LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,849
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 30, 2016 15:58:57 GMT -5
I really doubt emotiva will drop US direct sales actually high end brands are going to the emotiva way with a hybrid model, see Mcintosh, cary audio and others I've noticed this as well, even companies like Klipsch are selling their speakers direct from the factory. |
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Post by rbk123 on Mar 30, 2016 16:19:21 GMT -5
I've noticed this as well, even companies like Klipsch are selling their speakers direct from the factory. They better, or they'll continue to see their sales shrink by customers going to the Salks/Tektons/Emotivas of the world. More of them are going to continue popping up, not less. |
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guitarforlife
Sensei
Just another busy day in Northern Wisconsin.
Posts: 947
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Post by guitarforlife on Mar 30, 2016 16:29:02 GMT -5
I mean I could go on all day about price hikes like when I could buy a new 4X4 pickup for $10,000. and now they start at $60,000. But ware will that get me? The price is the price. I don't think you're "getting it". It's not just the price, it's the second rate treatment of international customers. There is "class 1" customer (all hail USA) and the "class 2" customer "you're definitely not American". So; we don't get access to secret sales, we can't buy directly online etc. Why should Emotiva care where we live (other than shipping costs which we pay for)? A customer is a customer, and we are all virtual unless you pick it up directly. Seems kind of odd to dump all over a bunch of potential customers, but then I'm not a businessman. Then you get the equally odd scenario which I had a few months ago. I wanted to buy a control freak, but Emotiva had none in stock. My local distributor had none in stock. But I found one in a distributor in the USA, but he was legally unable to ship me the control freak, I had to go through my own local distributor who won't have any in stock for months because Emotiva doesn't have anymore available. Why does this matter? Because Emotiva has lost a fair amount of business from me already. I own 8 Adam speakers, those were all purchased right when I wanted to buy stealths or airmotivs during a sale but Emotiva said "you're not american, no sale". My couple thousand dollars went to Adam instead. And instead of buying a control freak, I bought my "tc electronics" volume control online from a vendor who loved to take my visa and ship it to me across the border. I'm not saying all this to whine / complain, and I don't hold a grudge. If Emotiva has a product that I can buy that matches what I want at the price I want, then I'll do it. But you have to admit there is some odd practices going on here with respect to international customers. Anyway, I hope by now Emotiva has at least heard our complaints so I'll stop going on about it. OK, I get it. Don't you think we have the same thing here? I love silver face audio components. I wanted to buy a silver face Marantz CD6004 and a silver face pm8004. But guess what they were only available in other country's they were not in the U.S. for sale and for me to buy one would have cost me a fortune at the time. Did I get mad and say Marantz is against the American consumer? NO I bought the black faced components that was available to me. I'm glad I did they are great pieces. When the Queen 18 LP box set first came out I could only buy it though a UK web site the shipping was $200.00. Did I Hate Queen because they were not available for sale by any US distributer ? NO. this is just not prudent thinking. I have read page after page with this. Good God. Emo was good enough when they were cheaper but not now? How about the same animosity for your own company's that build amps but are expensive Like Bryston. The B4 is like 4k do I complain the bad Canadian company does not want my business. No, I looked on Ebay for a used one and there are quite a few for under 1,000. This is old redundant and I'm done. I can tell there are not many here that are self employed. |
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Post by geebo on Mar 30, 2016 16:30:27 GMT -5
I really doubt emotiva will drop US direct sales actually high end brands are going to the emotiva way with a hybrid model, see Mcintosh, cary audio and others I've noticed this as well, even companies like Klipsch are selling their speakers direct from the factory. Velodyne is another example. |
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Post by copperpipe on Mar 30, 2016 17:05:12 GMT -5
