Javs
Minor Hero
Posts: 15 
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Post by Javs on Mar 5, 2016 3:28:08 GMT -5
Hello, I live in Australia and I have had an XPA-7 for about a month. The first unit blew up in spectacular smoke and sparks. It was clearly faulty. LUCKILY I bought my unit here in Australia with local support. If that happened on a unit I imported from the US I would have been out of pocked 40% of the cost of the unit new in shipping back and forth on a faulty unit which was essentially DOA. The first unit I had experience much higher than usual heat during use and eventually it blew. The 2nd unit seems to be ok which makes me happy because I think its a phenomenal unit. I have been using RCA on both units as my attempts to use any XLR interconnects with either of my two XPA-7 units have resulted in the amp continuously going into a totally random channel protection mode a few moments after power up. It seems each time I tried to do it and swapped around the cables, or speaker wires to try and find out what was definitively wrong I was getting inconsistent protection faults across the channels which was random and unpredictable and thus un-solvable. This was/is happening on both my units. So after some discussion on the AVS forum the conclusion was reached that the XPA-7 just does not play nicely at all with Marantz pre amps and I would need to use RCA going forward. My question with RCA is this, I have 100db/watt sensitive speakers for my mains and will soon be upgrading my rears to speakers of the same sensitivity. My Marantz is attempting to set the level trims to -12db on the Audyssey sweeps, so I have overridden this and used an SPL meter to set my gains on the Marantz to somewhere around -3db for the mains. Now I know the Marantz has an output voltage of 1.2V and the XPA-7 has an input voltage of 1.4V. What I would like to know is if the 1.2V is referring to max volume or if it can possibly be higher than that and as a result induce clipping on my XPA-7. If it is referring to max volume then does that refer to 0dB on the volume dial? What about when I am running my amp trims for the mains at -3db and the high sensitivity means i can hit reference level sound at -12db on the Marantz? Is that still going to be 1.2v? I have since in some listening tests reduced the 'Source Input Volume' on the Marantz to -12db which enables me to set the Marantz master volume closer to 0dB on the dial to reach reference levels. Before it was probably -12.5db on the volume dial. Firstly there is less hiss when the input volume is reduced in the amp by 12db than there is running them and my speakers with no reduction. But I also feel like the sound when reduced on the input is a bit better, wider and more dynamic than it was when the Emotiva was recieving a higher input volume through the RCA connections. Would attenuators be beneficial for me? I heard they can reduce the noise floor of the Marantz. Do you think the sound improvement I am hearing is tangible? Does anybody run this combo, and have very sensitive speakers? Did you end up using attenuators? I am interested to know if by using attenuators and thus feeding the XPA-7 a less 'hot' signal the amp actually will improve the sound because it has more of a spectrum of power to work with? Kind of similar to the old question of weather its better to let a sub amp do most of the gain or feed the sub a hot signal and have the actual amp on minimal volume... I am interested to know if there is a difference, as both would achieve the same SPL level at a given input and level but would the sound be better on one over the other? I believe this is the situation I have run into with my main speakers and I would love some insight from your guys. For those interested the speakers I am using were built by me and you can see them here.Sorry for the long post! Cheers! |
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Post by smarties on Mar 5, 2016 5:00:02 GMT -5
"I have since in some listening tests reduced the 'Source Input Volume' on the Marantz to -12db "
You don't want to do that, as it means the levels going into processing section will be very low. Just like when recording a tape deck, you want the input level to just to be clipping on peaks, then knock it down a little.
The XPA-7 voltage gain is 29dB.
FYI I have another amp with 34dB, it's totally silent with amp on with source off, but I get hiss when I power up my pre (Lexicon) But my speakers have lower sensitivty than yours. But that higher gain means louder noisefloor from the source.
How quiet is it with the XPA7 on, but the Marantz off?
My speakers are around 90/91dB in sensivity.
There is a review with the Marantz that mentions a hiss, but they were using ATI amps which are 34dB (or 28dB on XLR)
You wouldn't want to have a very low gain from av pre to sub, then use the subs own "volume" to boost it. For me I have it quite high from av pre, with the sub set to -11dB. Since the sub has digital processing (SB Ultra 13)
The problem you have is very efficient speakers, with big powerful amps.
Voltage output from av pre is variable AFAIK so that is the maximum, it could be that at 0dB or perhaps at +12db. In my av pre it mentions 6v output at +12dB.
