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Post by geebo on Mar 14, 2016 16:33:33 GMT -5
No, I didn't miss the response. That was a general response. My question was in reference to the particular situation that he was experiencing, i.e. he was listening while typing. Just trying to understand the variables. He said: "As to why you are having an issue with Tidal also, I have zero issues with it so based on what Keith says - you should not either. I am listening to Tidal right now through my Sonos to my XMC-1 and there is zero sound between tracks." We have Keith who says that it's not a defective processor. We have folks who are using the same sources as I and don't have the problem. So either I'm making it up or I have a defective unit or the situations are similar but not the same. I don't think anyone thinks you are making it up. I don't use Sonos so can't comment on your specific case only to say I get silence between tracks with physical discs or playing through my Oppo from a connected hard drive or when streaming with jRiver. But I'm sure klinemj will respond to your question soon. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Mar 14, 2016 17:42:01 GMT -5
Already responded - about the same time as Geebo did. I have tried every way I can to get my system to make noise...any noise...between tracks. And it simply won't do it. Dead silent coming via Sonos from my music library (all ripped using JRiver to FLAC) and from Tidal. Note that I have also tried pushing tunes from my HTPC via USB to the XMC-1 with JRiver as the interface, and again - no issues.
Mark
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 14, 2016 17:45:40 GMT -5
Already responded - about the same time as Geebo did. I have tried every way I can to get my system to make noise...any noise...between tracks. And it simply won't do it. Dead silent coming via Sonos from my music library (all ripped using JRiver to FLAC) and from Tidal. Note that I have also tried pushing tunes from my HTPC via USB to the XMC-1 with JRiver as the interface, and again - no issues. Mark Have you tried increasing time between songs with jriver? That induced the clicks for me while using stereo and Dirac. Also, I was using HDMI input |
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Post by tonygeno on Mar 14, 2016 17:50:03 GMT -5
Already responded - about the same time as Geebo did. I have tried every way I can to get my system to make noise...any noise...between tracks. And it simply won't do it. Dead silent coming via Sonos from my music library (all ripped using JRiver to FLAC) and from Tidal. Note that I have also tried pushing tunes from my HTPC via USB to the XMC-1 with JRiver as the interface, and again - no issues. Mark So then is my XMC-1 defective or did you get a particularly excellent sample? Or is this just a mystery that can't be solved? |
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Post by klinemj on Mar 14, 2016 18:21:52 GMT -5
Already responded - about the same time as Geebo did. I have tried every way I can to get my system to make noise...any noise...between tracks. And it simply won't do it. Dead silent coming via Sonos from my music library (all ripped using JRiver to FLAC) and from Tidal. Note that I have also tried pushing tunes from my HTPC via USB to the XMC-1 with JRiver as the interface, and again - no issues. Mark Have you tried increasing time between songs with jriver? That induced the clicks for me while using stereo and Dirac. Also, I was using HDMI input No...I have not tried that...and other than trying to recreate someone else's problem, I can't see why to do that. And, if someone already knows that would create an issue, I can't see why one would do that. Seems foolish to mess with success. Mark |
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Post by klinemj on Mar 14, 2016 18:24:03 GMT -5
Already responded - about the same time as Geebo did. I have tried every way I can to get my system to make noise...any noise...between tracks. And it simply won't do it. Dead silent coming via Sonos from my music library (all ripped using JRiver to FLAC) and from Tidal. Note that I have also tried pushing tunes from my HTPC via USB to the XMC-1 with JRiver as the interface, and again - no issues. Mark So then is my XMC-1 defective or did you get a particularly excellent sample? Or is this just a mystery that can't be solved? As previously noted, I think you have a problem with your collection from iTunes, and I suggest you reach out to Apple and SONOS on that before you blame the XMC. As to why you have an issue with Tidal, unless you can help me recreate it on mine, I would say it is a mystery. Other than that, consider a redo on your XMC FW. Mark |
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 14, 2016 18:26:18 GMT -5
Have you tried increasing time between songs with jriver? That induced the clicks for me while using stereo and Dirac. Also, I was using HDMI input No...I have not tried that...and other than trying to recreate someone else's problem, I can't see why to do that. And, if someone already knows that would create an issue, I can't see why one would do that. Seems foolish to mess with success. Mark You stated you could not get your system to make a noise as if you were willing to try and see if you can accomplish the phenomenon. It is not that tough to do, nor is it particularly difficult to change back. I don't believe it will break your system. If you cannot change options without loss of your success your system may indeed be fragile |
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Post by klinemj on Mar 14, 2016 18:30:44 GMT -5
No...I have not tried that...and other than trying to recreate someone else's problem, I can't see why to do that. And, if someone already knows that would create an issue, I can't see why one would do that. Seems foolish to mess with success. Mark You stated you could not get your system to make a noise as if you were willing to try and see if you can accomplish the phenomenon. It is not that tough to do, nor is it particularly difficult to change back. I don't believe it will break your system. If you cannot change options without loss of your success your system may indeed be fragile Sorry...I just cannot see any logical reason to increase time between songs to a point that it causes an issue....especially when we know that doing this in some softwares may create a digital silence that just begs an issue to happen. After all, that would be like...well...creating test tones known to create issues even though the situation is not ever created in a typical real world situation just to prove it causes an issue. I can't understand the logic in that. I am more than willing to try things within "normal use" but to go outside that seems silly. Mark |
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Post by tonygeno on Mar 14, 2016 18:32:17 GMT -5
No...I have not tried that...and other than trying to recreate someone else's problem, I can't see why to do that. And, if someone already knows that would create an issue, I can't see why one would do that. Seems foolish to mess with success. Mark You stated you could not get your system to make a noise as if you were willing to try and see if you can accomplish the phenomenon. It is not that tough to do, nor is it particularly difficult to change back. I don't believe it will break your system. If you cannot change options without loss of your success your system may indeed be fragile So my 1800 ALACs ripped via iTunes weren't done right, even though several other receivers I've had in my system have never given me this problem? Since the XMC-1 is on its way back to Emotiva, I will bow out of this discussion. Enjoy! |
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Post by klinemj on Mar 14, 2016 18:34:54 GMT -5
Sorry about your loss. The XMC is a fine piece of gear sonically. With some troubleshooting, you might have found it.