I don't think you're "getting it". It's not just the price, it's the second rate treatment of international customers. There is "class 1" customer (all hail USA) and the "class 2" customer "you're definitely not American". So; we don't get access to secret sales, we can't buy directly online etc. Why should Emotiva care where we live (other than shipping costs which we pay for)? A customer is a customer, and we are all virtual unless you pick it up directly. Seems kind of odd to dump all over a bunch of potential customers, but then I'm not a businessman. Then you get the equally odd scenario which I had a few months ago. I wanted to buy a control freak, but Emotiva had none in stock. My local distributor had none in stock. But I found one in a distributor in the USA, but he was legally unable to ship me the control freak, I had to go through my own local distributor who won't have any in stock for months because Emotiva doesn't have anymore available. Why does this matter? Because Emotiva has lost a fair amount of business from me already. I own 8 Adam speakers, those were all purchased right when I wanted to buy stealths or airmotivs during a sale but Emotiva said "you're not american, no sale". My couple thousand dollars went to Adam instead. And instead of buying a control freak, I bought my "tc electronics" volume control online from a vendor who loved to take my visa and ship it to me across the border. I'm not saying all this to whine / complain, and I don't hold a grudge. If Emotiva has a product that I can buy that matches what I want at the price I want, then I'll do it. But you have to admit there is some odd practices going on here with respect to international customers. Anyway, I hope by now Emotiva has at least heard our complaints so I'll stop going on about it. OK, I get it. Don't you think we have the same thing here? I love silver face audio components. I wanted to buy a silver face Marantz CD6004 and a silver face pm8004. But guess what they were only available in other country's they were not in the U.S. for sale and for me to buy one would have cost me a fortune at the time. Did I get mad and say Marantz is against the American consumer? NO I bought the black faced components that was available to me. I'm glad I did they are great pieces. When the Queen 18 LP box set first came out I could only buy it though a UK web site the shipping was $200.00. Did I Hate Queen because they were not available for sale by any US distributer ? NO. this is just not prudent thinking. I have read page after page with this. Good God. Emo was good enough when they were cheaper but not now? How about the same animosity for your own company's that build amps but are expensive Like Bryston. The B4 is like 4k do I complain the bad Canadian company does not want my business. No, I looked on Ebay for a used one and there are quite a few for under 1,000. This is old redundant and I'm done. I can tell there are not many here that are self employed. Ah, but you see Emotiva was supposed to be above all that nonsense. Now it appears they're becoming like every other audio manufacturer. That's the point. Why purchase from Emotiva then if there is no difference? Surely it can't be Emotiva's intent to drive all their international customers into other stores? And marantz (bryston too??) were never ID dealers to begin with, totally different setup. Emotiva is _changing_, for the worse, and that is what concerns us and prompts us to complain. I'm not sure where you get "animosity" from either. Every international customer here and in the recently locked thread has been polite, outlining our concerns and frustrations. I've noticed a bunch of other people willfully misinterpreting our complaints though (give us all a car with our purchase etc etc) (Funny you should mention "self-employed", I believe that applies to myself.) I too am done (Ok I said that before but I mean it this time!) |
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Post by Jim on Mar 30, 2016 17:08:27 GMT -5
Back to news about THE XPA Gen-3.....
Or at least I can hope!
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 30, 2016 17:14:19 GMT -5
Regarding the plight of international customers - I guess the bottom line is that it is what it is.
The points raised by the international customers are good ones and have been made crystal clear but really the only one who can address them in a valid manner is Emotiva itself.
Given the maze of laws dictating international commerce (as Boom found out when he purchased his McIntosh from someone in Canada), it can get very confusing and also be nonsensical and arbitrary. But all that needs to be addressed by Emotiva because the rest of us are just a bunch of guys sitting around a barrel shooting the breeze.
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guitarforlife
Sensei
Just another busy day in Northern Wisconsin.