I've been looking into the Marantz AV7702 Mark I or later Mark II when it's reduced down, but the home cinema review regarding hiss with my ATI amps is a concern. He used attenuators to lower the level.
Harrison Labs sell them for about £20 for a pair
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Javs
Minor Hero
Posts: 15
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Post by Javs on Mar 5, 2016 5:45:15 GMT -5
My only real concern was driving the emotiva amp into clipping from from feeding a high voltage input from the pre.
If the Marantz outputs 1.2V and the Emo input is 1.4V then I should be ok? I have some people over on AVS forums telling me to get attenuators purely on the fact that Audyssey is trying to set my mains levels to -12db, but I know this has zero to do with the actual applicaton of XT32 EQ and everything to do with purely trying to sync 0db on the Marantz volume control with 75db reference level volume.
The logic in me says so long as the voltage is not higher than 1.4v then the Emo could not possibly be clipping the signal. My speakers being so efficient should be a total non issue and nothing to do with the signal chain until AFTER the signal leaves the Emo as amplified sound. So would I not have the same clipping or non-clipping scenario as I currently have now if I had speakers of lower sensitivity for eg?
A lot of these thoughts came about from me noticing clipping in the center channel with some films. My speakers are incredibly revealing (102db/watt AMT tweeter and I hear EVERYTHING) However I can ALSO hear that very same clipping at lower volumes and even with headphones on my pc and my desktop PC speakers (Totally different sound path and system to my HT setup.) So the content in those films is truly clipping I gather. Though I am amazed at how bad some of the clipping is and in so many films. Some films dont do it at all no matter how loud I go such as John Wick so I might be encountering bad home video mixes of films.
With the Marantz off and the Emo on I hear absolutely zero hiss from my speakers, its actually incredibly clean. I mean if I put my ear right up to the tweeter I can hear a little but its so minimal if I were even 20cm away I wouldnt hear it so non issue there.
The hiss when trim levels are zero are not even that bad, I can only hear it from the listening position when the Marantz is at max volume, which with trims on zero would be actually around 10db OVER reference level so again probably a non issue.
The subwoofer stuff was just to illustrate my point. I get your point of view with the sub. I think mine is somewhat set up the same way. Knob on the sub is probably about 3 o'clock position to get 75db from the MLP.
So to recap, with the Marantz, if I turn off the 'Source Input Volume' setting as you say (Which I have had off for the past month anyhow) and set the trims in my Marantz to about -3db then the fact that I can hit reference level volume with -12.5db on the Marantz is fine and not a problem? So long as with that situation the Marantz is pushing no more than 1.4v there is no issue at all with this and I should almost definitely not be getting any clipping in the Emo?
Also, sorry but what does Voltage gain mean exactly? I am aware its 29db but what does that mean, its 29db louder than the signal coming in?
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Post by smarties on Mar 5, 2016 5:58:29 GMT -5
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Post by smarties on Mar 5, 2016 7:09:43 GMT -5
From what I understand you want the av pre to be able to meet, or exceed the power amplifier input sensivity for full rated power. A higher gain and lower sensivity for full rated power will help if your AVR is a bit weedy on pre-out section. A amp with high input sensivity ie 2v, with a amp with low gain <28db, with a AVR with poor pre-amp will be a problem, as the preamp will start clipping before reaching full power. read this thread emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/24105tbh I don't think you will have a problem, I bet the AV7702 will probably match 1.4v your amp needs. Try and find some technical bench tests for that av pre. The -12 is another thing though, since your speakers are very sensitive. audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/20281732-audyssey-setup-my-mains-at-12db-audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/21238152-all-levels-at-12dBI'd just run the channel levels, and just calibrate to a higher level, ie 80dB, so for example channel level would be say around -7dB. |
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Javs
Minor Hero
Posts: 15
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Post by Javs on Mar 5, 2016 9:06:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the info and links. I have actually read those Audyssey ones and that review on my amp. The Audyssey links made me realise I need only set the levels with an SPL meter which I had been doing. I don't feel like I have enough of a hiss problem to feel the need to do too much about it. I use RCA too so compared with that review of my Amp I don't know if that changes anything. Would the use of in line attenuators reduce the voltage reaching the Emotiva or does it only reduce the volume and not the voltage? Are they both interlinked? It may be worth looking into them if they can reduce the noise floor a fair bit. Then I could run the Marantz closer to -0db trims. However when I had lowered the source input to -12 and had the speaker trims around -3db I felt like I noticed cleaner sound. It could definitely be a bit of a placebo effect but the sound seemed better and less 'busy'. This link seems to give some interesting insight into how processors behave with LF content based on trim levels... Relating to basically subwoofer headroom but I am sure that theory somewhat applied to regular speakers too. data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/352-measuring-equipment-for-71-ulf-potential/ |