Good luck in the future.
Mark
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 14, 2016 18:36:49 GMT -5
You stated you could not get your system to make a noise as if you were willing to try and see if you can accomplish the phenomenon. It is not that tough to do, nor is it particularly difficult to change back. I don't believe it will break your system. If you cannot change options without loss of your success your system may indeed be fragile Sorry...I just cannot see any logical reason to increase time between songs to a point that it causes an issue....especially when we know that doing this in some softwares may create a digital silence that just begs an issue to happen. After all, that would be like...well...creating test tones known to create issues even though the situation is not ever created in a typical real world situation just to prove it causes an issue. I can't understand the logic in that. I am more than willing to try things within "normal use" but to go outside that seems silly. Mark If it is a setting in jriver would that not suggest normal use for at least some people? |
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 14, 2016 18:39:20 GMT -5
Sorry about your loss. The XMC is a fine piece of gear sonically. With some troubleshooting, you might have found it. Good luck in the future. Mark Yup, definitely a problem with his troubleshooting technique |
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Post by klinemj on Mar 14, 2016 18:41:07 GMT -5
Sorry...I just cannot see any logical reason to increase time between songs to a point that it causes an issue....especially when we know that doing this in some softwares may create a digital silence that just begs an issue to happen. After all, that would be like...well...creating test tones known to create issues even though the situation is not ever created in a typical real world situation just to prove it causes an issue. I can't understand the logic in that. I am more than willing to try things within "normal use" but to go outside that seems silly. Mark If it is a setting in jriver would that not suggest normal use for at least some people? It is not normal for me...and...if you already know it causes an issue, it befuddles me to ponder why you would try it. And, in the case of the OP's issue...he is not using JRiver, so trying this would not help him troubleshoot his issue. And, I can find no equivalent within SONOS. If you like to try that kind of thing to prove you can make a system fail, you must also enjoy banging your head against the wall. No offense intended, but it seems like a fair analogy. Mark |
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Post by klinemj on Mar 14, 2016 19:03:17 GMT -5
Yup, definitely a problem with his troubleshooting technique Some of us were trying to help him by trying to understand his problem more and offering relevant suggestions. Your suggestion of me increasing time in JRiver didn't help him...he's not using JRiver. So...if there's a problem with troubleshooting technique...well, never mind. Mark |
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Post by meistereder on Sept 1, 2017 7:26:29 GMT -5
I can tell you for certain that the output "hard" muting on the XMC-1 is activated when the XMC-1 is turning on and turning off, it is operated by "physically" shorting the output to ground, and it does NOT enable between songs or tracks. I can also tell you that the DACs we used in the XMC-1 do in fact have an option to "mute on repeated digital zeros" - and that we have DISABLED that option. I can also confirm that, at some point in the signal path, digital signals are still muted under some conditions when a series of digital zeros are received. This happens somewhere inside the XMC-1's DSP code - which we didn't write and have no direct control over. (And the reason that most of you never encounter this is that, most of the time, a digital data stream will never contain true zeros rather than dithered silence. However, we have no way of knowing, for example, if Sonos has chosen to fill blank spots with digital zeros when certain settings are in effect.) You will also find that many advanced players have options that may address this issue. (For example, when you RIP CDs with jRiver, it has an option to include a specified number of milliseconds of silence at the beginning of each track.) However, to return to the original subject, since this is a detail of how the XMC-1 responds to a certain specific structure in the digital audio data, it is neither something you should expect a different XMC-1 to do differently (under exactly the same conditions), nor something that we can "fix" either in your current XMC-1, or by giving you a new/different one. We do continue to review and improve the code that runs the XMC-1 whenever we see an opportunity to do so, so we may in fact eventually succeed in further reducing such issues, or even eliminating them entirely, but in the mean time we can't simply "fix" it... and we have no hardware update which will make it go away. I'm using Sonos and have the "slight noise at beginning of songs". Not on all recordings/albums, but with many. My question, Keith: Could the coming "Dolby Atmos/DTS:X upgrade" (which requires the "HDMI 2.0b board", I understand) be the "hardware update" that makes the problem "go away"? |