Posts: 947
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Post by guitarforlife on Mar 30, 2016 17:28:26 GMT -5
OK, I get it. Don't you think we have the same thing here? I love silver face audio components. I wanted to buy a silver face Marantz CD6004 and a silver face pm8004. But guess what they were only available in other country's they were not in the U.S. for sale and for me to buy one would have cost me a fortune at the time. Did I get mad and say Marantz is against the American consumer? NO I bought the black faced components that was available to me. I'm glad I did they are great pieces. When the Queen 18 LP box set first came out I could only buy it though a UK web site the shipping was $200.00. Did I Hate Queen because they were not available for sale by any US distributer ? NO. this is just not prudent thinking. I have read page after page with this. Good God. Emo was good enough when they were cheaper but not now? How about the same animosity for your own company's that build amps but are expensive Like Bryston. The B4 is like 4k do I complain the bad Canadian company does not want my business. No, I looked on Ebay for a used one and there are quite a few for under 1,000. This is old redundant and I'm done. I can tell there are not many here that are self employed. Ah, but you see Emotiva was supposed to be above all that nonsense. Now it appears they're becoming like every other audio manufacturer. That's the point. Why purchase from Emotiva then if there is no difference? Surely it can't be Emotiva's intent to drive all their international customers into other stores? And marantz (bryston too??) were never ID dealers to begin with, totally different setup. Emotiva is _changing_, for the worse, and that is what concerns us and prompts us to complain. I'm not sure where you get "animosity" from either. Every international customer here and in the recently locked thread has been polite, outlining our concerns and frustrations. I've noticed a bunch of other people willfully misinterpreting our complaints though (give us all a car with our purchase etc etc) (Funny you should mention "self-employed", I believe that applies to myself.) I too am done (Ok I said that before but I mean it this time!) And have you not made a policy that some may not like but stuck with it because you feel you need/have to for your business sake? I bet you have and if you tell me other it would be hard to believe. I do it every day and have people turn around and walk out. But They ask me to do things I do not do. Nor am I equip for. Every businesses does to a certain extent No matter what you do you can not be all things to all people. |
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Javs
Minor Hero
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Post by Javs on Mar 30, 2016 17:40:21 GMT -5
I live in Australia here... Considering my XPA-7 blew up in sparks and smoke, I was hell glad I actually got it from a local Australian distributor.
I would have been stuck with the cost (Both Ways) of returning a faulty unit which all liability had I been in the US would have been at the feet of Emotiva.
Luckily all it took was a phone call and the local distro organised a new one for me. Simple swap out.
THAT is the reason I will buy local. Importing complex high voltage goods is a dangerous game.
The price I ended up paying for my unit at the time was almost literally exactly what the Australia dollar equivalent would have been after shipping and GST additions.
However. Given Emotiva ships these things to International distributors by the container, I would have wished the pricing here was not as high as the cost of us importing the units ourselves and slapping a couple hundred bucks on top.
You would have thought there was more savings to be made, given that, firstly, Emotiva would be selling units to wholesalers at a reduced cost, secondly, the overall shipping cost to get the units to Australia BY SEA would have been spread out over a much higher number of units thus orders of magnitude cheaper than we pay, but, we still end up paying the 'Australia Tax' on the items sold locally, which the general rule of thumb is, cost more than any other person anywhere in the world to purchase.
The RRP of an XPA-7 here was $3,000.
I shudder at the thought of how much a Gen 3 XPA-7 will be locally... $4,000? Still worth it? NO.
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 30, 2016 17:56:43 GMT -5
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Post by rbk123 on Mar 30, 2016 18:07:19 GMT -5
Only 2? What, no biamping?
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 30, 2016 18:09:10 GMT -5
Only 2? What, no biamping? Well, I could be cheap at times...  |
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Post by Gary Cook on Mar 30, 2016 18:35:30 GMT -5
I shudder at the thought of how much a Gen 3 XPA-7 will be locally... $4,000? Still worth it? NO. The XPA-7 Gen 3 price on the Final Link web site was listed as $A3,399 last week. But I noticed that there is no price currently listed. Maybe they are negotiating with Emotiva based on the new reduced $US100 lower price. Some quick maths, at the current exchange rate $US100 is around SA139. The GST at 10% should be around $14 less. If they maintain their $'s margin then the "new" price should be $A3,399 - $A139 - $A14 = $A3,246. If they maintain their % margin then it should be less. Let's see how close I am. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Jim on Mar 30, 2016 18:37:38 GMT -5
Has anyone purchased the XPA Gen 3? Anybody thinking of it?
I can't keep track with as far off the rails as this thread has gone.