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Post by smarties on Mar 5, 2016 10:59:00 GMT -5
It's possible your source inputs could be too high? generally seems to be with analogue inputs. In my av pre it you can use a feature which monitors analogue inputs and lowers that source input if it detects clipping. Different processor but the problem must exist, I believe a few people have used attenuators between source and pre-amps as the source output is too hot, overloading the pre causing distortion/clipping, so having clipping all the way upstream, you might think it's a amp problem but just clipping input level. Also read a bit ago not a good idea to have output on full on PC as well. "Opens the ANLG IN LVL menu, which is used to adjust the 2-channel analog audio input levels for the selected input. Despite attempts at standardization, analog audio sources have a wide range of levels. To compensate for this, the MC-8 allows independent input level adjustment for each of its stereo analog audio input connectors. Input level adjustment is not available for the 5.1-channel analog audio inp" I don't believe using attenuators limits the max output from your amp. Some info here www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/how_attenuators_work.htmlAlso of note RCA and XLR has different voltage output, plus may have different gain level in each input. For mine, 28dB on RCA, and 34dB. XLR usually has 2x the voltage of RCA. All pretty complicated. |
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Post by smarties on Mar 5, 2016 11:31:22 GMT -5
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Javs
Minor Hero
Posts: 15
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Post by Javs on Mar 5, 2016 21:09:12 GMT -5
It's possible your source inputs could be too high?
Also read a bit ago not a good idea to have output on full on PC as well.
Both are a non issue, I am not using analogue at all. HDMI from the PC. As such when I am bit-streaming its impossible to set any sort of output volume on the PC.
you might think it's a amp problem but just clipping input level.
I would agree with you except bit-streaming supposedly should not clip the input. I could try reducing the 'Source Input Volume' by 3db just for safety sake.
Your speakers are problem of the hiss (sensitive) or possible source?
My speakers are mostly silent with the Marantz off. There is a very slight hum/hiss when my ear is right up against the tweeter. I cannot hear it from 30cm away. This is probably noise in the power line. The hiss increases when the Marantz is powered on, though it still cannot be heard from 30cm away... The processor hiss increases with volume dial position.
You could try a source with a lower noise floor, another poster said going from marantz 8802 to XMC-1 resulted in lower noise floor.
No I am happy with the Marantz, as I said earlier the hiss is a non issue and not something I can hear from the listening position. I think its more likely my 100db/watt speakers than anything else.
Looks like I just need to dish out for some attenuators and see what the sound is like. If it doesn't work then so be it, I can resume what I have been doing so far which is to manually set the levels as per SPL meter to around -3. Problem with how I have been doing this is my rears need to be pushed to +8.5db or so to be of the same level as the mains. This is probably not good for the rears and I wonder how much voltage its pushing to the Emo in the rear channels this way. Havent heard any distortion in the back though like this...
The rear trims will only be temporary though as I am going to have 99db/watt rears and atmos speakers built in the next 3 weeks so that wont be an issue for very long. The rear trim levels will end up at -4db or so compared to my mains when they are built. I will probably adjust it with a meter so that when I am at reference level the Marantz MV will read -10db and then I can lock that volume level in the amp settings so its not possible to pass it. A -4db trim and -10db MV should also in theory mean that I am not sending significant voltage to the XPA-7, yet still getting reference level volume.
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Javs
Minor Hero
Posts: 15
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Post by Javs on Mar 6, 2016 3:31:46 GMT -5
I think I have come to a solution I am going to stick with for now until I can decide on weather I really want attenuators.
I did a levels check within the amp with the internal pink noise generator and found that with -12db trims my mains are at 77db. Which is 2db shy of where Audyssey would have liked to put them had it enough trim range to work with. All my other speakers I boosted by 2db to match the 77db level and ended up in the normal trim range of +/- 3db from the 0 trim position for those speakers so those are acting as normal and would not be in danger of clipping anything due to over trims.
I then set the 'Source Input Level' to -2db then it means when the MV is set to 0db on the Marantz I should in theory be getting 75db reference level out of every speaker.
There is a little audible hiss from the listening position with this though when the MV is at 0db and nothing is playing, but no more or less than there was previously anyhow. Its low enough that I cannot hear it when any content is playing.
