have some Emo amps to go with it. I'm really looking forward to it. I think most high end receivers sound pretty close and pretty good. I would say if you go with a receiver make sure it has pre-outs so you can add external amps. I think that can make a nice improvement to most receivers.
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Post by millst on Feb 24, 2017 11:08:57 GMT -5
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