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Post by msamblanet on Mar 30, 2016 19:22:20 GMT -5
Has anyone purchased the XPA Gen 3? Anybody thinking of it? I pre-ordered an XPA-7 G3 and will be doing a comparison with my XPA-5 G2 and my older (slightly flaky) Cinepro amp... If any Emo junkies in Northern VA want to join the "fun" of listening to random tracks while randomly moving cables around, drop me a PM and I'll keep in touch for when it finally ships/arrives). - M |
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klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,086
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Post by klinemj on Mar 30, 2016 19:44:38 GMT -5
Has anyone purchased the XPA Gen 3? Anybody thinking of it? I can't keep track with as far off the rails as this thread has gone. I look forward to the reviews on its sound, for sure! (A lot more interesting than endless, repeated debates on cost. Is it Groundhog Day, Bill Murray style?) Mark |
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Post by Jim on Mar 30, 2016 20:05:54 GMT -5
Has anyone purchased the XPA Gen 3? Anybody thinking of it? I pre-ordered an XPA-7 G3 and will be doing a comparison with my XPA-5 G2 and my older (slightly flaky) Cinepro amp... If any Emo junkies in Northern VA want to join the "fun" of listening to random tracks while randomly moving cables around, drop me a PM and I'll keep in touch for when it finally ships/arrives). - M The 7 channel... Nice! I wish I was closer, that sounds like a great time! |
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Post by chicagorspec on Mar 30, 2016 21:28:42 GMT -5
I pre-ordered an XPA-7 G3 and will be doing a comparison with my XPA-5 G2 and my older (slightly flaky) Cinepro amp... If any Emo junkies in Northern VA want to join the "fun" of listening to random tracks while randomly moving cables around, drop me a PM and I'll keep in touch for when it finally ships/arrives). - M The 7 channel... Nice! I wish I was closer, that sounds like a great time! Me, too. Bummer you aren't closer. Enjoy the amp, the listening comparison and thanks for the invite! |
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 31, 2016 9:17:39 GMT -5
Has anyone purchased the XPA Gen 3? Anybody thinking of it? I pre-ordered an XPA-7 G3 and will be doing a comparison with my XPA-5 G2 and my older (slightly flaky) Cinepro amp... If any Emo junkies in Northern VA want to join the "fun" of listening to random tracks while randomly moving cables around, drop me a PM and I'll keep in touch for when it finally ships/arrives). - M What speakers will you be using? |
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Post by Dan Laufman on Mar 31, 2016 9:58:21 GMT -5
Hi all,
Wow, I'm not sure I understand where all of this negative thinking comes from.
I don't believe that the accusations being made are really fair, nor do they reflect the realities of our business practices. And they certainly do not reflect our feeling towards our international clients.
I believe that Javs experience more closely relates to reality for our International customers. That is to say, that after you have to pay all of the shipping expenses, duties, local taxes, etc. you end up in about the same place as if you had bought it from us and went through all of the hassle of bringing it in country. Now, I know a lot of International clients like to play with valuations to reduce duties, etc. and bring the goods in via creative methods, but we are a business and we cannot bend the rules this way. The other very important thing to bring up is AFTER sales support. Had Javs purchased the unit in the USA and shipped it to Australia directly he would have had a real problem. We were seeing this happen and we did not like the position this put our clients in, or us.
Javs had a problem with a locally purchased unit, and his unit was replaced with little or no drama. He purchased it through our international partner and was taken care of. This is they way our international clients deserve to be treated. This is why we have decided to have professionals represent our brand in countries outside of the USA. We're too small to have offices all over the world. Maybe someday, but for now this is being done so that you receive better service and support. It is not done to pad our pockets; you must know that. The distributer has to purchase goods from us, pay for them, ship them to their location, and then sell to the end user, and support them after the sale. And yes, he deserves and needs to make a profit. You'll want him to be there to take care of you in the future!
Now, I know that exchange rate exacerbate cost issues, but this is out out of our control. Sometimes the ball swings the other way and our international clients make a killing.
We will continue to design and produce high value electronics and related products with the goal of bringing unprecedented value to our customers. We care deeply about all of our clients worldwide and working to bring you products in a competitive and professional manner.
By the way, we have new amplifiers, preamplifiers, processors, and loudspeaker models coming out soon in our new BasX line, and they are priced from US$149.00 and top out at US$699.00. They will absolutely blow your minds in terms of value for cost. No one will be accusing us of being greed heads when they see these new models. They are simply amazing new products. Please keep the faith, we're on your side.
Cheers,
Big Dan
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