I am sure adding attenuators would get rid of that hiss and in theory arrive at exactly the result I have right now, but there seems to be very mixed opinions on those but if I were to go for a set, the 12db ones would likely be perfect so long as it doesn't mess with the dynamics.
Will see what happens, the hiss may get on my nerves because I know its there.
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Post by smarties on Mar 6, 2016 4:55:39 GMT -5
attenuators will add cost as well, about $10-$20 per channel. Also if they degrades sound quality perhaps just add them on side/surrounds/ceiling, leaving front three accepting a bit of hiss.
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Post by moovtune on Mar 7, 2016 12:26:51 GMT -5
Getting back to your XLR connection issue - you're aware of this, from the Marantz manual?
G AV7702mk g BALANCED XLR PRE OUT connector PIN
arrangement H
1 2
3
A GND (Ground)
B HOT (+)
C COLD (–)
The PIN arrangement in this device uses the European method.
In the USA method, B is COLD, and C is HOT.
When connecting a device that utilizes the USA type of PIN arrangement,
replace the B and C plugs on one side of the balanced cable.
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Post by smarties on Mar 7, 2016 13:57:00 GMT -5
Interesting. So what happens if those two are wrong? Any damage? Found picture of my amp (ATI) Pin 1 Ground Pin 2 Positive Pin 3 Negative I bought these. Will I need to flip the pins around? How to tell which is which? Use a continuity tester on a meter? www.ebay.co.uk/itm/151186847778?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=450235128764&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AITI guess if I buy the XMC-1 it'll have USA XLR, but if I buy a av pre from Europe it's most likely European XLR pin arrangement? ok just checked my XLR cables (and checked no shorts ie believe in microphone unbalanced two pins are shorted) pin 1 - pin 1 pin 2 - pin 2 pin 3 - pin 3 |
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Javs
Minor Hero
Posts: 15
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Post by Javs on Mar 7, 2016 21:16:31 GMT -5
Getting back to your XLR connection issue - you're aware of this, from the Marantz manual? G AV7702mk g BALANCED XLR PRE OUT connector PIN arrangement H 1 2 3 A GND (Ground) B HOT (+) C COLD (–) The PIN arrangement in this device uses the European method. In the USA method, B is COLD, and C is HOT. When connecting a device that utilizes the USA type of PIN arrangement, replace the B and C plugs on one side of the balanced cable. I was sure I read somewhere that all Emotiva amps use the European XLR method... Do you know for a fact they don't? I have been trying to find some documentation which says definitively but I cant find it... GOOD point if it does use the US method... But would I not get zero audio from the cables if they were wired to different specs on each end? Or is it similar to speakers being out of phase? Which by the way Audyssey did not report when I first set up the unit. |
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Javs
Minor Hero
Posts: 15
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Post by Javs on Mar 7, 2016 21:45:59 GMT -5
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Post by trifecta3131 on Mar 14, 2016 16:24:09 GMT -5
I can't speak with nearly the audio knowledge of some. But I can say that I have firsthand experience with this particular attenuator issue that Javs was having. My 7.1 (very soon to be 11.1) system is all Klipsch reference speakers (RF 7ii (left & right), RC 64ii (center), RS 62ii (2 surrounds & surround backs), RB 81ii (front height), & CDT 5800-Cii (ceiling - top rear) which are all super efficient according to Klipsch's specs (97db & above). I also run those speakers with the Marantz AV7702mkii as the preamp; the Outlaw 7700 as a power amp for the ear level speakers; and the Emotiva XPA-5 as the other power amp for the 4 height speakers. All 11 speakers are connected from preamp to power amp using XLRs. It's a somewhat smallish room too btw (about 12' wide by 17' long). Here's what I can report ...
A long time ago I read about attenuators & figured I'd give em a shot for two main reasons ...
#1 - Without attenuators Audyssey will trim all of my speakers to -12db, just like what was happening to Javs. I'm sure that's because the power of my system on XLRs is overkill in that smallish room & a normal test tone is simply too loud to fall within the -12db to +12db Audyssey parameters, so it trims it down to -12db, which very well might have been -15db (or whatever db) had the Audyssey system been able to calibrate below -12db. And at first, I thought that's ok, I'll just do what a couple people here (and elsewhere) were suggesting & manually adjust the trims myself (after Audyssey trims them to -12db) by using a SPL meter & some white noise, if need be. And even though that probably would have worked well enough, my second issue was ...