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Post by LCSeminole on Sept 1, 2017 8:27:52 GMT -5
I can tell you for certain that the output "hard" muting on the XMC-1 is activated when the XMC-1 is turning on and turning off, it is operated by "physically" shorting the output to ground, and it does NOT enable between songs or tracks. I can also tell you that the DACs we used in the XMC-1 do in fact have an option to "mute on repeated digital zeros" - and that we have DISABLED that option. I can also confirm that, at some point in the signal path, digital signals are still muted under some conditions when a series of digital zeros are received. This happens somewhere inside the XMC-1's DSP code - which we didn't write and have no direct control over. (And the reason that most of you never encounter this is that, most of the time, a digital data stream will never contain true zeros rather than dithered silence. However, we have no way of knowing, for example, if Sonos has chosen to fill blank spots with digital zeros when certain settings are in effect.) You will also find that many advanced players have options that may address this issue. (For example, when you RIP CDs with jRiver, it has an option to include a specified number of milliseconds of silence at the beginning of each track.) However, to return to the original subject, since this is a detail of how the XMC-1 responds to a certain specific structure in the digital audio data, it is neither something you should expect a different XMC-1 to do differently (under exactly the same conditions), nor something that we can "fix" either in your current XMC-1, or by giving you a new/different one. We do continue to review and improve the code that runs the XMC-1 whenever we see an opportunity to do so, so we may in fact eventually succeed in further reducing such issues, or even eliminating them entirely, but in the mean time we can't simply "fix" it... and we have no hardware update which will make it go away. I'm using Sonos and have the "slight noise at beginning of songs". Not on all recordings/albums, but with many. My question, Keith: Could the coming "Dolby Atmos/DTS:X upgrade" (which requires the "HDMI 2.0b board", I understand) be the "hardware update" that makes the problem "go away"? As you've read above, they have little or no control over the DSP code, and since a new Atmos board would have new DSP chips, then a hardware upgrade could easily have an effect on this situation one way or the other. So yes it could, but this is a definite wait and see. |
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 1, 2017 10:26:27 GMT -5
"XMC-1 Slight noise at beginning of songs"
This issue (at least in my case) has been resolved satisfactorily, all things considered.
I'm no tech guy, but it seems to me the REAL problem to date has been the industry, "shaking hands" with each other ALA HDMI.
At times I DO long for great sound, arrived at by simpler means.
Bill
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Post by AudioHTIT on Sept 1, 2017 10:51:31 GMT -5
"XMC-1 Slight noise at beginning of songs" This issue (at least in my case) has been resolved satisfactorily, all things considered. I'm no tech guy, but it seems to me the REAL problem to date has been the industry, "shaking hands" with each other ALA HDMI. At times I DO long for great sound, arrived at by simpler means. Bill Yes, I have had the 'popping' sound and HDMI was/is the culprit, I worked around it using TOSLink from my mini for audio. Anyone trying to troubleshoot this should list what kind of source AND connection they are using, without it it's apples and oranges. |
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Post by heroesunplugged on Sept 18, 2017 2:20:26 GMT -5
I'm experiencing the slight drop out/hiccup at the beginning of songs and can hear random clicks, similar to low-level static discharge between tracks on CD. I'm using the Toslink from a Pioneer Elite PD-F19 CD changer. When watching anything on Netflix the sound that accompanies the logo at the beginning is basically cut in half. It doesn't have noise through the analog inputs. I usually listen in Stereo Reference, haven't used Dirac at all, and have only set distance, level, and crossover for the subwoofer. Updated from FW 3.1 to 4.1, hoping that it might correct it, but it hasn't.
Never had this noise or dropouts occur with Onkyo or Pioneer receivers. Have had HDMI issues with Onkyo. While the sound is stellar through the XMC-1, it is an annoyance that an audiophile grade piece of equipment has quirks, that much older, less expensive, and dated receivers don't. I'd rather work around HDMI than have to avoid audio inputs due to faulty code, hardware, or dsp chips. We're talking about PCM, not a relatively new technology.
Wonder if there is a buffer setting that isn't being used properly inside the XMC-1? Can somebody reach out to the chip manufacturer so they can take a look at it? I realize that Emotiva might be apprehensive about reaching out to a competitor, but can you contact another manufacturer and see if they are willing to give some advice? Somebody mentioned that Anthem had a similar problem with a couple of their lines too.
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Post by heroesunplugged on Sept 18, 2017 3:01:10 GMT -5
Btw, It doesn't happen with every disc.
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