#2 - I'd hear a distinct buzzing when I got within about 1-3 ft away from the RF 7ii. To a lesser extent I could hear a buzz in the other speakers too, but it wasn't quite as pronounced (possibly because the Rf 7ii was the most sensitive @ 101db?). Like many people have said in other forums with these buzzing situations, when you're playing a movie or music, you don't normally notice the buzz from your main listening position because it's pretty far away... until there's a super quiet passage in the movie/music. Then you can kinda/sorta hear it, and it drove me a little nuts considering the amount of $ the system cost me. So, after some internet research at sites just like this, I learned that sometimes you can use inline attenuator pads to reduce the noise being amplified by the source/Marantz/Outlaw/Emotiva gain structure issue & creating the buzz. So that's what I did. I bought some Sescom attenuators & gave them an audition to see if it would solve the buzz AND possibly the Audyssey trim issue (kill 2 birds with one stone).
Now like I said above, I'm by no means an expert in any of this. And if I had to do it all over again, I might have considered buying less efficient speakers (because I'm always torn between the idea of my system being overkill for such a small room vs. the idea that these speakers are meant to be run at a 1.5x the RMS of the speaker which is higher than the typical 100W/channel receivers & hence part of the reason I opted to go w/ 200W/channel using Outlaw & Emotiva). To be honest I still kind of feel like I'm not properly powering the RF 7ii even with 200W, because the RMS is 250W & per Klipsch would need about 300-350W to run it's best. Can I prove that my 200W/channel amps are better than had I simply used 100W/channel, nope. But I can tell you I emailed Klipsch & they were against the idea of running the RF 7iis on 100W/channel amps. They mentioned it could theoretically damage the speakers because they would be under-powered.
But I'm getting off topic. The point of this story is this.... I use 11 inline attenuator pads (1 for each channel) between the Marantz preamp & the Outlaw/Emotiva power amps. I have no scientific tests that can confirm the quality/range/whatever of the music & movies is unaffected by these attenuators. I can only tell you that to my naked ears the attenuators do not harm or degrade the system sound + it solved my buzz & Audyssey trim issues. I can put my ear right up to the tweeter now & I can't really hear any buzz from the power amps. And Audyssey now chooses more appropriate trim levels when I calibrate the system. Instead of every speaker being -12db, they range from about -3db to 0db, if memory serves.
Is it possible that I'm wrong & that attenuators scientifically do affect musical quality by adding another component in the chain & maybe they somehow change the sound ever so slightly? I'll leave that for others more qualified to answer. All I can tell ya is that my system sounds pretty great, so I'm happy. Movies like Top Gun are incredible.
And most attenuators only cost about $10-20 per channel/speaker, so you can always try it out for yourself & see if you like it for your own system. I bought some -10db attenuators, and more recently some -15 db attenuators. I was trying to experiment a little & see if either sounds better than the other, but honestly they mostly seem the same to my ears, I figured maybe if a -10db attneuator was enough to remove my amp buzz then -15db would be even better/clearer, but I really don't know if that's true or not. And I don't know if there's harm in over attenuating. I'm guessing there is, but probably not until Audyssey tries tries setting my trims near +12db (which btw, they were roughly 0db trim with -15db attenuators; and -5db trim with -10db attenuators)
I'd be very curious to know if there's some crazy mathematical formula made by someone that could take into account someone's entire system chain (and the different gains) to see if there's a 'perfect' attenuator level. For example, I experimented with -5, -10, & -15 inline attenuators, but who knows, maybe -12db would have been the perfect mathematical solution, or maybe it's -20, or maybe it doesn't even matter. Someone on the planet probably knows the answer to this...
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Post by Cogito on Mar 14, 2016 16:28:23 GMT -5
I can't speak with nearly the audio knowledge of some. But I can say that I have firsthand experience with this particular attenuator issue that Javs was having. My 7.1 (very soon to be 11.1) system is all Klipsch reference speakers (RF 7ii (left & right), RC 64ii (center), RS 62ii (2 surrounds & surround backs), RB 81ii (front height), & CDT 5800-Cii (ceiling - top rear) which are all super efficient according to Klipsch's specs (97db & above). I also run those speakers with the Marantz AV7702mkii as the preamp; the Outlaw 7700 as a power amp for the ear level speakers; and the Emotiva XPA-5 as the other power amp for the 4 height speakers. All 11 speakers are connected from preamp to power amp using XLRs. It's a somewhat smallish room too btw (about 12' wide by 17' long). Here's what I can report ... A long time ago I read about attenuators & figured I'd give em a shot for two main reasons ... #1 - Without attenuators Audyssey will trim all of my speakers to -12db, just like what was happening to Javs. I'm sure that's because the power of my system on XLRs is overkill in that smallish room & a normal test tone is simply too loud to fall within the -12db to +12db Audyssey parameters, so it trims it down to -12db, which very well might have been -15db (or whatever db) had the Audyssey system been able to calibrate below -12db. And at first, I thought that's ok, I'll just do what a couple people here (and elsewhere) were suggesting & manually adjust the trims myself (after Audyssey trims them to -12db) by using a SPL meter & some white noise, if need be. And even though that probably would have worked well enough, my second issue was ... #2 - I'd hear a distinct buzzing when I got within about 1-3 ft away from the RF 7ii. To a lesser extent I could hear a buzz in the other speakers too, but it wasn't quite as pronounced (possibly because the Rf 7ii was the most sensitive @ 101db?). Like many people have said in other forums with these buzzing situations, when you're playing a movie or music, you don't normally notice the buzz from your main listening position because it's pretty far away... until there's a super quiet passage in the movie/music. Then you can kinda/sorta hear it, and it drove me a little nuts considering the amount of $ the system cost me. So, after some internet research at sites just like this, I learned that sometimes you can use inline attenuator pads to reduce the noise being amplified by the source/Marantz/Outlaw/Emotiva gain structure issue & creating the buzz. So that's what I did. I bought some Sescom attenuators & gave them an audition to see if it would solve the buzz AND possibly the Audyssey trim issue (kill 2 birds with one stone).
Now like I said above, I'm by no means an expert in any of this. And if I had to do it all over again, I might have considered buying less efficient speakers (because I'm always torn between the idea of my system being overkill for such a small room vs. the idea that these speakers are meant to be run at a 1.5x the RMS of the speaker which is higher than the typical 100W/channel receivers & hence part of the reason I opted to go w/ 200W/channel using Outlaw & Emotiva). To be honest I still kind of feel like I'm not properly powering the RF 7ii even with 200W, because the RMS is 250W & per Klipsch would need about 300-350W to run it's best. Can I prove that my 200W/channel amps are better than had I simply used 100W/channel, nope. But I can tell you I emailed Klipsch & they were against the idea of running the RF 7iis on 100W/channel amps. They mentioned it could theoretically damage the speakers because they would be under-powered.
But I'm getting off topic. The point of this story is this.... I use 11 inline attenuator pads (1 for each channel) between the Marantz preamp & the Outlaw/Emotiva power amps. I have no scientific tests that can confirm the quality/range/whatever of the music & movies is unaffected by these attenuators. I can only tell you that to my naked ears the attenuators do not harm or degrade the system sound + it solved my buzz & Audyssey trim issues. I can put my ear right up to the tweeter now & I can't really hear any buzz from the power amps. And Audyssey now chooses more appropriate trim levels when I calibrate the system. Instead of every speaker being -12db, they range from about -3db to 0db, if memory serves.
Is it possible that I'm wrong & that attenuators scientifically do affect musical quality by adding another component in the chain & maybe they somehow change the sound ever so slightly? I'll leave that for others more qualified to answer. All I can tell ya is that my system sounds pretty great, so I'm happy. Movies like Top Gun are incredible.
And most attenuators only cost about $10-20 per channel/speaker, so you can always try it out for yourself & see if you like it for your own system. I bought some -10db attenuators, and more recently some -15 db attenuators. I was trying to experiment a little & see if either sounds better than the other, but honestly they mostly seem the same to my ears, I figured maybe if a -10db attneuator was enough to remove my amp buzz then -15db would be even better/clearer, but I really don't know if that's true or not. And I don't know if there's harm in over attenuating. I'm guessing there is, but probably not until Audyssey tries tries setting my trims near +12db (which btw, they were roughly 0db trim with -15db attenuators; and -5db trim with -10db attenuators)
I'd be very curious to know if there's some crazy mathematical formula made by someone that could take into account someone's entire system chain (and the different gains) to see if there's a 'perfect' attenuator level. For example, I experimented with -5, -10, & -15 inline attenuators, but who knows, maybe -12db would have been the perfect mathematical solution, or maybe it's -20, or maybe it doesn't even matter. Someone on the planet probably knows the answer to this... I do NOT envy your ears.  |
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